Obama Euphoria Ends

[Deadeye]

Quote by: NoJingoLingo I thought our rights were inalienable? Doesn't that mean every human is born with these rights? I feel like, when we interact with the rest of the world we should treat them the way we would want to be treated, regardless of how they actually treat us. That kinda makes us the "bigger man".

Well, it's a nice thought and certainly we have spilled thousands of gallons of American blood to free the Germans, British, French, Japanese, Philippinos, Koreans, Cubans, many Indian tribes (from attacks by other Indian tribes) and others. But our laws only apply to us. We'd like to see other nations that we have freed to adopt our Constitution and Bill of Rights, and sometimes they do a pretty good job of it, as in say; the Japanese.

Our Constitution says that when a government challenges the inalienable rights that the people have the right and responsibility to overthrow that government, and when they do we always support them. (but sometimes not enough, as in Hungry in the 50's).

But, like it or not; our laws and our Constitution do not have jurisdiction outside of the US.

[dan4reason]

Quote by: Robert Marsh II Obama's 2008 pre-election platform(s) changed so many times, that everyone was having trouble keeping track and understanding his meaning, but he wasn't a Bush (Republican) --- thus he got elected. He also promised to block the Lobbyists and Special Interest Groups, and this was the only way that Obama could have 'not' been viewed as another Bush-type tyrant! It is still not too late, but time is escaping correction on this issue!!!

Obama hasn't done everything he has promised and he has changed his mind on a few issues, but he has been far more consistent than Bush for example. Bush made so many promises of small government and lower taxes that he didn't keep. Obama has been actively pursuing to keep most of his promises.

[dan4reason]

Quote by: NoJingoLingo Because none of the "rights" include the word American or citizen but rather, person or people.

That is a good argument, but maybe there was an assumption that the constitution applied only to America. However, I agree that people living in other nations deserve trial by jury just like we do.

[Robert Marsh II]

Quote by: dan4reason Obama hasn't done everything he has promised and he has changed his mind on a few issues, but he has been far more consistent than Bush for example. Bush made so many promises of small government and lower taxes that he didn't keep. Obama has been actively pursuing to keep most of his promises.

Yes, politicians are known to be born liars and it must be quite difficult for them to keep a promise, of that I am sure!

But will this be enough for Obama to complete his lengthy agenda while loosing his liberal base, as he attempts to make his 2012 landing with only one wing and alot of prayer???

Watch out for Palin cross-winds!!!

[dan4reason]

Quote by: Robert Marsh II Yes, politicians are known to be born liars and it must be quite difficult for them to keep a promise, of that I am sure! But will this be enough for Obama to complete his lengthy agenda while loosing his liberal base, as he attempts to make his 2012 landing with only one wing and alot of prayer??? Watch out for Palin cross-winds!!!

Well, some politicians are born liars, and others are honest. Many honest politicians do not do the things they said they would, because when they actually went into office, they realized that they were wrong on several points. This is likely to happen to politicians who are intelligent, get inexperienced. They are smart enough to know when they are wrong, and their inexperience means that they will be wrong quite often.

The liberals still support Obama. The big question is over whether he can keep the support of many independents and moderates. Gaining the support of conservatives is of course, out of the question.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Robert Marsh II Yes, politicians are known to be born liars and it must be quite difficult for them to keep a promise, of that I am sure! But will this be enough for Obama to complete his lengthy agenda while loosing his liberal base, as he attempts to make his 2012 landing with only one wing and alot of prayer???

I don't know if they're "born liars." I think they are, like most of us, born and raised in lies and half-truths.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: dan4reason Well, some politicians are born liars, and others are honest. Many honest politicians do not do the things they said they would, because when they actually went into office, they realized that they were wrong on several points.

One reason they're dishonest is there is little incentive for being so. Our society -- the voting public included -- feeds off lies like they're mother's milk. And most vote not due to some principle, but because they have a specific agenda or because they are disgruntled folks
looking to blame someone else for society's problems. These are the types who will argue even after they've been proven dead wrong.

Grandpa h.

[dan4reason]

Quote by: grandpa One reason they're dishonest is there is little incentive for being so. Our society -- the voting public included -- feeds off lies like they're mother's milk. And most vote not due to some principle, but because they have a specific agenda or because they are disgruntled folks looking to blame someone else for society's problems. These are the types who will argue even after they've been proven dead wrong. Grandpa h.

An unimformed public sure doesn't help the corruption problem. It seems like using propaganda and making wild promises are now incouraged rather than discouraged. Since many voters do not check up on when their representatives are doing, there is less incouragement to be honest among our representatives. I actually wrote a paper on that and my solution was quite draconian. Some voters in my opinion, are just plain stupid.

[grandpa]

Quote by: dan4reason An unimformed public sure doesn't help the corruption problem. It seems like using propaganda and making wild promises are now incouraged rather than discouraged.

One thing is for sure: Politicians would suffer big-time if they followed the credo, "be who you really are, rather than who you think you are."

Grandpa h.

[dan4reason]

Quote by: grandpa One thing is for sure: Politicians would suffer big-time if they followed the credo, "be who you really are, rather than who you think you are." Grandpa h.

They sure would. I think that Obama is honest. He has made many moves that he has promised to do that are unpopular. His positions of foreign policy, nuclear weapons, healthcare, the economy, Gitmo, and Afghanistan shows that he is not all talk.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: dan4reason Obama hasn't done everything he has promised and he has changed his mind on a few issues, but he has been far more consistent than Bush for example. Bush made so many promises of small government and lower taxes that he didn't keep. Obama has been actively pursuing to keep most of his promises.

To my way of thinking Obama is a tyrant. He listens only to his political allies. He does not consider things that he does not like. He makes decisions behind closed doors. He is extremely divisive. He is not my president because he does not want to be my president.

[grandpa]

Quote by: dan4reason They sure would. I think that Obama is honest.

To the extent that a liar, thief and murderer can be honest, yes. I know what comes next: But Obama isn't any of those things! Yes, he is. He's scarcely any better than Bush.

Grandpa h.

[Angry Citizen]

He listens only to his political allies.

Like his anti-war buddies who want Obama to pull our troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq now?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Deadeye To my way of thinking Obama is a tyrant. He listens only to his political allies.

He's actually (marginally) less of a tyrant than Bush. But, for the most part, his election was fruitlessly tried.

Grandpa h.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: grandpa To the extent that a liar, thief and murderer can be honest, yes. I know what comes next: But Obama isn't any of those things! Yes, he is. He's scarcely any better than Bush. Grandpa h.

Bush was infinitely better than is Obama. Bush appreciated why the US is a great country. Obama thinks we are the villain in the world.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Angry Citizen Like his anti-war buddies who want Obama to pull our troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq now?

Obama wants badly to figure out a way to surrender. If not him then the likes of you do.

Reagan said that one way to avoid conflict in the World is to surrender. Democrats love to surrender. Oh, they might fight for the right to murder babies, those babes cannot fight back you see. If they could however, Demos would cave to them too.

[Angry Citizen]

Obama wants badly to figure out a way to surrender. If not him then the likes of you do.

The likes of me? We never should've been in either theatre of conflict. Now that we are there, I do not support leaving prematurely at all. Way to assume.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Angry Citizen The likes of me? We never should've been in either theatre of conflict. Now that we are there, I do not support leaving prematurely at all. Way to assume.

Why thank you.

[Robert Marsh II]

Quote by: dan4reason They sure would. I think that Obama is honest. He has made many moves that he has promised to do that are unpopular. His positions of foreign policy, nuclear weapons, healthcare, the economy, Gitmo, and Afghanistan shows that he is not all talk.

I will grant that you seem to be correct in regard to your aforementioned list, concerning Obama's moves on these positions, but how he 'completes' each aspect by the 'end of the day' has yet to be seen.

In reality we have no idea where these 'moves' will ultimately lead the United States or the world for that matter!

We can speculate that he could continue to outmaneuver the Republicans' political blockades.

We can further speculate that he will navigate successfully to a final conclusion on each of these issues, however unlikely that may sound to some.

We can also speculate the antithesis of these suppositions, and suspect much of his moves are window-dressing with added smoke-screens.

Of course this would lead us into any number of possible hidden agenda conspiracy theories.

So your actual statement should read, that 'you think' Obama is honest -- so far.

[Robert Marsh II]

Quote by: grandpa He's actually (marginally) less of a tyrant than Bush. But, for the most part, his election was fruitlessly tried. Grandpa h.

Has anyone heard the story about the used car dealer who became a politician, and then being overtaken by power, greed and wealth was quickly transformed into the tyrant?

I am sure he had the best of original intentions!?