Modern, liberal ideology must be overthrown

[Dan_77]

Quote by: Questatement Fact or fiction, the Trojan Horse which was drug into Troy seemed to be an innocent enough trophy - but it wasn't until the gates were opened and the city inhabitants were in the minority that the destruction ensued.

I don't see how this relates.

Again, the writer is advocating outlawing the peaceful spread of ideas. That is a thoroughly un-American concept.

The American ideal is that triumph of good ideas over bad ones. That all ideas can be brought in and people can be free to choose the best ones.

The lack of Muslim integration in Europe will demonstrate the end result for Americans only by that time, it will most likely be too late.

Europe is not the United States, not even close. The United States has a centuries-old tradition of being able to absorb and integrate large groups of immigrants into our own society.

Europeans, well... They don't.

Quote by: Questatement Although I agree that a Constitutional Republic was a better idea than a monarchy, its was through military battle and the blood of patriots that the American way 'rose to the top.'

There are others who were just as good at "battle" as Americans. Better, even. It was through strength of our ideas that we became great.

Quote by: Questatement What specific part of the Constitution would need to be suspended or re-writen?

He says the Constitution would be amended to essentially remove the freedom of religion. Freedom of religion would be redefined to mean "only religions the majority like", which actually means "no freedom of religion".

Quote by: Questatement Did you select your Muslim county and time frame yet?

Although this was not directed at me... Maldives is a gorgeous country. I sure wouldn't mind living there.

Quote by: Questatement I'm going out on a limb here since no information is out yet. Dollars to donuts that the Ft. Hood incident is a perfect example of what comes with the lack of discrimination going on in liberal thought and practice concerning Muslim immigration... be it first, second, or third generation immigrants.

And Oklahoma City is a perfect example of what happens when ideas like the ones in the OP turn into action.

You need to learn about the difference between isolated incidents and troubling trends. Terrorism isn't even on my top 50 lists of fears. I think I'm more afraid of the dark than I am of terrorists. It's simply not a significant problem. When you isolate it to "Muslim" terrorism, the chances that I or anyone close to me will die as a result of "Muslim" terrorism are essentially zero.

Also, you need to remember that people like you who would choose perceived security over liberty deserve neither. The writer of that article is a coward, and so is anyone that is so afraid of an IDEA they would seek to outlaw it.

And while Obama condems it out one side of his mouth, he invites more of the same out the other.

How? By not being a racist?

Quote by: Questatement I'm glad you have the option to lie when they hold a sword to your neck and ask you if you are truly gay. I have no such luxury with my faith.

Nice fearmongering.

What faith is it that allows you to behave in such a way? I'm not familiar with a faith that could possibly allow you to have the views you do. Certainly not Christianity, not even by a long stretch.

[loser]

Quote by: Dan_77 Wow... what a racist (religionist), bigoted rant based in nothing but fear of scary brown people. Some quotes from the longer article: [/LIST] But wait, it gets better: Apparently, according to the writer, America is (or should be) a society that bans entire religions from existence within its borders, based upon irrational fear of terrorism. Oh, but wait, the writer later clarifies this to make this speech even less worthy of serious debate: So, the writer is advocating that America should outlaw the peaceful spread of particular ideas, merely because he does not like them. I see no point in mincing words here, so I'll cut right to it: I am disgusted that such a human being as this writer gets to call himself an "American" and a representative of my people merely because he fell out of his mother onto American soil. This man has no concept whatsoever of what being an American means. His writing is an affront to the very heart of what makes my nation great - that ideas are to be heard and debated, that by the process of hearing and debating ideas, the best ideas will rise to the top and make us greater as a whole.

You say this as if it was a bad thing...

What's wrong with nationalism/racism, exactly?

When I was white, the blacks sneered at me.

When I was of multiracial ethnicity, the purebreds scorned me.

When I was a hippie, the rednecks spat on me.

When I was a redneck, the hippies fingered me.

When I was a Southerner, the Northerners laughed at me.

When I became a Californian, I was disowned by family.

When I was a Republican, the Democrats hated me.

When I became a Christian, I was greeted with ALL of these reactions and more.

Why, exactly, should Islam be exempted from these very same discriminatory feelings?

The poster boy for dissent has gone from Jesus of Nazareth to Abbie Hoffman to Osama bin Laden...what will be next, the Antichrist?

[grandpa]

Quote by: loser You say this as if it was a bad thing... What's wrong with nationalism/racism, exactly?

[Thanatos]

What's wrong with racism is that it tends to make people go crazy and kill eachother.

Just saying.

So a little bit of racism is normal. A little bit of ionizing radiation is also normal. I don't like either.

[Questatement]

Quote by: GeminiBrian ps. notice also in the above posts from our own resident advocate of these hateful ideas how he further exposed his affinity with intolerance when he hinted that gays such as myself ought to be next on the list for expulsion, just as in Nazi Germany. If that isn't another direct link to Hitler's way of thinking, I don't know what is... Who next? disabled people?

I'm amazed that you would incriminate another for something that was originally your idea. Feeling a bit guilty and utilizing transference to avoid the discomfort of it?

[Questatement]

Quote by: Dan_77 I don't see how this relates. Again, the writer is advocating outlawing the peaceful spread of ideas. That is a thoroughly un-American concept.

There is no such thing as the peaceful spread of violent ideas.

Quote by: Dan_77 IThe American ideal is that triumph of good ideas over bad ones. That all ideas can be brought in and people can be free to choose the best ones.

It is this ideal that, once fully exploited, will become our undoing.

Quote by: Dan_77 IEurope is not the United States, not even close. The United States has a centuries-old tradition of being able to absorb and integrate large groups of immigrants into our own society. Europeans, well... They don't.

Legal immigration policies within the US used to fall between a demand and a strong encouragement for the immigrant to integrate into American culture and ideologies. Not so anymore. As a result, our identity changes and so will the forces that have guided us in the past.

Quote by: Dan_77 He says the Constitution would be amended to essentially remove the freedom of religion. Freedom of religion would be redefined to mean "only religions the majority like", which actually means "no freedom of religion".

He specifics where violence and injustices lie within Islam and only references these sources.

Quote by: Dan_77 And Oklahoma City is a perfect example of what happens when ideas like the ones in the OP turn into action.

Easy to say... please elaborate for us.

Quote by: Dan_77 IYou need to learn about the difference between isolated incidents and troubling trends. Terrorism isn't even on my top 50 lists of fears. I think I'm more afraid of the dark than I am of terrorists. It's simply not a significant problem. When you isolate it to "Muslim" terrorism, the chances that I or anyone close to me will die as a result of "Muslim" terrorism are essentially zero.

Today that is. I believe I could reference at least a few countries and many cities that could say the same thing twenty years ago but not today.

Quote by: Dan_77 IAlso, you need to remember that people like you who would choose perceived security over liberty deserve neither. The writer of that article is a coward, and so is anyone that is so afraid of an IDEA they would seek to outlaw it. How? By not being a racist?

Tell me what race(s) Islam is restricted to?

Quote by: Dan_77 INice fearmongering. What faith is it that allows you to behave in such a way? I'm not familiar with a faith that could possibly allow you to have the views you do. Certainly not Christianity, not even by a long stretch.

Pro-American philosophies and beliefs.

[GeminiBrian]

Quote by: Questatement I'm amazed that you would incriminate another for something that was originally your idea. Feeling a bit guilty and utilizing transference to avoid the discomfort of it?

I may have provoked you into saying this, whereas you might not otherwise have come out with it - but given my past-knowledge of your antagonism to homosexuality - as aimed specifically at me on more than one occasion - any feelings of guilt I may have at having put words in your mouth are considerably ameliorated.

Besides, you failed to deny that the idea of deporting gays en mass fits in well with your partiality to ridding society of people you find personally disagreeable - as you just proved in your OP on this thread.

When people develop an intolerant mindset, history suggests that the objects of that intolerance are rarely confined to one particular group, but is insidious. And given that you freely admit to disapproval of all things gay, as well as Muslim, that impression is considerably strengthened.

The bottom line, Quest, is that you openly disapprove of gays as a group, so you can't complain when a member of that group sometimes takes your views to task.

All you have to do, therefore, is to assure me that should it be proposed that gays be deported or otherwise penalised, you wouldn't give such measures your support.

[Questatement]

Thank you doctor... how much is my bill?

[NoJingoLingo]

Quote by: Questatement While you're talking 1.7 billion Muslims out of their religious beliefs, not to mention some 5 billion others with alternate religious beliefs, I'll be advocating a return to what made American the world power that she became, climaxing in the 1940 thru the 1980's.

What's that, the destruction of the worlds manufacturing? That's what made America "the world power that she became". Our country was unscathed by the world war, coupled with our abundance of natural resources we dominated the world economy making us wealthy enough to amass a huge industrial military complex.

We have been in a steady economic decline since the 80s with only the 90s as a respite from that decline through a technology boom. Why is this? Could it be because we no longer have the manufacturing power we once had? Could it be because our leaders have, for the sake of corporate profits allowed our manufacturing base to leave our country?

The article you posted, as others have pointed out, is nothing but a religious/racist rant and the fact that you agree with it confirms that you are a sad human being. The fact that you (and the articles author) try to hide your racist and religious bigotry by blaming liberals confirms that you are an asshat. This makes you a sad, asshat excuse for a human being.

Is that too honest?

[GeminiBrian]

Quote by: Questatement Thank you doctor... how much is my bill?

Don't worry, Quest - unlike rapacious psychologists and their fatuous theories, I don't charge a penny for sharing my wisdom.

[Questatement]

Quote by: NoJingoLingo What's that, the destruction of the worlds manufacturing? That's what made America "the world power that she became". Our country was unscathed by the world war, coupled with our abundance of natural resources we dominated the world economy making us wealthy enough to amass a huge industrial military complex.

You're talking surface issues. Tell me this, with the vast wealth of oil reserves that many Middle Eastern countries possessed, why were they still riding camels and living in tents until a people with a different philosophical ideology entered the scene and eventually utilized those resources?

Don't make the mistake that is so prevalent in Western medicine today... treating the symptoms instead of (preventing) the cause.

[Questatement]

Quote by: Dan_77 Although this was not directed at me... Maldives is a gorgeous country. I sure wouldn't mind living there.

Boy did you pick a country with very little importance, therefore, news coming out of it.

Maldives

According to the constitution of Maldives, "The judges are independent, and subject only to the constitution and the law. When deciding matters on which the Constitution or the law is silent, judges must consider Islamic Shari’ah." Islam remains the only official religion of The Maldives with popular support of the people of the Republic. The open practice of all other religions is forbidden and such actions are liable to prosecution under the law of the country. According to the revised constitution, in article two, it says that the republic "is based on the principles of Islam." Article nine says that "a non-Muslim may not become a citizen of the Maldives"; number ten says that "no law contrary to any principle of Islam can be applied in the Maldives." Article nineteen states that "citizens are free to participate in or carry out any activity that is not expressly prohibited by sharia or by the law."

Adhaalath calls for sharia law punishments in penal code

In a rally last night at Dharubaaruge (convention centre), senior officials of the party said commandments of God could not be questioned, debated or altered. "We changed the previous government because it defied Islam and opposed Islamic activities," said Assadullah Shafie. "If today he [President Nasheed] is directly trying to do things like this, I ask him to made amends. If he doesn't do it, I call on you beloved citizens to come out against it." Under sharia law, the death penalty can be administered to those who commit murder and for crimes against the community, which includes apostasy, treason, rape, adultery and homosexuality. Amputation is the punishment prescribed for theft.

All I can say is that I hope you enjoy your stay.

[NoJingoLingo]

Quote by: Questatement You're talking surface issues. Tell me this, with the vast wealth of oil reserves that many Middle Eastern countries possessed, why were they still riding camels and living in tents until a people with a different philosophical ideology entered the scene and eventually utilized those resources? Don't make the mistake that is so prevalent in Western medicine today... treating the symptoms instead of (preventing) the cause.

Because they don't have the abundance of natural resources we have? BTW, people still ride horses in the USA. Regardless, you seem to be under the impression that white people must be smarter than the brown people because we have... things and stuff and we figured out how to wreck the environment instead of living in harmony with it.
Asians were much more advanced than Europeans until about the 1500s and it looks like they will be the major world power in the future so I guess that shoots your white supremacy position all to hell.

[Questatement]

White supremacy what?

Earth to NoJingoLingo.

[Questatement]

Great summary from Hugh on a Jihad Watch article. Hat's off to you, my friend.

"The Pentagon, the American military, the Army, those who run Fort Hood, are guilty, in their refusal to recognize the effect of Islam on the minds of men, in their wilfull ignorance of what is contained in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, in their continual pretend-belief that only the obvious "extremists" are a danger to non-Muslims, are guilty of criminal negligence. And the government of this country, and the governments of other non-Muslim countries who refuse to take Islam seriously, refuse to halt all Muslim immigration and work to diminish the number of Muslims present in our imperilled non-Muslim societies and states, are guilty of the same criminal negligence. Everyone in authority -- brief authority --in the Western world who presumes to protect and defend "the people," has a duty to learn about Islam. Not from John Esposito. Not from the sly propagandists, Muslim and non-Muslim collaborators alike, that is the True Believers and the hirelings, or the ideological sympathizers with Islam as "anti-Western." But, in the main, from two sources: the great Western authorities on Islam, such as Snouck Hurgronje, Joseph Schacht, Franz Rosenthal, Henri Lammens, Samuel Zwemer, St. Clair Tisdall, and a hundred others, and from the articulate apostates from Islam, such people as Ibn Warraq, Nonie Darwish, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Magdi Allam. Their testimonies have been published; they are eager to help explain the Muslim mind, the mind of those brought up in societies suffused with Islam. But those who rule over us think they have no duty to learn from these sources. They prefer to listen to the smiling, affable, so-trustworthy Muslims on their staffs, or in the pay of the government. They are easily fooled. They are too lazy to do the necessary work that only they -- not their staffs, who prepare those simplify bullet-riddled Exective Summaries. Nothing but immediate, and detailed knowledge, of the texts and the tenets and the attitudes and the atmospherics of Islam, will do."

[Night]

In liberal countries such as Europe there are definitely problems with the public governments. They are more prone to populism and such.

But in conservative countries where the private sector is valued more than the government, it seems that the regular man is screwed more often.

I see huge problems in both ideologies, right and left. But it seems to me right-wing ideology is less inclusive and more prone to oppression, such as gays, African-Americans, women, and other groups who have historically and presently been oppressed by the right wing (in America anyways). The democratic party pushed civil rights for African-Americans first and the GOP was staunchly against it in most cases.

Of course, politicians are politicians, they suck for the most part. Even Obama does many things I don't like.

I hate this black-and-white polarizing view most people have towards right and left wing ideologies. Combining elements of both ideologies works best.

I like right wing ideology when it comes to protecting private business. And I like left wing ideology when it comes to setting boundaries and making the government more accessible and helpful to the poor. The problem comes in when you take an extreme view on either ideology and express absolute hatred to the opposing ideology.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: GeminiBrian ps. notice also in the above posts from our own resident advocate of these hateful ideas how he further exposed his affinity with intolerance when he hinted that gays such as myself ought to be next on the list for expulsion, just as in Nazi Germany. If that isn't another direct link to Hitler's way of thinking, I don't know what is... Who next? disabled people?

I believe he merely pointed out where you might be if you were subject to sharia law. You seem to be the one that wants to bring new groups into the discussion.

Before we start making comparisons with Hitler's policies, perhaps we ought to step back and take a cold, realistic look at the nature of the perceived threats. Does Islam pose a threat to western culture?

[Apeman81]

Night;666883] I see huge problems in both ideologies, right and left. But it seems to me right-wing ideology is less inclusive and more prone to oppression, such as gays, African-Americans, women, and other groups who have historically and presently been oppressed by the right wing (in America anyways).

The level of single minded bias is astounding!

Oppress African-Americans? You mean like creating a system to deliver a subsistence level of existence, into which in wildly disparate numbers Blacks are invited to participate? A system under which their basic needs are minimally met by the “benevolent” government, upon whom they become completely reliant? A system designed to ensure that any attempt to remove oneself from it is faced with a staggering loss of additional benefits such as healthcare or housing making entry level job-taking a non option? That kind of “oppression”?

You know, the kind that offers an education system culminating in quota driven test score advantages to the “oppressed” while maintaining strict control over what is taught in their primary and secondary education, fiercely opposing any system that might promote parental choice in schooling? A system that imposes an increasing number of ancillary subjects on teachers while hindering if not outright denying their ability to hold the students to a set of standards that must be met prior to advancement? A system that continues to graduate children incapable of reading at a level required by society? That kind of oppression?

Oppressing women? You mean like creating and promoting an organization, empowered unto itself to claim to speak for all women, which begins a multimedia campaign to demean any women who would choose of her own accord to remain in a traditional role as homemaker and mother? A system which snidely remarks that unless a woman leave the home and enter the workplace, she is somehow less worthy, old fashioned, uninformed? A system which through insult and intimidation seeks to remove women from the home, thereby insuring an ever increasing number of these women’s children become increasingly reliant on the benevolent government’s effort to care for them? That kind oppression?

Oppress Gays? You mean like a policy of forcing one’s sexual desires to define them as a person, thus forcing self identification and group think upon individuals? You mean like defaming any person who despite his homosexual desires might choose to examine their nature and strive to deny those urges in favor of a heterosexual life as a liar, who is, instead of deciding for himself based upon the entirety of his being, must have it decided for him based upon sexual desires. You man that kind of oppression?

[Questatement]

Well said Apeman81 and I don't say that too often.

[Apeman81]

Quote by: Questatement Well said Apeman81 and I don't say that too often.

Thank you. A bit of a "Dennis Millerian" rant.

I am so very tired of the "Opposite side of the coin? What’s That?” mentality that seems to permeate our society, thereby promoting the damaging “us vs. us” battle of right versus left, instead of concentrating on the real battle before us, the “us vs. them” between the free people of this nation and the controlling efforts of the ruling class.