Obama Done Good

[Flangehead]

Quote by: Walrus It would appear that public opinion over here is going from “hating America” towards “liking America,” this would be largely down to Obama.

How're y'all gonna be feeling once Iran tests it's ICBM's and Obama has withdrawn all US ABM technology from Europe because he's afraid of Mother Russian?

Iran's launched a satellite already. Depending on the mass of the payload, that probably means it's soon to be finished nuclear weapons will be deliverable to just about anywhere in Europe.

I sure hope you guys are just ecstatic with your new president.

[Flangehead]

Quote by: Whatssnew Ok, well here is one difference, if Hitler and Obama met: Obama would want to have talks with him (like he does with other mass murderer dictators) and/or draft a hundred UN resolutions with little or no effect. Hittler would give him a signed agreement, takeover Europe, and then invade America, (as he had planned.)

So you're saying Obama is very very French in his attitudes....or possibly something like Neville Chamberlain?

[GeminiBrian]

Quote by: Whatssnew ... Obama is a wuss, and everyone (leaders of nations) knows it, and that he would lead us into the lions den if the lion spoke softly.

As far as leading the most powerful Nation on Earth goes in a volatile world, I would rather trust an educated man such as Obama, with an IQ in excess of the average, to an alcoholic idiot playboy like Bush and his warmongers who were an international sick laughing stock.

Whatever mistakes Obama might make, it won't be because he hasn't got a function brain... and you can't say that about most Republicans can you?

or most libertarians, IMO.

[Flangehead]

Quote by: xyzer Yes tengers... She has fine arms, an imposing build, wears sleeveless dresses to show them off, and is descended from slaves! Sometimes she commits a no no like patting the Queen of England on the shoulder but that is forgiven by the sympathetic press. She hasn't done or said anything but is a great fixture for our nation. Wisely and silently accompanying her hubby on his ministerial rounds? Evidently no one is holding their breath waiting for her to erupt in anymore condemnation of her own country. Surely you are jesting about her? She is a non entity to any but the press. And are you really serious here?... If so you better add that government pressures and creations of pseudo official organizations like Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae so disjointed the free enterprise system by pressuring and bribing business to make bad(un collectible) loans so that every citizen could own his/her own home? The Govt virtually insured them and unleashed a hord of profiteers. Even our Congress fueled by donations from the financial industry was in the game. Sen Dodd and Rep Frank assured the nation publicly several years back that all was well...When It WASN'T and thus fatally delayed corrective action? All the while both(and others) took donations and favors from the opportunistic gamblers on Wall street.

Michelle Obama?

OH!

You mean that black fashion model on all the covers of the grocery store magazines no one pays any attention to? Her, right? She supposed to be someone we notice? I thought she was maybe one of Paris Hilton's posse or something like that.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Flangehead Or didn't you notice the major slap Russia gave Obama just a few weeks ago?

LOLOL!! And how long did it take you to find something that didn't go just right. Oh dear me, Russia didn't roll over for Obama. Russia's Medvedev hails 'comrade' Obama - Apr.3, 09

Quote by: Flangehead The callow inexperienced Senator from the South Side of Chicago can't lead a kindergarten class in the pledge of allegiance. Open your eyes.

Ummm... okay. I open my eyes and what do I see?...

The Return of Statecraft - Fred Kaplan, Apr.2, 09

Obama Wins At G20: Europeans Lose Control of IMF - AFP, Apr.3, 09

Obama wins foreign policy victory - Daily News, Apr.4, 09

Barack Obama dazzles Europe with US campaigning style - TIMES ONLINE, Apr.4, 09

Europe leaders hail Obama victory - BBC, Apr.5, 09

Europe Reacts to Obama Victory - BusinessWeek, Apr.5, 09

Obama wins over hearts and minds in Europe - Reuters

Was there something I missed, Flange, or is it YOU who needs to stop spouting knee jerk blather and open your eyes?

Quote by: Flangehead Did Obama, Biden, and Pelosi die in a train wreck or something that hasn't been covered by the news yet?

{{Slaps knee}} Nyuck, nyuck! What, is that the Limbaugh cheap shot non sequitur of the day? Is there some sort of point in there somewhere?

Quote by: Flangehead So you're saying Obama is very very French in his attitudes....or possibly something like Neville Chamberlain?

Because after all... Boy George was SOOOO successful in his rootin' tootin' bonehead cowboy foreign policy.

Quote by: Flangehead You mean that black fashion model on all the covers of the grocery store magazines no one pays any attention to?

Attaboy, Flangehead. No pathetic, whiney little cheap shots for you! Nosirree!

Got any insults for Sasha and Malia too?

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[tengers]

At the G20 conference, which is the subject of this thread, the Russians said they saw a change in American policy that was positive and they saw a man they could work with in the future on subject of mutual interest.

[rmnunez]

Obama has done better than expected, that trillion dollars the G20 will pitch in for the IMF to help third worlders, the 5 thousand additional NATO troops from the EUers, and he didn't cave to Sarkozy's ambitious protagonism. I'm unaware of anything meritorious Mrs. Obama did. I don't think she dresses well, but this is a matter of taste.

it would be cool if our debates revolved more around the world's great political personalities instead of just political events.

I agree and propose a thread to debate how the world's leading figures address the issues. I think we should agree on who is included and then consider how they deal with whatever issues arise. I nominate the heads of state of the G8 as the world's "great political personalities" and maybe add one or two more so it doesn't get too complicated tracking down each's pronouncements and perspectives on whatver issue.

[Flangehead]

Quote by: Sonart LOLOL!! And how long did it take you to find something that didn't go just right.

You mean, beyond the fact that Obama didn't recite the Oath of Office correctly?

Nothing Obama's done has "gone right", since the measure of that is the Oath he took. That Oath was written in the Constiutiton. Nothing Obama's done has protected the Constitution.

And....Russia couldn't have slapped the boy if the boy hadn't done the damn stupid thing of writing a little letter of appeasement in the first place.

Not six weeks in office, and he already established his position as "junior".

Great Job!

Quote by: Sonart Ummm... okay. I open my eyes and what do I see?...

A bunch of sycophantic headlines that don't mean squat.

Kissing butt isn't statecraft. I figured the world would have learned it's lesson about that from Munich, but the people the refuse to learn that lesson refuse to read The Road Serfdom, too.

Quote by: Sonart Was there something I missed, Flange, or is it YOU who needs to stop spouting knee jerk blather and open your eyes?

You missed the magical effect of mob adulation for a charismatic messianic teleprompter reader.

In one stroke, Obama cowered before the Russians, told the Iranians there's nothing inside the suit, and made it perfectly plain to our Polish allies that we're not going to be there for them when the Russian tanks mass on their border.

Neville Chamberlain would be proud of that boy.

I'm not.

Peace through strength is a essential tool of diplomacy, second only to being able to secure victory through strength.

Making sure the wusses in Europe like the US, that's somewhere down around the bottom of the list of things the US should worry about.

Quote by: Sonart Because after all... Boy George was SOOOO successful in his rootin' tootin' bonehead cowboy foreign policy.

No. Bush was a liberal and didn't have a clue. Obama is a socialist, and is worse than clueless, he's ideologically wrong.

Quote by: Sonart Got any insults for Sasha and Malia too?

You can't come up with your own?

So long as they remain out of the public eye, I'll be happy to pretend they don't exist. Glad to see yet another brave White House resident that emphatically insists the unconstitutional public school system the average American has to suffer with is not good enough for his own kids, though.

Nothing like the expected dose of hypocrisy from the Left.

[Flangehead]

Quote by: tengers At the G20 conference, which is the subject of this thread, the Russians said they saw a change in American policy that was positive and they saw a man they could work with in the future on subject of mutual interest.

And once all the double-speak is peeled away..

...why do you people believe anything a Russian says?....Can't remember the abject subjugation of Europe, the invasion of Afghanistan, the endless little intrigues and disturbances in the Force as the Soviets tried to dominate the world?

....whatever....what the Russians meant is that they now have someone in the White House they can push around because he's a fool, and he proved that with his silly letter to them.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Flangehead You mean, beyond the fact that Obama didn't recite the Oath of Office correctly?

LOL Yessiree ladies and gentlemen, the cheap shots keep coming fast and furious. Obama got the oath right, Pumpkin... it was Boy George's Chief Justice who flubbed the oath, not Obama. How poetic that Bush's biggest appointee can't wade through a single paragraph without fumbling it. Obama simply had the good manners not to correct Roberts in front of the huge crowd.

Here, see for yourself A new president: Chief Justice flubs oath of office

Quote by: Flangehead Nothing Obama's done has "gone right", since the measure of that is the Oath he took.

In the two whole months he's been in office? Except that... wait... I just showed you half a dozen headlines confirming that Obama has taken a huge step in re-establishing that once undisputed U.S. leadership that the Bush League so recklessly and negligently trashed.

Quote by: Flangehead A bunch of sycophantic headlines that don't mean squat.

ROFL Of course...silly me. That's it... sycophantic headlines. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Quote by: Flangehead Not six weeks in office, and he already established his position as "junior".

I don't know what news reports YOU'RE reading. Once again, Obama took charge in Europe, and can't possibly do worse with Russia than Boy George, who Vladimir Putin made his bitch, despite Georgie's apparent ability to "see into his soul".

Quote by: Flangehead In one stroke, Obama cowered before the Russians, told the Iranians there's nothing inside the suit, and made it perfectly plain to our Polish allies that we're not going to be there for them when the Russian tanks mass on their border.

What??? By not stupidly provoking the Russians by giving Poland a nearly useless token amount of interceptor missiles they don't really want, to supposedly defend against a nuclear missile strike from Iran?????

Quote by: Flangehead No. Bush was a liberal and didn't have a clue.

ROFLMAOAHMSCIH!!(Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off and holding my sides cuz it hurts) Wooo, you're a hoot, you are. If Bush was a liberal, I can't even imagine what kind of off-the-chart Neanderthal that makes you.

Quote by: Flangehead You can't come up with your own?

Sorry, I don't insult the wives and young children of politicians simply because I disagree with them politically. I guess that must be some sort of "Family Values" thing that only conservatives enjoy doing.

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[xyzer]

Beware believing the "Headlines" Sonart? I'm laughing.

In the two whole months he's been in office? Except that... wait... I just showed you half a dozen headlines confirming that Obama has taken a huge step in re-establishing that once undisputed U.S. leadership that the Bush League so recklessly and negligently tra

The media is not noted for its accuracy. It certainly doesn't confirm anything but the opinions of the jesters who inhabit it. In particular those who write the Headlines tend to fabricate opinions of what the content means.There is no real confirmation that Obama has done anything but spout the usual rhetoric and without a teleprompter tend to drift off into illogical pitfalls,
What does seem apparent is this socialist community organizers belief that bigger government is required in virtually every facet of our society.
He stood by without comment as the Pelosi House and Reid Edifice crammed billions of dollars of pork into a stimulous bill? These weren't for 'shovel ready' projects either? Obama didn't lead! He just talked.

Staggeringly Obama and his merry band of socialist thinkers have quickly incurred trillions of dollars of debt and yet they haven't even started on their professed desire to give all of us health care and ravage our industry with costly environmentl restrictions which will cost even more? The small percent of us(tax payers) who have to pay for this extravagence shudder at the wild spending. Those receiving government largess just stand and cheer at the benevolence of our new Commander and Chief?

The immediate solutions to the credit problems we faced was even more ludricous. It didn't repair the government programs and mandates that set up the fall. Instead it penalized much of industry while allowing two of the main perpetrators of the problem to get off the hook? A Democrat Congress which refused to allow monitoring of the loan debacle and a Treasurey Department which wanted to forgive all monkey "business" by forgiving the main causes that big government created..Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as grasping citizens who sought to get something they couldn't or didn't intend to pay for.. Somehow the rest of US industry was claimed to be at fault? Private industry couldn't pay bonuses but Freddie and Fannie could?

Talk about the Bush Admin being reckless with our dollars. In three months the Obama Admin has obligated taxpayers to more debt than previously existed in the 200 or so years of this Republic? And whats more, billions of dollars of Pork Spending.. which amounts in us paying for the excesses of other states and communities?

And what about our reckless press? They stand and cheer about the bare armed beauty of the Presidents wife? the ringing(yet hollow) rhetoric of our new leader? Yet they ignore the future prospects of more savaging of the free enterprise system by an ever growing government?

Are we not just a few steps away from the oblivion of our free enterprise system?

[lsbskins1]

Steps away from the oblivion of our free enterprise system...

Wonder when the doctors I work for are going to have to turn all their operations over to the state? Will they get a letter, or will men with machine guns just show up and take over?

Has Exxon/Mobile been nationalized yet?

I'm looking for a new job, maybe I should just wait for my orders to come from Big Brother telling me which "collective" I have been assigned to.

As you can see, I am all for sarcastic hyperbole, but I try not to engage in the practice when it can be confused with presenting "facts".

[rmnunez]

As Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn wrote in RealClearPolitics.com:

"I believe President Obama has proposed the most significant shift towards collectivism and away from capitalism in the history of the republic. I believe his budget aspires to not merely promote economic recovery but to lay the groundwork for sweeping expansions of government authority in areas like health care, energy and even daily commerce."

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Xyzer The media is not noted for its accuracy.

How convenient for you, Xyzer. The mainstream U.S. and foreign press deluging us in news you don'tl like? Simple solution... they got it wrong, of course.

Heck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and FAUX News said so.
Obama's Debut on World Stage Yields Mixed Results -- FOX News, Apr.4, 09

Quote by: Xyzer Are we not just a few steps away from the oblivion of our free enterprise system?

Seems to me the free enterprise system is doing it's best to bring oblivion onto us. I suspect it's time to concede that Reaganomics has been a disaster, and that we need to put some sensible reins on the worst excesses of the free market.

Quote by: Xyzer Staggeringly Obama and his merry band of socialist thinkers have quickly incurred trillions of dollars of debt and yet they haven't even started on their professed desire to... blah, blah, blah

Y'know, before the invasion of Iraq, I warned everyone I could that it was a HUGE mistake.

But once we invaded, I shut my yap and kept it shut. The U.S. was committed to a course of action and as a loyal American, I figured that the best thing I could do was give Bush - and more importantly, the troops he was commanding - the benefit of the doubt and let events run their course.

And I kept my mouth shut and away from this board for seven months, at which point it was becoming increasingly obvious that I'd been dead right and I was free to say "I told you so!"

Xyzer, we know for a fact that Conservative control of our government was a bonafide, friggin' disaster, with massive debt, our military worn out, our global image destroyed, our people angry and divided, and our economy in tatters.

And you predicted otherwise. So why don't you give it a rest for a bit and let us see if Obama can repair the gawd-awful damage left by the Republicans.

Quote by: Rmnunez "I believe President Obama has proposed the most significant shift towards collectivism and away from capitalism in the history of the republic. I believe his budget aspires to not merely promote economic recovery but to lay the groundwork for sweeping expansions of government authority in areas like health care, energy and even daily commerce."

Good... Sen. Coburn's histrionics not withstanding. I daresay the past few years of unfettered free-market capitalism have ended in global economic disaster. Wouldn't you?

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[lsbskins1]

As Karl Marx wrote in Das Capital: The shifting of....

Now, if I were to actually do that, would you take that seriously as support for my position?

How about some factual information supporting the contention, and not an op-ed piece from a like-minded individual.

First off, how has his budget done that? Second, if it is true, want to give me some reasons why it is the wrong course? And by that, I don't mean a quote from Reagan on why government is bad. I want some hard numbers supporting your contentions. Something that would make me rethink the numbers I have found. Because from what I have seen, the masses have not fared well lately. Unemployment is up, lending is down, the economy is horribly unstable and we have had years of deregulation and hands off business policies from the Executive. I just want to know why you consider a shift away from the policies of disaster to be a bad idea. And, again, no ideological rhetoric, but some number crunching. I remember being told that my energy costs would go down if electric companies were let off the chain and "real competition" was allowed. So far, all I have seen are rising prices, less reliable service and fewer people willing to take responsibility for anything. We were supposed to get cheap electricity and instead, we got Enron. That is just one example.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Ibskins We were supposed to get cheap electricity and instead, we got Enron. That is just one example.

We were promised an "Ownership Society", we got the mortgage crisis.

Bush promised the benefits of deregulation with the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, we got the subprime loan crisis.

Even Bush Sr. got in the act in 1991, by deregulating banking to offer financial services outside of traditional banking.

In the "irrational exuberant" '90s, Sen. Phil Gramm, chairman of the Senate banking committee, starved the SEC of funding to actually regulate anything, and, in Dec. 2000, pushed through the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, the "historic banking deregulation bill that decimated Depression-era firewalls between commercial banks, investment banks, insurance companies, and securities firms"

Which, alas, Bill Clinton signed.

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[rmnunez]

Collectivization is the wrong course because it so resoundingly has failed in every case it was applied. I realize the idealized collective has never been fully applied, so in theory it could work, but we do have evidence it fails for a couple of irrefutable reasons:

a) people are not suitably productive nor adequately rewarded in a collective production system, and

b) the government poorly manages the operation of collectives.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: rmnunez Collectivization is the wrong course because it so resoundingly has failed in every case it was applied. I realize the idealized collective has never been fully applied, so in theory it could work, but we do have evidence it fails for a couple of irrefutable reasons: a) people are not suitably productive nor adequately rewarded in a collective production system, and b) the government poorly manages the operation of collectives.

Ok, regulation is NOT collectivization. Please show me the plans in Obama's policies that call for actual collectivization or give this ideological rhetoric up. I am so tired of it. If the government has a stake in a company, the government has a say, just like any other stock holder. You want either 1 of 2 things...bailouts without strings, which equals the socialization of loss but the privatization of profit, or you want nothing done. I see neither as a realistic alternative. So, lets try this again. Can you please provide something OTHER than rhetoric to support your contentions.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: rmnunez a) people are not suitably productive nor adequately rewarded in a collective production system.

On the contrary, in a capitalist systems, where the Nike headquarters are thousands of kilometers from its manufacture in Asia, it's kinda difficult to "adequatly reward" the worker.
Hell, the very definition of capitalism is to pay the worker less than it could be paid.

Quote by: rmnunez b) the government poorly manages the operation of collectives.

A bolshevik, centralized governement trying to rule over 22 millions of square kilometers of tundra, mafia and old heavy industry couldn't help but fail to manage its land. The same problems and the same result apply today with capitalist Russia, minus the relative social security it had under the soviet union.
But hey, again my Nike arguemnt apply: go in the indonesian industries and tell me if it's well managed.

[nerdvincent]

I'd like to make a comment on what Obama is doing: this is not socialism, this is what we call lemon socialism, also called CCPP game: commonize cost, privatise profit. It is despised by conservatives and real socialists, includinjg me, alike.
People put the money in the bag through taxes to save the compagnies, and as soon as they work again the capitalist exploitation system go on. If this doesn't happen, well the money is just plain lost.

Lemon socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia