Kerry Investigation on Ollie North

[Technosoul]

Some of our new posters might not be aware that canidate Kerry once chaired an investigation that looked into reports that Ollie North was in involved in a drug trafficing scandle related to the Iran Cantra events.

Check it out on this webpage.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB113/

[Compugasm]

Butterface. This is not your news posting site.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Technosoul, Some of our new posters might not be aware that canidate Kerry once chaired an investigation that looked into reports that Ollie North was in involved in a drug trafficing scandle related to the Iran Cantra events.  Check it out on this webpage. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB113/

Are you saying this is a reason North and his supporters are so anti Kerry, like the SBVFT are motivated by Kerry's post Vietnam actions? As I recall, the info on your link is essentially correct.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Compugasm, Butterface. This is not your news posting site.

The topic header IS "Politics, News, and Government" and North's possible motivations for slamming Kerry are just as relevant as the Swift Boat Vets motivations. And as much as it pains me personally, when North opens his yap, it IS news.

[PatrickHenry]

Good call, Scribbler. This is a debatable topic.

Many "conservatives" think that North is essentially a good guy who made a few mistakes, because that fits their paradigm: How could a US Colonel, a denizen of Reagan's White House, have done anything as nefarious as running cover ops on drug trafficking? http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB...BB2/nsaebb2.htm

This electronic briefing book is compiled from declassified documents obtained by the National Security Archive, including the notebooks kept by NSC aide and Iran-contra figure Oliver North, electronic mail messages written by high-ranking Reagan administration officials, memos detailing the contra war effort, and FBI and DEA reports. The documents demonstrate official knowledge of drug operations, and collaboration with and protection of known drug traffickers. Court and hearing transcripts are also included.

Let's see. Could it have been about the MONEY? For that matter why is the CIA still allowed to this day to run drugs into America under its National Security authority? http://www.wakeupmag.co.uk/articles/cia2.htm

The consequences of Empire, rule by the elite, is non-sequiturs in what is allowable...

[bishop]

there's always been a sizeable portion of our society that simply refuses to admit/believe that our country has acted maliciously in the past. they view any such omission as a declaration of weakness and anti-americanism (which is further spun into anti-capitalism). or, they could admit that we made mistakes in the past, but none at present (which is essentially the same thing).

that's the only reason i can think of for why american fascists could criticize kerry for protesting vietnam after he returned home. some, to this day, refuse to admit that it was a totally bogus war.

the only way to run against reality is simply to lie and deny the truth. which, incidentally is exactly what's happening right now in iraq.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Technosoul, http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB113/

I went to that page, and there is an additional information :
- on the top

For further information Contact Peter Kornbluh: 202/994-7116

- on the bottom

Numerous other entries contain references to individuals or events which Subcommittee staff has determined have relevance to narcotics, terrorism, or international operations, but whose ambiguities cannot be resolved without the production of the deleted materials by North and his attorneys.

I seems some people in this world are after a "cheap sensentional materials", which posted on the Net may turn an attention on "authors".
What do those people want to achieve ? Medals ? Profits ? "Fame" ?

O. North played a key-role in "Iran <--> Contras" enterprise.
It was not legal ? Really ? SO WHAT ?
North did the job assigned to him. That is was his duty to comply with it. The Army all over the world do it, on daily bases.

Has somebody suddenly discovered that this whole world is based on small or big "IranGates" ?
How many "IranGates" have never been (or will never be) discovered ?
How many countries we have around the globe ?
How many North-alike are out there ?

Why is that such "shocking surprise" to some people ?
Kids.
Politics is all about : money, and nothing BUT money.

[bishop]

O. North played a key-role in "Iran <--> Contras" enterprise. It was not legal ? Really ? SO WHAT ?

that sure says a lot about you...

accountability must be a debatable term in your eyes.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by bishop, that sure says a lot about you... accountability must be a debatable term in your eyes.

#2
That is called : "realities", and not "accountability".
They should choose me :-))) No data would ever emerge to see the day-light.
#1
Off Topic
What do you want to know about me ? :-)))

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Rainbow, - on the bottom Numerous other entries contain references to individuals or events which Subcommittee staff has determined have relevance to narcotics, terrorism, or international operations, but whose ambiguities cannot be resolved without the production of the deleted materials by North and his attorneys. I seems some people in this world are after a "cheap sensentional materials", which posted on the Net may turn an attention on "authors". What do those people want to achieve ? Medals ? Profits ? "Fame" ?

Apparently the subcommittee was trying to achieve the knowledge of who ELSE was operating outside the law, and not just North, who destoryed the evidence. Members of subcommittees don't ordinarily recieve medals, profits OR fame so your inference to an ulterior motive doesn't hold water.

O. North played a key-role in "Iran <--> Contras" enterprise. It was not legal ? Really ? SO WHAT ? North did the job assigned to him. That is was his duty to comply with it. The Army all over the world do it, on daily bases.

"So what" that it was illegal? Would you expect the same defense to work for anyone else who breaks laws? As for North's "duty", unless they have changed it recently, it is part of the military code to allow soldiers to refuse orders which are illegal. Of course, you are right that it happens all the time, but does that justify it? Do you think this is something North should be proud of?

Has somebody suddenly discovered that this whole world is based on small or big "IranGates" ? How many "IranGates" have never been (or will never be) discovered ? How many countries we have around the globe ? How many North-alike are out there ?

Status quo? What if North was working for Clinton?

Why is that such "shocking surprise" to some people ? Kids. Politics is all about : money, and nothing BUT money.

Don't forget power. Most of these guys take a pay CUT when they leave the private sector.

Look, I understand why some people support government criminals. I have to admit a grudging admiration for G. Gordon Liddy, who said he was working for the President of the United States and obeyed any order the man gave. And even though he faced jail he would do it all over again. That's loyalty, and a president SHOULD have people that loyal to him, but not to break laws. The trick is to have a president who doesn't ASK his people to break any law.

Ollie North doesn't even have that measure of class that Liddy did. He tried to weasel out of his crime by claiming he was following the orders of the president. It didn't work for the Nazis and it shouldn't work for North and his ilk.
And it's precisely your blanket acceptance of his crimes that keep these "Irangates", Watergates, and all the other "gates" popping up all the time. As long as the criminals in our government know there are a lot of people willing to say "you're my guy so breaking laws is OK" they will not have much of an incentive to stop.

[Technosoul]

I would add to those comments to Rainbow by saying who made misstakes? Ollie North and his higher ups did not just goof as indicated, they absolutly knew what they were doing, and Ollie was not working independantly of his bosses Reagan or Bush Sr. who were kept in the loop and informed about each problem or operation being undertaken.

And one of the aftermaths of the Iran Contra exposure were some laws effeect from Congress that would further prevent the CIA from conducting secret wars, their only purpose is to collect information.

Reality is Bin Laden sent terroorists on suicide missions to kill Ameircans, does that reality justify us to do the same thing in forien countries, I do not think so.

Technosoul.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Scribbler1, "So what" that it was illegal? Would you expect the same defense to work for anyone else who breaks laws? As for North's "duty", unless they have changed it recently, it is part of the military code to allow soldiers to refuse orders which are illegal. Of course, you are right that it happens all the time, but does that justify it? Do you think this is something North should be proud of? Status quo? What if North was working for Clinton? Don't forget power. Most of these guys take a pay CUT when they leave the private sector. Look, I understand why some people support government criminals. I have to admit a grudging admiration for G. Gordon Liddy, who said he was working for the President of the United States and obeyed any order the man gave. And even though he faced jail he would do it all over again. That's loyalty, and a president SHOULD have people that loyal to him, but not to break laws. The trick is to have a president who doesn't ASK his people to break any law. As long as the criminals in our government know there are a lot of people willing to say "you're my guy so breaking laws is OK" they will not have much of an incentive to stop.

#1
It was against U.S. Law, and against U.S. policy, BUT :
- somebody had to comply with that assigned task
It turned out to be "Ollie" :-)))
I think North had such option to decline, but he decided to go for that.
I do not know whether North is proud of what he did, but I think that if he goes again then he most likely would "protect his ass" much better, this time.
#3
That is the whole "ball game" about : power.
Once having a power, money comes easy.
#4
I do not take North's actions as a "criminal nature". North did what it was required him to comply with.
Whom this part have you "dedicated" to ? :-)))
#5
We are all people, and only. Politicians are not any exceptions.
#2
This point makes me laugh, really.
Do you mean, that it would be better if "Ollie" could have replced Monica (Levinsky) ??? :-)))))
I see them both (Bill and Ollie) while "debating" in White House (under Bill's desk) :-)))))

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Technosoul, Ollie North and his higher ups did not just goof as indicated, they absolutly knew what they were doing, and Ollie was not working independantly of his bosses Reagan or Bush Sr. who were kept in the loop and informed about each problem or operation being undertaken. Reality is Bin Laden sent terroorists on suicide missions to kill Ameircans, does that reality justify us to do the same thing in forien countries, I do not think so.

#1
Of course North did not set that whole plan on his own. Guys with much higher positions did it, and North executed that mission.
#2
What U.S. should do, then ?
Send Osama e-mail with a request for a the next and "repeat action" ?

People like Osama understand 1 "language", only : power.
If such one is not applied, then they go ahaed for the next one.

[Technosoul]

Rainbow

First off Ollie did follow orders and made in clear he would not take the arrow during the Iran Cantra investigation and go to jail alone (for which reason he was given a pardon). But take the arrow for whom, who was giving the orders he followed? The next in command for him would be (then) Vice President Bush Sr. and Reagan.


In other words the father of our President GWB.

So fine, give Ollie your free pass and put Bush Sr. in the clinger for a few years. How about that?

Technosoul.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Technosoul, In other words the father of our President GWB. So fine, give Ollie your free pass and put Bush Sr. in the clinger for a few years. How about that?.

#1
According to political structure and hierarchy, it could be that Bush Sr. issued orders, but we may speculate on that, only.
Why ?
Because it never came out any single word, who could possibly decide about "covert actions", especially in that time.
#2
No problem.
Bush Sr. would probably ask for a vacation :-)))

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Rainbow, #1 It was against U.S. Law, and against U.S. policy, BUT : - somebody had to comply with that assigned task It turned out to be "Ollie" :-))) I think North had such option to decline, but he decided to go for that. I do not know whether North is proud of what he did, but I think that if he goes again then he most likely would "protect his ass" much better, this time.

Like I said, I agree with that. It isn't easy to tell your superior you refuse to follow an order, even if it IS allowable. Regardless, he broke the law and was caught. There can be no exceptions if you'd really like to see an end to all these "gates".

As for protecting his ass a little better, my feeling is with todays administration and political climate, North wouldn't have to BOTHER covering himself. It would be chalked up as those nasty old Liberals going after a good American.
Since this is a nation of laws, I don't apply the "good American" label to Oliver North.

#3 That is the whole "ball game" about : power. Once having a power, money comes easy.

My point was that these people already HAVE all the money they could ever want. The power is just a substitute for the thrill of GETTING rich. People can get awfully bored when they can buy anything in the world and the rush of acquiring wealth is gone.

#4 I do not take North's actions as a "criminal nature". North did what it was required him to comply with. Whom this part have you "dedicated" to ? :-)))

I don't follow you.

#5 We are all people, and only. Politicians are not any exceptions.

I think, as they want to be elected by us, and are supposed to work for us, they should be BETTER than us. Morality isn't all that hard a concept.

#2 This point makes me laugh, really. Do you mean, that it would be better if "Ollie" could have replced Monica (Levinsky) ??? :-))))) I see them both (Bill and Ollie) while "debating" in White House (under Bill's desk) :-)))))

Shit, I'll be seeing THAT in my dreams tonight! Thanks a lot, Bud.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Rainbow, According to political structure and hierarchy, it could be that Bush Sr. issued orders, but we may speculate on that, only. Why ? Because it never came out any single word, who could possibly decide about "covert actions", especially in that time. #2 No problem. Bush Sr. would probably ask for a vacation :-)))

I think pappy was out with Al Gore drinking root beer and then had to use the john when all this came up.

The only thing I can see is that Bush 1 was a former head of the CIA, so that makes it LIKELY that he knew something, but I doubt there is any evidence to that after all these years. That, plus the Gipper having ridden off into the sunset leaves us with essentailly squat.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Scribbler1, There can be no exceptions if you'd really like to see an end to all these "gates". As for protecting his ass a little better, my feeling is with todays administration and political climate, North wouldn't have to BOTHER covering himself. It would be chalked up as those nasty old Liberals going after a good American. My point was that these people already HAVE all the money they could ever want. The power is just a substitute for the thrill of GETTING rich. People can get awfully bored when they can buy anything in the world and the rush of acquiring wealth is gone. I don't follow you. Shit, I'll be seeing THAT in my dreams tonight! Thanks a lot, Bud.

#1
It is never-ending story, as long as we all belong to Homo Sappiens.
#2
It may be true, but an "impression" will be cordially welcomed :-)))
#3
The whole thrill is about : not having money, but power, instead.
It is much more "exciting" :-)))
#4
That point should be addressed to politicians, especially "shadowy-figures".
#5
Come On :-)))))
Just try to imagine : Bill and Ollie, and Monica between or aside.
Just take your pick :-)))))

[Technosoul]

Scribbler.

It is true that they did not goof like Nixon and keep a lot of documents, and what few might have been generated were reported to have been destroyed, a point that came out also during the Kerry chaired investigation. Some of the hearings moved to "classified questioning" not open to reporters (public). Even if those reports are made public later they normally block out names.

I think canidate Kerry who was deeply involved in those hearings knows who done what but cannot just make claims, like you said, without absolute documentation or something real tanable to support the claim. When and if elected he will know who to keep an eye on.

In my opinion, which is worth as much as a cup of coffee if you add a buck with it, is that anyone in-the-know would not mess with Bush Sr. He has more connections with the CIA network and private power groups that anyone intendeing to "get him" would end up as non-effective as John Kennedy and his brother. (if you know what I mean). Those guys don't mess around.

A number of private lawyers have attempted to bring legal action upon Ollie North and others because people who were killed but all those cases were tossed out of court (by implanted judges) as just being politically motivated, in spite of the fact they had boxloads of facts to be presented.

And most investigative reporting by private people are brushed off as being a looney conspiracy or just for selling a book. So we should not judge the book by the cover or Bush by the cover-up image of Americanism.

I will be researching for links for later postings to help confirm my opinions.

Technosoul.

[Technosoul]

http://www.skepticfiles.org/conspire/betray2d.htm

Above is an interview by a reporter of one of the men involved in the Contra drug trade during North's operation under Bush Sr.

It mentions on of the most famous private law suits that attempted to get into the court system.

Technosoul.