Immigration Reform

[RickSp]

By the way, the following question is for anyone who supports amnesty for illegal aliens.

Why should illegal entrants get a place at the front of the "path to citizenship" thereby pushing back legal applicants?

There is no reason that in a functioning immigration system that that would be the case.

[TheChamp]

The I recommend you go back and review the numbers because you are wrong. Yes there is an employer component to withholding taxes but that doesn't change the employee taxes withheld for which refunds are never claimed. .

yes, it absolutely does, because that money would have been withheld regardless of the legality of the person's citizenship. There is NO gain from having undocumented workers since legal residents would not only pay the same taxes at the job, but in fact higher taxes.
If you believe illegal immigrants pay enough in taxes, then shouldn't we all only have to pay as little as they do?

[Apeman81]

There is no reason that in a functioning immigration system that that would be the case.

Really? How would a "functioning immigration system" handle people who illegally enter a nation?

[RickSp]

We manage to accomplish that in Arizona, when we want to.

Illegals are encountered a few at a time. They can be deported. Employers replace them as required.

There were an estimated half million illegal immigrants in Arizona in 2006. I know that Arizona is now criminalizing illegals. How wonderfully totalitarian.

You still haven't answered how you would deported 12 million people without seriously disrupting the economy.

[RickSp]

Really? How would a "functioning immigration system" handle people who illegally enter a nation?

A functioning immigration would allow a method for those who are now entering illegaly to be more selectively allowed to enter as guest workers or immigrants. That won't make the Tancredo/Limbuagh bigots happy, but that may be just another upside.

[Apeman81]

A functioning immigration would allow a method for those who are now entering illegaly to be more selectively allowed to enter as guest workers or immigrants. That won't make the Tancredo/Limbuagh bigots happy, but that may be just another upside.

Guest workers in a nation with 10% unemployment?

That makes sense to you?

[RickSp]

Guest workers in a nation with 10% unemployment?

That makes sense to you?

So you prefer your jackbooted solution, which hasn't worked so far, to a open and controlled system.

And while I hate to introduce reality into your xenophobia, the states with the highest levels of illegal immigration have historically had among the lowest unemployment rates.

[Apeman81]

So you prefer your jackbooted solution, which hasn't worked so far, to a open and controlled system.

And while I hate to introduce reality into your xenophobia, the states with the highest levels of illegal immigration have historically had among the lowest unemployment rates.

Wow! Look at the buzzwords! OOOOOOHHH you got me with those.

Thus you confirm that your answer to illegal entrants seeking citizenship is to allow it. Head of the line, special treatment and all.

I find that to be unacceptable.

[RickSp]

yes, it absolutely does, because that money would have been withheld regardless of the legality of the person's citizenship. There is NO gain from having undocumented workers since legal residents would not only pay the same taxes at the job, but in fact higher taxes.
If you believe illegal immigrants pay enough in taxes, then shouldn't we all only have to pay as little as they do?

I don't know what to tell you. If you can't figure out the figures in the studies that is your issue. Your suggestion that legal residents would take the jobs now worked by illegals isn't supported by fact and is beside the point. All reputable studies show that the total revenues from taxes paid by illegals is greater than the costs paid out in services.

If the illegals were allowed to become citizens they would pay the same taxes that we do. Of course then they would also have access to greater services.

[RickSp]

Wow! Look at the buzzwords! OOOOOOHHH you got me with those.

Thus you confirm that your answer to illegal entrants seeking citizenship is to allow it. Head of the line, special treatment and all.

I find that to be unacceptable.

LOL. You find it to be unaccepatable. Alert the presses.

You do keep me amused primate. Pity your xenophobia stinks so.

[TheChamp]

I don't know what to tell you. If you can't figure out the figures in the studies that is your issue. Your suggestion that legal residents would take the jobs now worked by illegals isn't supported by fact and is beside the point.

It is absolutely supported by facts. And my capacity to interpet the data you listed is superior to your own. You want to suggest that the small percent of taxes illegals pay compared to us is somehow as significant? Ridiculous.

All reputable studies show that the total revenues from taxes paid by illegals is greater than the costs paid out in services.

No, those stats only show taxes paid by EMPLOYERS of illegal immigrants are greater than the cost of services. Doesn't this also imply that we, as citizens, pay far more in taxes than necessary to pay for our services?
More over, this doesn't show the cost of the children of illegal citizens, the cost of imprisonment, and trial costs.

If the illegals were allowed to become citizens they would pay the same taxes that we do. Of course then they would also have access to greater services.

Yes, though not many more.

[RickSp]

It is absolutely supported by facts. And my capacity to interpet the data you listed is superior to your own. You want to suggest that the small percent of taxes illegals pay compared to us is somehow as significant? Ridiculous.

No, those stats only show taxes paid by EMPLOYERS of illegal immigrants are greater than the cost of services. Doesn't this also imply that we, as citizens, pay far more in taxes than necessary to pay for our services?
More over, this doesn't show the cost of the children of illegal citizens, the cost of imprisonment, and trial costs.

Yes, though not many more.

If you can't grasp the figures in the various reports that is your problem. I'll match my graduate degree in finance against yours anytime. The statements you have made related to the reports I linked to are absurd and totally wrong.

As you seem incapable of understanding basic figures, I'll quote Francine J. Lipman of the Chapman University School of Law:

Americans believe that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States' economy. The widespread belief is that illegal aliens cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy. This belief is undeniably false. [E]very empirical study of illegals' economic impact demonstrates the opposite . . .: undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy.