China's new mandatory filtering software

[rmnunez]

Not sure its a good move, it suggests Google will not stand in the way of Chinese internet censorship. I understand how they'd want to abandon China due to the use of Google to hack clients and probably limit whatever responsibility they could have for this, but leaves its growing Chinese user base in the lurch.

[tinybear]

Here's another one of China's censorship tactics.

China mobile users risk SMS ban in porn crackdown

Wed Jan 13, 9:27 am ET
BEIJING (AFP) – Mobile users in China will be banned from sending short messages if they are found to have distributed pornography or other "illegal" content by phone, state media said Wednesday.
China Mobile, the world's biggest cell-phone operator, is helping Chinese police in a campaign to crack down on "illegal short messages", the Nanfang Daily newspaper reported.
Subscribers will have their text messaging services cut if they are found by the company's "checking system" or reported by other users to have distributed obscene, violent or other "unhealthy" messages, it said.
They will also be required to promise in writing not to distribute such content in future if they want their services to be restored, the report added.
China Mobile had 518.1 million subscribers at the end of November, according to the latest company figures -- more than 70 percent of the country's mobile phone users.

China mobile users risk SMS ban in porn crackdown - Yahoo! News

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: grandpa So, the software does to the computer what the government often does to the human being?

…and if left unfiltered, it is what the filtered information does not only to the human being, but also to the society as a whole?

Quote by: grandpa It's only fitting, I suppose. See, it's not that people shouldn't expect anything back from government -- but they should expect it to be either be a total disaster or quite incompetent.

Well, it would appear that a government is at least {competent} enough to realize that the borrower is slave to the lender?

I. China still likes us ... for now

II. China Worried About U.S. Debt
Biggest Creditor Nation Demands A Guarantee

III. China buys less U.S. debt as reserve growth slows

IV. China 'may cut US debt holdings'

V. China banks told to halt lending to US banks-SCMP

Proverbs 22:2-12
7 The rich ruleth over the poor , and the borrower is servant to the lender .

Quote by: grandpa In this case they apparently couldn't even make filtering software that works.

And what is it that has led you this conclusion?

Quote by: grandpa If you want todo something right -- be it tying your shoes or spying on and censoring your fellow citizens -- it's ultimately better to learn to do it yourself. Grandpa h.

…and to do it yourself? And all governments say Amen?

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: tinybear Because the USA and Britain are favorite targets of Muslim militants whereas China is only a minor target of a small group of insignificant terrorists who call themselves the Eastern Turks. The terrorist threat faced by USA and Britain is a hundred times more serious.

And Mrs. Tinybear, is it that we are to believe that these are the only existing terrorist threats that a nation such as China has to deal with? Or is it that this is just what you want for people to believe? How about the threats from other acknowledged nations? Are we to believe that the US is not a threat to China and its people? How about Britain? Canada? ETC…..

I. Containment

II. China versus America: 'Great Game' for Global Order?

III. The Great Dragon Awakens: China Challenges American Hegemony

IV. Global Military Alliance: Encircling Russia and China
US sponsored military partnership in the Far East and the Pacific Rim

V. China and USA in New Cold War over Africa’s Oil Riches
Darfur? It’s the Oil, Stupid...

VI. Washington is Playing a Deeper Game with China

So Mrs. Tinybear, if it is that we were to ignore the fact that acknowledged nations are themselves threats to a government’s existence, then we could agree with you when you say that “China is only a minor target of a small group of insignificant terrorists?”

Quote by: tinybear Oh by the way, have you heard that the guy who blew the whistle on corruption and collusion between unscrupulous building companies and corrupt officials in Szechuan has been put in jail for exposing 'state secrets'?

And isn’t this what is supposed to happen to you if it is that you divulge state secrets?

Quote by: tinybear In America he would have been given a medal of honor and invited to the White House for lunch.

And where is this individual? Has it happened yet? Or is it that there are no whistleblowers in America?

Quote by: tinybear In Britain he would have been knighted and personally received by the Queen.

And where is the Queen and this individual? Who are you trying to convince, Mrs. Tinybear?

VII. 1990: Secrets act gags whistleblowers

VIII. Reid to gag Whitehall whistle-blowers

IX. NHS is paying millions to gag whistleblowers

X. Gov gags “extraordinary renditions” whistleblower

[tinybear]

Hey, remember Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein? In China they would have been imprisoned in a 'lao gai' prison, probably for life. In America, they are widely recognized as two of the most respected investigative journalists in the country and were instrumental in securing the Pulitzer Prize for the Washington Post in 1973 for exposing the Watergate Scandal which brought down the Nixon Presidency.

Over to you Mr. M. Which Chinese was honored/rewarded for being a whistle-blower or for exposing the excesses of the state?

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: Ender Is your point Mr. Mxyzptlk that the US and the UK are just as guilty of filtering and surveillance and should stop their actions? Or are you defending the actions of the Chinese regime? I'm honestly curious, not attacking you.

Well, the point is that everyone should look in the mirror? And after looking, it is, that if you will note, the same people who are attacking China for what they deem to be {oppressive} Actions, are the same people who defend those same {oppressive} Actions when it is being committed by an entity that they approve of. Really, does Britain not employ filters, cameras, and other means of surveillance to watch the people that are gathered within its borders? Does the US not employ filters, cameras, and other means of surveillance to watch the people that are gathered within its borders? In fact, is it that you or anyone else can name a country that does not employ some form of surveillance to watch the people that are gathered within its borders? And yet, when it is that China, Iran, Russia, or any other countries that have been officially deemed to be {wicked} turn to use those Actions which are freely employed by others, it is that there is this great outcry from those who had been so {placid} up until that Point In Time? And, when it is that these are questioned about their outcry and their own approval of the use of that which they are condemning others for using, they are ready with a myriad of excuses to defend that which they themselves have said is {indefensible?} And of course, as you will note from the responses of some from this thread and other threads, these are the only excuses that should be justified while everyone else’s is not?





By the way, this is one of the {primary} reasons why one finds this phenomenon of {oppression} to be truly fascinating and hilarious at the same Time: Britain is known to have more than one and a half times as many cameras watching its people as China, but yet, it is that all that one hears about is the “oppressiveness” of China? It is that China is considered an {oppressive} police state while Britain is not. WHAT!

I. CCTV cameras get upgrade at police request

II. Britain is 'surveillance society'

III. Revealed: Big Brother Britain has more CCTV cameras than China

Quote = Article
“Britain has one and a half times as many surveillance cameras as communist China, despite having a fraction of its population, shocking figures revealed yesterday.
There are 4.2million closed circuit TV cameras here, one per every 14 people.
But in police state China, which has a population of 1.3billion, there are just 2.75million cameras, the equivalent of one for every 472,000 of its citizens.”


So what then is it that makes an {“oppressive”} state? It surely can’t just be the use of surveillance and the monitoring of the population? Otherwise, it is that Britain and all states should be viewed and labeled as {oppressive?}

[grandpa]

Quote by: Mr. Mxyzptlk Well, the point is that everyone should look in the mirror? And after looking, it is, that if you will note, the same people who are attacking China for what they deem to be {oppressive} Actions, are the same people who defend those same {oppressive} Actions when it is being committed by an entity that they approve of.

And this is probably a very generous way to put it. To me, it reflects how people go to the voting booth thinking what they choose will have no consequences. Through the power of being brainwashed into hypocrisy, we can adopt oppressive means, yet somehow not have oppressive results.

Grandpa h.

[tinybear]

In America, this guy would be a hero for exposing corruption and government maladministration. In China, he is treated as a criminal and is now a prisoner of the state.

Fury at jail for quake activist

DianaLee and agencies

Wednesday, February 10, 2010

A mainland activist who tried to document shoddy construction that may have led to massive casualties in schools during the 2008 Sichuan earthquake was jailed for five years for subversion.
However, the Chengdu, Sichuan, court that convicted Tan Zuoren, 55, of "inciting subversion of state power" ruled that Tan was jailed for criticizing Beijing's handling of the Tiananmen crackdown in 1989 in a 2007 article titled The journal of a witness in Tiananmen Square, Tan's lawyer Pu Zhiqiang said.

The ruling did not have anything to say about his independent probe into the earthquake or the young students who died when school buildings collapsed. Tan, who had agitated against their shoddy construction, was placed under detention on March 28 last year.

"The court was smart enough to leave out any mention of the earthquake from the verdict because judges are afraid of referring to it," Pu said.

Tan's wife Wang Qinghua and his relatives and supporters were barred from being present at his sentencing.

Fury at jail for quake activist - The Standard

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: tinybear RTHK English News Quake schools campaigner jailed 24-11-2009 A mainland dissident who tried to help victims of last year's Sichuan earthquake has been jailed for three years on charges of illegally possessing state secrets. Huang Qi was convicted by a court in Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan province where last year's earthquake killed at least 80,000 people, including children crushed in schools that collapsed. A veteran human rights activist, Mr Huang was detained in June last year after offering to help parents protesting that schools which fell in the quake were vulnerable due to shoddy and corrupt building practices. The government has said that 5,335 schoolchildren died in the earthquake or remain missing. Mr Huang's wife, Zeng Li, who attended the hearing, said he received the maximum sentence for charges of illegally possessing state secrets, but the judge and prosecutors did not say in the courtroom what secrets he was accused of holding. "They still won't say what the specific charge is, not even at the verdict. They just spoke of documents related to a certain matter," she said. "I think it was revenge for the earthquake and his other work. But the court would not even give me a copy of the verdict."

And Mrs. Tinybear, you say this to say what?

Secondly, China is a {sovereign} nation of how many people again?

Thirdly, is it that we are to believe that Mr. Huang did not have any documents in his possession that would justify his charges? That the charges were levied without Mr. Huang being in possession of documents which could be described as such?

Fourthly, let us guess: Next you will be complaining about how China’s one child policy violates human {rights?] Then you will follow up that complaint with one about how China’s overpopulation is violating more human {rights] because it causes some of its people to go hungry?

[tinybear]

Read the first two lines of my post. I should have thought my point was made abundantly clear.

[GPIRS88]

China backtracks, makes Green Dam 'optional' -- Engadget

I declare this thread to be a FAIL.

[tinybear]

Old news. Please refer to my post #22.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Quote by: tinybear What China proposed doing was totally different from what USA & Britain did. For one thing, the latter did it to protect its people, as is their duty to do so.

Oh yes, Mrs. Tinybear, one almost forgot that Golden Law: There are only a select few who have been designated to use the excuse of security and protection to justify their own Actions? These few are the only persons who are entitled to use the excuse of security and protection to foist certain procedures upon not only their public but also the universe at large? After all, it is that China is such that it does not have its own people to secure and protect? China is such that it has no threats to its government that it too has to deal with?

I. Containment

II. China versus America: 'Great Game' for Global Order?

III. The Great Dragon Awakens: China Challenges American Hegemony

IV. Global Military Alliance: Encircling Russia and China
US sponsored military partnership in the Far East and the Pacific Rim

V. China and USA in New Cold War over Africa’s Oil Riches
Darfur? It’s the Oil, Stupid...

VI. Washington is Playing a Deeper Game with China

Quote by: tinybear What China proposed to do was to control the minds of its people and to keep them ignorant of what's going on in their own country and in other parts of the world so that the authority of the CCP is not challenged.

And if it is as you say it is, is it that we should conclude that China is alone in this respects?

VII. Many Americans Unaware WMD Have Not Been Found

VIII. Poll finds half of Americans believe Hussein had WMDs

IX. World Tribunal on Iraq: Media Held Guilty of Deception

X The media are minimising US and British war crimes in Iraq

XI. “COMPLICIT ENABLERS" - UK MEDIA IGNORE US WHISTLEBLOWERS

Mrs. Tinybear, you yourself should know that the best mind control is the one that has been applied as such that the people have no idea that their mind is controlled. Really, it is not like such a Thing is all that difficult to implement? For starters, all that a State has to do is convince the populace that their Press is not a mouthpiece of the State? To be more exact, that while the Press of all other nations are mouthpieces of their States, their own is not? Their own is completely detached from the State and is merely an {innocent} bystander and observer? An {innocent} bystander and observer, who by the way, is simply {free} and {independent?} Repeat that enough Times and you create an illusion of impartiality, dispassionateness, and fairness? And with such a creation, the Press becomes a very {valuable} and {powerful} tool for mind control.

Quote by: tinybear This is something which is contrary to China's own constitution.

What is? Protecting the people of China is against the Chinese Constitution? Since when? Why would the people of China endorse such a Constitution? Why would they endorse a Constitution whose primary focus is something other than their own security and protection? Is it that we are now to conclude that the people of China do not care about their own self-preservation? That, as has been promulgated about the Iranians, they too are goverened by suicidal maniacs who are simply going against the will of the people?

Quote by: tinybear The motives are totally different. I hope you can see that and stop trying to defend the CCP.

Mrs. Tinybear, if it is that the CCP is engaged in essentially the same Actions as let’s say….. the USA and the UK, then if one is defending the CCP, would he not also be defending the USA and the UK?

Secondly, please explain to us how the motive makes the Action different?

Thirdly, are they not all motivated by the same Thing: Survival?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Mr. Mxyzptlk Oh yes, Mrs. Tinybear, one almost forgot that Golden Law: There are only a select few who have been designated to use the excuse of security and protection to justify their own Actions? These few are the only persons who are entitled to use the excuse of security and protection to foist certain procedures upon not only their public but also the universe at large?

I'll let Tiny Bear respond, but what you say above is largely what we are taught in school. Of course, most teachers only inferred it in one way or another.

Grandpa h.

[tinybear]

Oh c'mon. Don't be absurd. China is trying to protect its people? From what? All the CCP is interested in doing is to keep the people ignorant, indoctrinated, obedient and to stamp out any hint of independent thinking and dissent.

[rmnunez]

Independent thinkers and dissenters are the people who bring us innovation and change, if China stiffles internet communications it will hinder progress there.

[GPIRS88]

Quote by: tinybear Oh c'mon. Don't be absurd. China is trying to protect its people? From what? All the CCP is interested in doing is to keep the people ignorant, indoctrinated, obedient and to stamp out any hint of independent thinking and dissent.

I refer to the Ni hao thread :)

Let me get this straight.

CNN.com - Study: Geography Greek to young Americans - May 2, 2006

Most americans dont even know where in the world they are bombing. And you're calling the Chinese ignorant?

Lol

[tinybear]

The CCP is paranoid about Chinese getting to know more about the world and calling for more transparent and open government. Intellectuals who do know what the CCP and its officials are doing are imprisoned under the flimsiest of excuses.

Sure there are a lot of idiots in America, but that's not because the US government deliberately keeps them illiterate, ignorant & in the dark. It's because they are lazy and...well, stupid. These people, however, are in the minority. I don't think you can say that about the vast majority of Chinese citizens.

A government's duty should be to educate its people, to broaden their horizons, to encourage them to think independently. The CCP does the opposite. China will never become strong if this continues, no matter how its economy grows and no matter how many grand infrastructure projects it launches.

[grandpa]

Quote by: tinybear The CCP is paranoid about Chinese getting to know more about the world and calling for more transparent and open government. Intellectuals who do know what the CCP and its officials are doing are imprisoned under the flimsiest of excuses.

We're not perfect, either. After September 11th, I remember reports like this:
"The American Bar Association has been fiercely critical of the way that
prisoners have been treated legally. Its president, Robert Hirshon, said
last month on publication of a report on detentions of American citizens
without charge: 'With all due respect, we're suggesting that sometimes the
government gets it wrong.'"
Rough justice for many in US mood of mistrust

And that, of course, is a relatively mild criticism.

Grandpa h.

[GPIRS88]

Quote by: tinybear The CCP is paranoid about Chinese getting to know more about the world and calling for more transparent and open government. Intellectuals who do know what the CCP and its officials are doing are imprisoned under the flimsiest of excuses. Sure there are a lot of idiots in America, but that's not because the US government deliberately keeps them illiterate, ignorant & in the dark. It's because they are lazy and...well, stupid. These people, however, are in the minority. I don't think you can say that about the vast majority of Chinese citizens. A government's duty should be to educate its people, to broaden their horizons, to encourage them to think independently. The CCP does the opposite. China will never become strong if this continues, no matter how its economy grows and no matter how many grand infrastructure projects it launches.

People arent stupid in general. You think people in China dont know whats going on in their own country?

Remember that whole WMD's being in Iraq. How many Americans actually believed that during Bush's era?


btw

[I]US government[/I] deliberately keeps them illiterate, ignorant & in the dark.

remember no child left behind? lol