The Third Jihad: Radical Islam's Vision For America

[jose]

Quote by: Robert Marsh II Nono: This is the best explanation I can give, and needs to be incorporated with my previous post #8: >>>> Afghanistan: Opium Trade Control ($$$)! Taliban, Al Qaeda and various sub-insurgency groups had based their operations inside Afghanistan, in order to take control of the opium trade for financing insurgency operations worldwide. Q: Why Afghanistan? A: Opium control to finance global terrorism network. Terrorism's Harvest - TIME The U.S., NATO, and Coalition Forces had to stop this enemy from taking control of the Afghanistan government, and cut off its supply-line to opium trade financing revenue ($$$). NATO - Topic: Afghanistan, NATO's role in War in Afghanistan - CNN.com Taliban leader boasts of eventual victory in Afghanistan - CNN.com Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Afghanistan, al Qaeda and the Taliban The Washington Independent » Opium, al-Qaeda and the Helmand ‘Sideshow’

from your wiki link

Mullah Amir Mohammed Haqqani, the Taliban's top drug official in Nangarhar, said the ban would remain regardless of whether the Taliban received aid or international recognition. "It is our decree that there will be no poppy cultivation. It is banned forever in this country," he said. "Whether we get assistance or not, poppy growing will never be allowed again in our country."[62] However, with the 2001 US/Northern Alliance expulsion of the Taliban, opium cultivation has increased in the southern provinces liberated from the Taliban control,[64] and by 2005 production was 87% of the world's opium supply,[65] rising to 90% in 2006

so that arguement doesnt hold up

[Robert Marsh II]

I forgot Rule #1 = Never use Wiki in a debate!

Alternative source document showing Taliban/Al Qaeda financing terrorism through opium trade revenues :

http://web.nps.navy.mil/~relooney/0_New_3806.pdf

[The Black Ghost]

Quote by: Nono As I see it, Ghost and RMII have failed to answer my question in any meaningful way. What is the point of doing all this (even if you could), given the harm you're doing yourself in the process? What's your goal??

To not get blown up?
To utterly eradicate radical sects that destablize governments, kill countless innocents, and oppress people across the globe because of their misguided beleifs.

Basically it comes down to this: Enemy wants to kill us. We kill the enemy first.

Simple logic. Some people cannot be reasoned with and war is neccessary. Unfortunate, but a fact of life. The closer we are to eliminating these radicals, the closer we are to a world without war. Destroy those you must, and influence the rest by your actions (i.e. setting up a democratic government and building infrastructure to stop radicalism (which grows largely out of a lack of this)). When people are happy, they will have no reason to fight, or will be less inclined to at the least. Radicalism grows in the poorest and harshest regimes for a reason.

[Nono]

Quote by: RM 1. Take over and control Afghanistan.

Why would the outside world particularly care if they took over and controlled Afghanistan, brutal and nasty though they are?

2. Finance a world domination campaign of radical Islam using the opium trade revenues.

As I understand it, they've had plenty of support from oil money (much of it close to the Bush family).

And nothing has helped Islamic Crazies in the past eight years as much as the US crashing around the world killing people.

But -- giving your point the benefit of the doubt -- what if the Taliban "dominated radical Islam" (whatever that means)? How does this justify in any way the current military campaign in Afghanistan??

3. To spread and take over Pakistan, thus gaining control over Pakistani nuclear weapons --- to use worldwide in their campaign of horror.

Wait a sec, I thought the Americans always complained that they're already in Pakistan. Please tell me how the doomed military campaign in Afghanistan is supposed to stop them "spreading to Pakistan".

You really should read up on the Pashtun. It'd be an eye-opener for you.

4. To rise up worldwide and dominate, kill, and/or enslave all who do not follow their doctrine.

How -- again, assuming this is true -- could the current military campaign in Afghanistan possibly have any effect on this??

Think for a minute. Afghanistan is a dirt-poor mountainous country. What happens there can hardly be of great concern to the US.

You guys have yet to offer anything the least bit convincing as to what the US could possibly achieve there.

[Robert Marsh II]

Nono:

I happen to agree with Black Ghost's posts #2, #7, and #23; although I do concede to incorporate the Bush oil money financing connection, and have already stated that Afghanistan is a 'no win scenario' by historic standard.

The United States had to seek out the perpetrators of 9/11, and they were operating inside Afghanistan.

Nations usually retaliate by seeking out their enemy, and radical Islam (Osama bin Laden) was directly connected to the 9/11 terror-event.

Using your logic Nono, the U.S. should have just ignored the mass devastation of 9/11, smiled, and said 'Have a nice day', then gone on as if nothing had happened.

Doing this would have just led to another immediate attack, the next, and the next . . . etc.

Regardless of oil money guilt, a nation has the right to defend itself ----

And it was Osama bin Laden who decided to use the oil money to draw 'first blood', rather than drilling the oil that he was supposed to --- for our gas guzzling cars!

He is the one that became the 'loose-canon zealot', and decided his eternal spiritual mission was to bring about Armageddon and Islamic world domination.

I think the oil, then the opium went to his head!

Excessive amounts of money always corrupts 'absolutely'!!!

If I had to make the personal decision myself, knowing that to pursue this course was non-attainable, but also realizing I had no other choice than being ultimately destroyed ----

Then I would have made the same unfortunate exact same decision, because I could not have just sit and waited for their operations to continue to grow, with multiple U.S./world attacks, and final annihilation down the road!

Your logic Nono, reduces the U.S. to being completely unjustified and going to Afghanistan to improve our suntans and kill some folk for fun.

I do not subscribe to that interpretation.

This debate is supposed to zero in on terror-cells operating currently inside the United States, however these posts are related by cause and effect.

I am not trying to convince you of anything, other than the fact that history is now written as it has become, and that I believe the events that are yet to come will then explain these events in better detail.

[jose]

Osama has never been formally accused of the 911 attacks
Most Wanted Terrorist - Usama Bin Laden

[The Black Ghost]

And I also hate that people call Afghanistan as a "hopeless and unwinnable war". How is that judgement being made?


The same thing was said about Iraq (regardless of your thoughts on the war itself) obviously things turned around there quite a bit. Its still not perfect, but I think its safe to say it was indeed winnable, even if it turned out to be a lot harder than it was originally thought because of the influx of foreign militants, etc...

Afghanistan is nowhere near as difficult as scenario as the ethnically/sectarian charged Iraq war was. The casualties are only a fraction of Iraq...and yet people are already crying "retreat" even after major progress is made. This only goes to show how effective an insurgent force can be when they influence the media---it the epitome of what "terror tactics" means...to use fear (of killings/mass murder) to weaken the morale of the enemy public.



After 9/11 people called for blood-and they deserved it for the most part. But they expected a quick, simple war where the rays of god would burn the eyes out of the evil enemy. War isnt so simple (even if it appeared that way in the initial campaign). You have to be willing to take your convictions all the way--especially when the cause is definately one worth fighting for, and one that we cannot afford to lose.

[Robert Marsh II]

I could not agree any more with your perception regarding 'convictions' to fight and win this crucial war - "one that we cannot afford to lose"!

However, in order to win a war, Americans would have to become unified under one cause, one decisive objective, and have the fortitude to see it all the way through to its final conclusion.

To accomplish this, Americans would have to possess a genuine faith and trust in their government, and in their governmental leadership.

Since paragraphs 1 & 2 do not exist, and then taking into account the hellish Afghanistan weather, terrain and tunnel networks . . . . .

Trying to succeed becomes truly futile and useless. . . . .

BUT IT'S "ONE THAT WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE"!!!!!!!!!!!

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - CNN Poll: Americans divided on Afghanistan war « - Blogs from CNN.com

Report: U.S. general calls for more troops in Afghanistan - CNN.com

[Nono]

Quote by: RM The United States had to seek out the perpetrators of 9/11, and they were operating inside Afghanistan.

Yeah, where is Osama anyway, after all this blood and treasure down the drain?

Using your logic Nono, the U.S. should have just ignored the mass devastation of 9/11, smiled, and said 'Have a nice day', then gone on as if nothing had happened.

Have you got a black belt in strawmanism or are you just pretending?

So, RM, they replied to 911 with Iraq and gave the Islamists the biggest boost in their history. Real good move.
Smiling and saying "Y'all take her easy now" would at least have prevented you from doing so much damage to your own country and world standing.

So after the whole mess, where are you now?

Doing this would have just led to another immediate attack, the next, and the next . . . etc.

I dare you to try to explain this statement. You think you've somehow discouraged them?? How?

[Nono]

The last couple of threads from RM and Ghost have consisted of a lot of patriotic platitudes and general points about "defending" oneself and not being a sissy.

OK, but no one has given what I asked for: a concrete and specific explanation of just what the US is seeking to achieve there. ------ What is it trying to make happen? What is it trying to prevent from happening? Why is it in the US's interests to be doing this?

C'mon guys, we haven't got all year.

[The Black Ghost]

Quote by: Robert Marsh II I could not agree any more with your perception regarding 'convictions' to fight and win this crucial war - "one that we cannot afford to lose"! However, in order to win a war, Americans would have to become unified under one cause, one decisive objective, and have the fortitude to see it all the way through to its final conclusion. To accomplish this, Americans would have to possess a genuine faith and trust in their government, and in their governmental leadership. Since paragraphs 1 & 2 do not exist, and then taking into account the hellish Afghanistan weather, terrain and tunnel networks . . . . . Trying to succeed becomes truly futile and useless. . . . . BUT IT'S "ONE THAT WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE"!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow.

So because no one has faith in the fact that we can win, we are doomed to fail. In other words--a self fulfilling prophecy. Here's the thing though--we CAN win--and have been winning all along, its just that some people choose to see only the negative.

[Trojan_Ripper]

Ohh, I get it.

Today is "hug a retard day"....and this just started a couple of days early.

[Robert Marsh II]

A Denver man and a New York City Imam were under arrest Monday after court hearings on allegations that they had lied to official investigators.

Two held in al-Qaida probe after hearings - Security- msnbc.com

[Robert Marsh II]

It has been brought to my attention that a small group of individuals were unable to access the main video on post #1 of this debate.

The Third Jihad: Radical Islam's Vision for America - 30-minute version

The Third Jihad: Radical Islam's Vision For America

Here are some alternative sources for:

"The Third Jihad: Radical Islam's Vision For America".

The Third Jihad

The Third Jihad - Watch the Documentary Film for Free - SnagFilms

The Third Jihad- Radical Islam's Vision for America Video

[Robert Marsh II]

This is an update continuation of Post #33, and has been listed as 'Breaking News' on CNN:

Source: Feds seek about a dozen people in terror investigation - CNN.com

[Robert Marsh II]

"The Two Faces of Islam" is the most important concept, that many Americans have 'not' totally grasped as yet, and should be researched thoroughly in order to understand the Radical Islamic principles.

Many people are just now realizing, that radical Islam arose from militants inside traditional Islam, that studied Western culture and adapted their principles specifically for a war with the West.

Most of the radical Islamic leaders have attended U.S. universities in the West, prior to their conceptualizing their radical views, then training and deploying their terrorist acts of violence.

Thus the birth of the Holy Jihad (Holy War) against the world, and the stakes are global domination and/or eternal death.

Terror-cells are now operating inside the United States, and pose a high-level current threat (See posts #33 & #35).

This is the purpose of this debate --- to seek out radical Islam operating inside the United States, and estimate the possible impacts of another successful terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

The Western Mind of Radical Islam

The American Muslim (TAM)

YouTube - Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West (1 of 10)

YouTube - how dangerous is radical islam in america

YouTube - can Muslim be modern The Two faces of Muslims

YouTube - Muslims in America with Radical Views

THE TWO FACES OF ISLAM ANTAGONISTIC IMPERIALIST RELIGION REMAINS ESSENTIALLY ROOTED IN THE DARK AGES.(Commentary / Editorial) - Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO) | Encyclopedia.com

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/onl..._Of_Islam.aspx

The Two Faces of Islam

Welcome to Islam-Watch

Islam Watch - "The Two Faces of Islam?" by Ali Sina

Amazon.com: The Two Faces of Islam: The House of Sa'ud from Tradition to Terror (9780385506922): Stephen Schwartz: Books

Amazon.com: The Two Faces of Islam: Saudi Fundamentalism and Its Role in Terrorism (9781400030453): Stephen Schwartz: Books

[Nono]

And whatever you do, don't go answering any of the questions I've posed on this thread. (rolls eyes)

[Robert Marsh II]

The following journalist's blog-article gives a genuine good look into the core-heart of Radical Islam, and complements posts #33, #35, & #36 in this U.S. terrorism related debate!

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/st...h-in-new-york/

[Robert Marsh II]

Many nations having Shariah Law or Mullah Rule in the world are continuing to commit various forms of atrocities in the name of Islam.

Terror-cells have been forged inside these radical regimes, and have then been deployed globally ----

With multiple small-faction splinter-cells also entering the United States to commit these same acts of terror.

American Chronicle | Nasty side of radical Islam

[dan4reason]

Quote by: Robert Marsh II I bring this topic to the Volconvo front-burner in order to have this issue publicly debated. Propaganda versus Truth is the debate. The Third Jihad focuses on an FBI discovered secret document now being viewed by the public -- the manifesto for the American Muslim Brotherhood of Radical Islam, operating inside the United States to destroy Western civilization from within. The Third Jihad: Radical Islam's Vision for America - 30-minute version The Third Jihad: Radical Islam's Vision For America (Video) - Care2 News Network There is a growing number of anti-radical Islamic groups forming inside the U.S., and this is for those interested in being made aware of what is going on around them : Home | Fighting Radical Islam Why Moderate Muslim Nations Should Be Supporting NATO Forces In Afghanistan U.S. Mosques | Fighting Radical Islam Islamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There are many people who actually believe we are at war inside Afghanistan and Iraq, and that someone flew some planes into the Pentagon and Twin Towers on September 11th, 2001. Was this the end of the attack, or just the long-term beginning to a much longer and more patient chain of events yet to come??? ====================== *Related C2NN Article: The Coming of the 12th Imam: Islamic Harbinger of Apocalypse... - Care2 News Network

Since there seems to be few muslims in the US, this does not seem to be much of a problem.