Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Sonart · Oct 2, 2004, 03:49 pm

I'm going to do something I've never done and never thought I'd do -- recommend a political documentary film, Going Upriver: The Long War of John Kerry

Before I begin, allow me to qualify my review...

I despise Michael Moore.

I loathe his smarmy, unkempt Joe 6-pack routine, but mostly I despise his arrogant, lazy reliance on cheap-shots, cheap-laughs, half-truthes, innuendos, out-of-context comments, non sequitors and style over substance.

Roger and Me -- Moore's first film. Although something new and moderately entertaining at the time, in the end I was left with the perception of someone whining about the collapse of the Detroit auto industry and looking for someone convenient to blame it on, without the vaguest understanding that the collapse of the U.S. auto industry was the first warning signs of the coming global economy and that Detroit's reliance on glitzy, slipshod built-in obselesence, assembled by massively expensive union labor, was no longer competitive with the rising foreign auto industry.

Bowling for Columbine -- I walked out halfway through. I support gun control, but his movie was simply a festival of cheap shots.

Ferenheit 9/11 -- Same thing. A few good points, but over all just a sloppy collection of cheap shots. So they flew out some Saudis? So friggin' what? I would have walked out, but I was with someone.

Another recent film offering (not from Moore) was Outfoxed , a scathing exposé of Rupert Murdoch's rather shameless manipulation of Fox News. Hard-hitting and well-documented, I suspect it would have made a better Frontline episode than a movie. I walked out 3/4 of the way through. "Ok, I get it already" (although if you hate Bill O'Reilly, you'll Love this movie

)

Now to Going Upriver: The Long War of John Kerry. If you're already a pathological Kerry-hater, don't bother going. You'll hate it. If you're a confirmed Kerry-supporter, by all means go see it, it'll boost your spirits. And if you're an undecided who wants to understand what makes Kerry tick, then you should absolutely go.

While the movie begins with Kerry's service in Vietnam - and it does put things in context - the movie mostly focuses on Kerry's relationship with Vietnam Veterans Against the War and how he ended up testifying before Congress. Kerry did not simply walk off the street one day and start bitching to Congress about atrocities.

By himself and from scratch, a 26-yr-old Kerry took a rag-tag collection of Vietnam vets and built it into a movement of thousands that eventually shoved it's way past the Washington bureaucracy to camp on the Washington Mall, and culminated with Kerry sitting before the halls of power and declaring his message, a message they did NOT want to hear.

Kerry had nothing to gain politically and everything to lose, but he went ahead because he'd been to Vietnam, saw what was happening and knew he had to find a way to speak up.

Regardless of what you think of Kerry now, it was a tour d'force of leadership for such a young man, and powerfullly moving.

Scribbler1 · Oct 2, 2004, 05:54 pm

Although I sometimes feel I LIVE in this forum, I don't watch any politically oriented movies. (the most political film I've seen was "Dave")
I'm not speaking about this film as I haven't seen it, but I am well aware that filmmakers are masters of emotional manipulation (it's their job and Hollywood does it better than anyone else) and I prefer not to have my judgement colored based on movies (I'm easy that way :) ), as accurate as they may be.
I may see it after the election though.

I'm just eagerly anticipating the comments you get on this subject! :)

Mr.Vicchio · Oct 5, 2004, 12:10 am

Same here, if its a political documentary, reguardless the subject, its not worth watching.

The guy that made THIS movie is a 40 year friend of Senator Kerry.

Thats all you need to know, he made a popcorn koolaide film for the faithful.

Technosoul · Oct 5, 2004, 04:04 am

I was around back then and lived through those times, I have yet to see any movie that really showed the 1960s like it was for real. I liked the first Moore movie but for all the reasons you did not like them, but I do not really watch movies looking for "facts" but rather for the observations only.

I have not seen the one about 9-11. But Rodger was real good, the part about where the policeman had to kick someone out of thier house on Christmas Eve. The shots of the town "going out of busness", the somewhat comical attempts to get an interview with Rodger as he is confronted by security guards and receptionists.

The 2nd movie won an top award so saying it was no good would be like saying you do not know what's up about film making. However that movie did not impress me that much, but I liked the interview with that one guy who had a gun under his pillow. I thought he was "right on" comprehending that it is the media that has promoted the reasoning behind our overdone gun culture, by creating such fear of everything.

The John Kerry movie sounds like something I would like to see, perhaps it will even get into the spirit of the 1960s era.

Technosoul.

castille · Oct 6, 2004, 12:56 am

You want a real 60s film, watch any stoner flick. Harold and Kumarm go to white castle

Sonart · Oct 6, 2004, 01:03 am

Quote:

You want a real 60s film, watch any stoner flick. Harold and Kumarm go to white castle

For a Vietnam war film, 84 Charlie Mopic

Oct 2, 2004, 03:49 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Sonart It's simply logical Location: San Diego Posts: 4,333	I'm going to do something I've never done and never thought I'd do -- recommend a political documentary film, Going Upriver: The Long War of John Kerry Before I begin, allow me to qualify my review... I despise Michael Moore. I loathe his smarmy, unkempt Joe 6-pack routine, but mostly I despise his arrogant, lazy reliance on cheap-shots, cheap-laughs, half-truthes, innuendos, out-of-context comments, non sequitors and style over substance. Roger and Me -- Moore's first film. Although something new and moderately entertaining at the time, in the end I was left with the perception of someone whining about the collapse of the Detroit auto industry and looking for someone convenient to blame it on, without the vaguest understanding that the collapse of the U.S. auto industry was the first warning signs of the coming global economy and that Detroit's reliance on glitzy, slipshod built-in obselesence, assembled by massively expensive union labor, was no longer competitive with the rising foreign auto industry. Bowling for Columbine -- I walked out halfway through. I support gun control, but his movie was simply a festival of cheap shots. Ferenheit 9/11 -- Same thing. A few good points, but over all just a sloppy collection of cheap shots. So they flew out some Saudis? So friggin' what? I would have walked out, but I was with someone. Another recent film offering (not from Moore) was Outfoxed , a scathing exposé of Rupert Murdoch's rather shameless manipulation of Fox News. Hard-hitting and well-documented, I suspect it would have made a better Frontline episode than a movie. I walked out 3/4 of the way through. "Ok, I get it already" (although if you hate Bill O'Reilly, you'll Love this movie ) Now to Going Upriver: The Long War of John Kerry. If you're already a pathological Kerry-hater, don't bother going. You'll hate it. If you're a confirmed Kerry-supporter, by all means go see it, it'll boost your spirits. And if you're an undecided who wants to understand what makes Kerry tick, then you should absolutely go. While the movie begins with Kerry's service in Vietnam - and it does put things in context - the movie mostly focuses on Kerry's relationship with Vietnam Veterans Against the War and how he ended up testifying before Congress. Kerry did not simply walk off the street one day and start bitching to Congress about atrocities. By himself and from scratch, a 26-yr-old Kerry took a rag-tag collection of Vietnam vets and built it into a movement of thousands that eventually shoved it's way past the Washington bureaucracy to camp on the Washington Mall, and culminated with Kerry sitting before the halls of power and declaring his message, a message they did NOT want to hear. Kerry had nothing to gain politically and everything to lose, but he went ahead because he'd been to Vietnam, saw what was happening and knew he had to find a way to speak up. Regardless of what you think of Kerry now, it was a tour d'force of leadership for such a young man, and powerfullly moving. I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

Oct 2, 2004, 05:54 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	Although I sometimes feel I LIVE in this forum, I don't watch any politically oriented movies. (the most political film I've seen was "Dave") I'm not speaking about this film as I haven't seen it, but I am well aware that filmmakers are masters of emotional manipulation (it's their job and Hollywood does it better than anyone else) and I prefer not to have my judgement colored based on movies (I'm easy that way :) ), as accurate as they may be. I may see it after the election though. I'm just eagerly anticipating the comments you get on this subject! :) Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Oct 5, 2004, 12:10 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	Same here, if its a political documentary, reguardless the subject, its not worth watching. The guy that made THIS movie is a 40 year friend of Senator Kerry. Thats all you need to know, he made a popcorn koolaide film for the faithful. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Oct 6, 2004, 12:56 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	You want a real 60s film, watch any stoner flick. Harold and Kumarm go to white castle Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 5, 2004, 04:04 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	I was around back then and lived through those times, I have yet to see any movie that really showed the 1960s like it was for real. I liked the first Moore movie but for all the reasons you did not like them, but I do not really watch movies looking for "facts" but rather for the observations only. I have not seen the one about 9-11. But Rodger was real good, the part about where the policeman had to kick someone out of thier house on Christmas Eve. The shots of the town "going out of busness", the somewhat comical attempts to get an interview with Rodger as he is confronted by security guards and receptionists. The 2nd movie won an top award so saying it was no good would be like saying you do not know what's up about film making. However that movie did not impress me that much, but I liked the interview with that one guy who had a gun under his pillow. I thought he was "right on" comprehending that it is the media that has promoted the reasoning behind our overdone gun culture, by creating such fear of everything. The John Kerry movie sounds like something I would like to see, perhaps it will even get into the spirit of the 1960s era. Technosoul.