Immigration Reform

[TheChamp]

Indeed, slavery too had a beneficial impact on our economy: none the less you're failing to comprehend your own report which states explicitly that the taxes coming from immigrants are actually coming form their EMPLOYERS who, again, would have to pay those taxes regardless of who they hired. If they hired LEGAL citizens, the taxes would be higher.

Additionally, the effects of low cost production are negligible, we're right next door to Mexico and there is no import tax.

Also, your reports are based on filings by companies who hire illegal immigrants, meaning when they lie and say they pay $8.50 an hour, it really means they paid half that and only documented half of his labor. A common-place scam, even with 7/11 employees, inevitable in a system which promotes a second class of citizens.

[RickSp]

Champ, you amaze me. You either have not read anything I linked to or you don't have clue as to what the words and numbers mean. Your statements bear no relation to reality. Have a nice day.

[TheChamp]

Your own articles say it repeatedly, illegal immigrants ONLY pay three types of taxes: property (via rent, which is low), sales, and PAYROLL tax (meaning wages docked from their pay by their employer).
There is NO reason to ASSUME that this money wouldn't still be paid if the job was given to a legal resident, period. Repeating yourself inanely won't undo that simple fact.

Myth #6: Undocumented immigrants do not pay taxes.

Undocumented immigrants pay the same real estate taxes—whether they own homes or taxes are passed through to rents—and the same sales and other consumption taxes as everyone else. The majority of state and local costs of schooling and other services are funded by these taxes. Additionally, the U.S. Social Security Administration has estimated that three quarters of undocumented immigrants pay payroll taxes, and that they contribute $6-7 billion in Social Security funds that they will be unable to claim (Porter 2005).

Undocumented Immigrants: Myths and Reality

[Zeebadee]

And while I hate to introduce reality into your xenophobia, the states with the highest levels of illegal immigration have historically had among the lowest unemployment rates.

And I hate to introduce facts into your deceit, but California rates among the highest in both categories.

Respond if you wish, but it's not really necessary. You've become so rude and obnoxious I won't be reading anything you care to contribute anymore. I'm only surprised your hyperbole and vitriole hasn't gotten you banned.

[rmnunez]

A Divorce?

When the lame duck ends, Chicago congressman Gutiérrez and his movement allies will ask for a divorce —from the Democratic Party, from the entire lawmaking process. To hear Gutiérrez tell it, Hispanic leaders are about to stage a full-tilt campaign of direct action, like the African-American civil-rights movement of the 1960s. There will be protests, marches, sit-ins —what César Chávez might have called going rogue. The movement will operate autonomously, no longer beholden to wavering Democrats, filibustering Republicans, and (perhaps most tantalizingly) no longer beholden to Barack Obama.

None of this is to say Latino voters have dumped Obama. “The honeymoon is not quite over,” says Fernand Amandi, the managing partner of the polling firm Bendixen & Amandi. A June Gallup poll showed Obama down more than 10 points among Hispanics. But as the midterms neared, the immigrant salvos of candidates like Jan Brewer and Sharron Angle made the president seem more appealing to Hispanic voters. If Obama had once looked like the hesitator-in-chief, next to Brewer and Angle he looked like César Chávez. Hispanics voted overwhelmingly for Democrats.

This, then, is the dilemma for Hispanic leaders: They find themselves wedded to a president and a party that is their only conceivable hope to pass immigration reform. But the president and the party—because of the GOP, or because of internal priorities—could not pass immigration reform.

Which brings us to the divorce. “I haven’t thought this out completely,” Gutiérrez says in the church. Then he begins tentatively spelling out a plan to sever the immigration-reform movement from the Democrats.

“We need to decouple the movement for comprehensive immigration reform and justice for immigrants from the legislative process and from the Democratic Party process,” Gutiérrez says. “They are too linked.”

In the broad strokes, the kind of divide Gutiérrez is talking about is not only reminiscent of the African-American civil-rights movement, but the arms-length distance the Chicano Movement kept from the political establishment during most of its late-1960s heyday. Luis Gutiérrez and Coming Latino Revolt - The Daily Beast

Hispanics (or Latinos) are about 15% of the population in the US, in some places of the Southwest they are the overwhelming majority, in most large cities, the largest ethno-cultural group. This is a powerful constituency in terms of its size and solidarity, and their importance is only growing with their higher birth rate.

The "Dream Act" (a proposal to facilitate citizenship for undocumented minors who perform well academically and stay out of trouble) should have been an easy promise for Obama to keep, but they lost all that time bickering over healthcare reform and now the opportunity has slipped away with the Republican resurgance. Hispanics are disappointed, I don't think enough to renege on their ideological sympathies with Democrats, but this push for immigration reform will not succumb to political strategizing. It will be interesting to see how the community responds, we will get immigration reform -notwithstanding Republican resurgance.

[grandpa]

A Divorce?
Hispanics (or Latinos) are about 15% of the population in
the US, in some places of the Southwest they are
the overwhelming majority, in most large cities, the largest ethno-cultural
group.

Some of them have good homes, too.

Grandpa h.

[rmnunez]

Harry Reid is trying to get four different versions of the Dream Act to the legislative floor at the same time, each a variant on another with different enhanced conditions required to qualify. Republicans don't think this is honest and it sure does seem confussing.

Are Democrats trying to ingratiate themselves with all this "divorce" talk?

[grandpa]

Harry Reid is trying to get four different versions of
the Dream Act to the legislative floor at the same
time, each a variant on another with different enhanced conditions
required to qualify.
Republicans don't think this is honest and it sure does
seem confussing.

Senator Harry Reid's Dream Act is very modest, but it's still too much for Republicans, who go so far as to call it "amnesty" (like that's such a terrible idea anyway). If it recognizes "illegals" as human beings with wants and needs, most Republicans reject it at each turn (Not surprising when they're also afraid of marijuana -- a plant).

Grandpa h.

[rmnunez]

Democrats stalled any progress on Dream Act, too many defections among them and 42 Republicans committed to balance the budget first mean the immigration reform legislation is going nowhere before Christmas and making any progress after the new Republican legislators are sworn in even less likely.

[grandpa]

Democrats stalled any progress on Dream Act, too many defections
among them and 42 Republicans committed to balance the budget
first mean the immigration reform legislation is going nowhere before
Christmas and making any progress after the new Republican legislators
are sworn in even less likely.

We need an "open source" system.

When a politician opposing something, we should first say, "What is in it for them, I wonder."

Some opponents openly admit their desire to break apart immigrant families.
For example:
"What the DREAM Act means to you is this: you will pay for illegal
aliens’ university tuition. Then, those who graduate will take their
diplomas into the super-competitive, affirmative action oriented job
market to unfairly beat your kids out of the few opportunities
remaining in shrinking employment world.
In the process, the amnestied young adults will be able, through the
'family-reunification' farce written into current immigration law, to
bring in their parents, older siblings and eventually even aunts,
uncles and cousins, many of whom were guilty of breaking our laws and
bringing the illegal-alien teens into the country in the first place.
Then, once the family has settled in, it can go about the business of
getting low wage jobs—still coveted by poorer Americans."
VDARE.com: 04/03/09 - Whoopee! Patriots Have Same Old DREAM Act Amnesty To Kick Around Again

That level of candor is rare, but I think it accurately describes what Republicans want. That being the case, we're probably years away from new ideas that would actually improve human life. Also, Republicans stand to benefit from uncounted votes, as well as lack of worker solidarity.

Grandpa h.

[rmnunez]

Its a bit exagerated a characterization. Unless the Dream Act provides for this, undocumented immigrants would not qualify for federal student loans and grants. Whether college educated minorities would unfairly compete may depend on whether against other minorities (some US citizens aren't 'white') and if those they are competing against themselves obtained scholarships and/or grants. Generally it would be advantageous for the more pale-complected to prevent minorities (regardless of their immigration status) from accessing higher education.

[grandpa]

Its a bit exagerated a characterization.
Unless the Dream Act provides for this, undocumented immigrants would
not qualify for federal student loans and grants.

I too had a "what the Dickens?!" moment from reading that, but the point isn't that they're accurate claims. It's that they believe undocumented Mexican families are an inherent threat to America, and that they are not equal human beings with viable interests. Fascinatingly, they actually blame illegal immigrants for the "shrinking employment world." Arguably, illegal immigrants under sweatshop conditions are the primary victims of that phenomenon!

Grandpa h.