Insurance and Healthcare

[barnhardt2010]

Quote by: rmnunez So get ready for some more rhetoric and baloney from Obama tonight, and not much specifics on how he proposes to pay for this wonderful and universal health care so many united statians when polled both welcome and repudiate. quote: Instead of sending out his people and saying the president isn’t ruling anything out, members would like a little bit of clarity on what he would support –especially on how to pay for his health reform bill,”

If it all goes to hell in a hand basket, they want to be able to blame it on the President as it would be his idea.

[NoJingoLingo]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 Id rather them take it out of the taxes they already collect and cut expenditures elsewhere. And thats public healthcare to those who need it. And I wouldnt be opposed to the public paying the private healthcare system to provide it

Why should we pay the very companies who have screwed up our health care and who are the very problem?

[tengers]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 Suspicious of government providing public healthcare for everybody instead of providing public healthcare for those who cannot afford it. Notice how the most massive increase in government entittlements in decades, the prescription drug modernization act was passed by a Republican Congress and President. Had they tried to make prescription drugs for everybody a "public" function of government, it wouldnt of standed a chance.

This was a pretty lousy act wasn't it. This is the one where the Medicare patients that get transferred to private insurers end up getting paid huge premium increases over their average policy. I also believe the Bush White House lied about the real cost. I think they told Congress it was going to cost much less than it really would cost per the terms of the agreement with the insurance companies. It is up something like 200 to 300% from whatever Congress was told. Among other things, the drug companies got a provision that the Government was prohibited from negotiating drug prices. That would be like buying fighter planes without a bid or any competition. Isn't that how we got $300 million F22's. This Act didn't save anyone but the drug Industry.

[barnhardt2010]

Quote by: NoJingoLingo Why should we pay the very companies who have screwed up our health care and who are the very problem?

Said I wouldnt be opposed. If done correctly, one governemnt provider could probably cut costs but Im not comitted one way or another as to who provides the care to those who cannot afford it.

[barnhardt2010]

Quote by: tengers . This Act didn't save anyone but the drug Industry.

Nonsense. Prior to its enactment there was no prescription benefit in medicare. Now $Billions is spent to provide prescription drugs to seniors who would have had to pay for themselves otherwise. You can whine about inefficiencies or a failure to squeeze out of the pharmeceutical industry, some of its profit. But the fact remains that millions of seniors receive prescription drugs paid for by medicare.

[Century 25]

Quote by: NoJingoLingo Why should we pay the very companies who have screwed up our health care and who are the very problem?

We.. this country.. are in deep trouble. Obama is in the position of trying to bail out the Pacific ocean with a fork. Then too.. he must contend with the sharks trying to eat him. This 'problem' is all about greed and the special interest groups that paid for the privilege of draining our pockets.. for less & care.

Michael Moore - his movie 'Sicko' was dead on. He dredged up the data and references to back him up. The big Pharma-AMA syndicate.. even Bush's cronies.. couldn't hang his ass. It was all there. Here is a bit from what MM found on Nixon & how we started down the road to ruin:

The origins of the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 are presented using a taped conversation between John Ehrlichman and President Richard Nixon on February 17, 1971; Ehrlichman is heard telling Nixon that "...the less care they give them, the more money they make", a plan that Nixon remarked "fine" and "not bad". This led to the expansion of the modern HMO-based health care system. Connections are highlighted between Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the lobbying arm of the largest drug companies in the United States, lobbying groups in Washington D.C., and the United States Congress.

Another quote from 'Sicko'

Against the backdrop of the history of the American health care debate, opponents of universal health care are set in the context of 1950s-style anti-communist propaganda. A 1960s record distributed by the American Medical Association and narrated by Ronald Reagan warns that universal health care could lead to communism. In response, Moore shows that socialized public services like police, fire service, postal service, public education and community libraries have not led to communism in the United States.

Yep. I agree. The tripe spewed by these $50,000,000 a year propagandists (Rush Limbaugh) is all scare tactics. Just think.. who and why would anyone pay Limbaugh & Hannity and others.. such big money..?? I mean.. like, Limbaugh.. he's on for 3 hours a day.. and gets 50 million a year from..?? From the syndicate.. to promote their garbage.

And people just.. shrug. What can be done..? Obama is trying..

[tengers]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 Nonsense. Prior to its enactment there was no prescription benefit in medicare. Now $Billions is spent to provide prescription drugs to seniors who would have had to pay for themselves otherwise. You can whine about inefficiencies or a failure to squeeze out of the pharmeceutical industry, some of its profit. But the fact remains that millions of seniors receive prescription drugs paid for by medicare.

The way this program works is that the patient pays 70% of the first $6,150 of prescription drug costs + a monthly charge. Now if it was 30%, I'd call it insurance, but 70% is not really insurance for most people, although it is useful when your bill for prescition drugs goes past $6,150 in a given year. The average drug bill for a Medicare user is about $2500. The VA pays 58% of the Prescriptive drug cost that this legislation allows the Drug companies to charge the patient under Medicare. Please note, this is annual, not cumulative for a disease. So, it is possible that with $10,000 worth of inflated drug prices, you could be out $7,000 over a 16 month period If the patient had bought the drugs via the VA, they would have been $5800, not $7,000.

[barnhardt2010]

Quote by: tengers The way this program works is that the patient pays 70% of the first $6,150 of prescription drug costs + a monthly charge. Now if it was 30%, I'd call it insurance, but 70% is not really insurance for most people, although it is useful when your bill for prescition drugs goes past $6,150 in a given year.

Well, had I argued that the government provided insurance, you would of had a point relevant to the post youve decided to respond to. You do that alot.

[Zeebadee]

If the new plan includes all members of congress and the various federal parasites, then I'm for it. If, as I naturally assume, they will retain their own health plans apart from what they are dumping on us, I am opposed.

When I'm sitting in a doctors office waiting room, waiting for my name to be called, and my congressman or state senator is waiting along with me, I'll know my government has acted responsibly.

I will oppose any health insurance plan that doesn't include our (LOL) "public servants". After all, why should our "public servants" get better health insurance than their bosses??

[tengers]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 Well, had I argued that the government provided insurance, you would of had a point relevant to the post youve decided to respond to. You do that alot.

I think I said the plan you highlighted did not really help people as much as it supported the drug industry. You said, nonsense, and I showed you the figures.

[barnhardt2010]

Quote by: tengers I think I said the plan you highlighted did not really help people as much as it supported the drug industry. You said, nonsense, and I showed you the figures.

"This Act didn't save anyone but the drug Industry" is what you said. And its nonsense because It saves seniors money every day on what they would have paid before the benefit was enacted. Most every post of mine you respond to, you imagine what I am arguing, and you begin your efforts to refute what you have imagined. I never claimed it wasnt lousy, never claimed it negotiates lower prices from the Phamaceutical companies, never claimed it doesnt cost the government more than planned, I never claimed it helped people as much as it supported pharmeceutical companies.
I did claim it was able to be passed because it focuses on people who need help buying healthcare instead of everyone who buys healthcare. As usual, the only relevant point I was raising by pointing to the medicace prescription benefit, has completely evaded you. You cant see the forest with all the damned trees in your way.

[tengers]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 "This Act didn't save anyone but the drug Industry" is what you said. And its nonsense because It saves seniors money every day on what they would have paid before the benefit was enacted. Most every post of mine you respond to, you imagine what I am arguing, and you begin your efforts to refute what you have imagined. I never claimed it wasnt lousy, never claimed it negotiates lower prices from the Phamaceutical companies, never claimed it doesnt cost the government more than planned, I never claimed it helped people as much as it supported pharmeceutical companies. I did claim it was able to be passed because it focuses on people who need help buying healthcare instead of everyone who buys healthcare. As usual, the only relevant point I was raising by pointing to the medicace prescription benefit, has completely evaded you. You cant see the forest with all the damned trees in your way.

In this study, the savings difference before and after this act was on the order of $150 to $250 per year. When you consider that the act jacks up the price of prescriptions 40% relative to the VA or about $1000 on a $2500 prescriptive bill, it doesn't do much. For the past month or so, we have been conversing on this topic. I am simply of the opinion that our healthcare system has a lot of fat in it at $8000 each and this is a very good example or why Medicare is out of control and the numbers do not really support your contention. We are just paying too much for this muffler.

Out-Of-Pocket Drug Costs Before and After the Medicare Modernization Act: Are There Differences in How People Fare?

[barnhardt2010]

Quote by: tengers In this study, the savings difference.......

Bet he doesnt even understand that he is directly refuting his claim and supporting mine.

[Cruella]

Who are you addressing?

[tengers]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 Bet he doesnt even understand that he is directly refuting his claim and supporting mine.

Barney, whatever your point, it is obscure. The prescription Modernization Act was good for drug companies. That is what I am telling you. Having 11 million people being able to submit claims and pay 70% of a price inflated by 40% isn't a benefit.

[barnhardt2010]

Quote by: Cruella Who are you addressing?

NOT you.

[Cruella]

Stick to proper debate please, barnhardt. Thank you.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[NoJingoLingo]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 Said I wouldnt be opposed. If done correctly, one governemnt provider could probably cut costs but Im not comitted one way or another as to who provides the care to those who cannot afford it.

The government isn't providing the care, just like insurance companies don't provide any care. So why should we make a new system and reward the very industry causing the problem we now need to fix? It's a pretty ridiculous notion, no wonder the repub party is in the toilet.

[NoJingoLingo]

Quote by: barnhardt2010 Nonsense. Prior to its enactment there was no prescription benefit in medicare. Now $Billions is spent to provide prescription drugs to seniors who would have had to pay for themselves otherwise. You can whine about inefficiencies or a failure to squeeze out of the pharmeceutical industry, some of its profit. But the fact remains that millions of seniors receive prescription drugs paid for by medicare.

Medicare part D was RAMMED through Congress without any plan to pay for it, adding BILLIONS to the medicare system, has a doughnut hole that screws seniors and has no ability to negotiate with drug companies. Sounds like a damn good deal for drug companies and bad for seniors and our deficit.

I know you have trouble following links but here's one anyway

Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Raastee]

I thought Blue Cross got support from the government? That is not national health care?