Israeli troops out of control

[grandpa]

It all comes down to order, right Grandpa?
You mock the supremacist when it is a Jew and
close your eyes when it is quietly someone else and
let their delusions rule the day.

That's quite an assumption you've got there. Fortunately, I've proven capable of criticizing Muslim and Christian supremacists as well. But I'll leave you to your own judgements and feelings for the moment.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

So, it sounds like Hamas is using human shields at
this school, while attack Israeli soldiers.
The soldiers attack the terrorists and the civilians die in
the process.

Do you have evidence that this educational system was a Hamas headquarters, or do we just assume it "sounds" that way? Furthermore, you make it sound as if Israel is just passively committing acts, like they didn't have a choice in the matter, and that they simply must act because Hamas might have links to some school.

Grandpa h.

[Nono]

So victory for Hamas is the destruction of their citizens?

Bingo. You're learning. Keep chipping away.

[Diogenes]

The Palestinians will never stop their tantalizing Israel because they want Israel to not exist.

This is simply not true...in fact the Palestinians welcome those who lived with them prior to the forced occupation of their land by third-party sources.

The Palestinians have no desire to ' kill all the Israeli's '...they lived in peace with Jews for decades before the Zionist movement stated promoting a State of Israel...in about 1897 and illegally started a Jewish migration to Palestine.

The term ' destruction of Israel ' refers to the dismantling of the State on Palestinian land.

Only it's been changed to mean ' kill Israeli's ' it did not mean that nor does it mean that for most Palestinians.

They simply want Palestine back...and those Jews, who resided with them before, and their descendants, are welcome to stay.

Of course, now it's no longer simple.

[Nono]

So, it sounds like Hamas is using human shields at this school, while attack Israeli soldiers. The soldiers attack the terrorists and the civilians die in the process. Who is it using civilians as human shields again?

Gosh, Dieval, did I ever say Hamas didn't use human shields? Cite me an example of me saying that LOL.

Yeah, the Izzies will attack whatever they please without much thought to who actually gets killed. Then the Islamic crazies will find a way to take their revenge.

And round and round they'll go -- endlessy. With you cheering the Izzies on.

Have fun.

[Diogenes]

It might be worthy to point out here that the Nazi's had plans for Palestine while it was still under British Mandate...
they tried to recruit support from the Arab population ( including Palestinians ) to incite them to violence against Jews...

They found no support for any Arab uprising and were captured a week later.

BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Nazis planned Palestine subversion

[linda_mary_13]

This is simply not true...in fact the Palestinians welcome those who lived with them prior to the forced occupation of their land by third-party sources.

The Palestinians have no desire to ' kill all the Israeli's '...they lived in peace with Jews for decades before the Zionist movement stated promoting a State of Israel...in about 1897 and illegally started a Jewish migration to Palestine.

The term ' destruction of Israel ' refers to the dismantling of the State on Palestinian land.

Only it's been changed to mean ' kill Israeli's ' it did not mean that nor does it mean that for most Palestinians.

They simply want Palestine back...and those Jews, who resided with them before, and their descendants, are welcome to stay.

Of course, now it's no longer simple.

You talk about this "forced occupation", yet no one in the world recognizes a forced occupation except terrorists. The world accepts the existance of Israel on the land they exist on. The world accepts the Palestinians on the land they live on.

Your reasoning suggests the American Indians should try to take the land in America today, it just isn't going to happen.

Your cry of forced occupation falls on deaf ears in this world, including on the Muslim world. Do you think Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iran or any of those nations including Saudi Arabia care? They care about themselves only, and their people when they HAVE to. That is the way of the world.Meanwhile, a few angry, hate filled Hamas leaders, lead the Palestinians to a hell on earth. No one trusts the words out of their mouths, so the UN won't even negotiate with them. They have to have proxies like Egypt and France to pedal their sad story for humanitarian assistance. What kind of leaders, lead their people into destruction, with no forethought into medical care, electricity, food, shelter, gasoline. Why would they tempt the hand of Israel, by bombing them, with no thought to protecting their own helpless, innocents, like their children.

Hatred has consumed these people, and is destroying them through their own actions. The crying Palestinian mother should turn to her husband and ask HIM why they can't forgive and learn to live side by side. Ask HIM why there isn't enough medical resources available for the "poor woman and children", knowing that Israel would not put up with the prodding for long. Hatred is all the Gaza strip produces. Hatred lives in the hearts of the Palestinian people, and it is destroying them. That's what hatred does.

[Charlatan]

What else can be done in Gaza? Maybe if the people threw Hamas to them there would be no problem. Imagine a citizenry force that forces Hamas out into the open. When they take refuge they will be forced out into the open by citizens who do not want to die. Doesn't that sound logical? I mean if your local government is making it hard for you you should hold the accountable. What do the citizens think of the sanctions, that they were due to Hamas smuggeling weapons into Gaza? If the population agrees that weapons should be smuggled into Gaza then they are accomplices in this and should be also held accountable for ti. If they were against Hamas smuggling weapons into the area then they should have done something about it, or, voted in a new government. Maybe next time around they won't vote for Hamas, but as long as the people support Hamas there is no hope, so, get rid of them from within. The fact that Hamas gets to fly a flag over itself and pull people into the midst of their 'fight' is evidence that they are no good.

For the future I cannot see Isreal allowing stockpiles of weapons, but what if they did? If after this is all over and all sides are square they allow Hamas to illegally smuggle weapons into Egypt what will happen? I mean they will have no reason to fire at Isreal as there is no problem really - they might hate them but they won't exactly march into and occupy Isreal will they? If weapons are 'allowed' to be smuggled in, subject to government approval of course - as I can;t see Egypt wanting it's states to operate in this way, and they won't hopefully - they can get weapons. Then what will they do with them? Fire on Isreal? Why? Because they hate them? They won't recieve any backing from the Egyptian powers and then the Egyptian military will be called in to deal with the problem, so it will be all internal events. How will Hamas be able to justify lauching rockets then if there is no real conflict?

I say retreat from Gaza and 'let them smuggle' weapons in that probably won't be used justifiably in the eyes of the Palestinians.

[Dieval]

Gosh, Dieval, did I ever say Hamas didn't use human shields? Cite me an example of me saying that LOL.

I didn't SAY that. What I said was that HAMAS uses civilians as human shields while attacking Israeli soldiers, yet YOU blame those deaths on Israel. That makes no sense.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Both are at fault, Israel is the one putting its soldiers in impossible situations.

[Killroy]

What can be done in Gaza? I think the regional government of Hamas, that was elected by Palestininas in the majority of the strip, started it. What should be done, based on evidence, is outlaw Hamas. This will meet with resistance from the people though as they now would really want a state that protected agsint such attacks, but, seeing as how they are breeding a new wave of haters, they very well might be playing into the hands of Hamas for future generations.

What should have been done, and can still be done, is a troop witdrawal and a case for the powers that be. Based on evidence they can show how Hamas instigated the 'war' and that they are unfit to rule Gaza. If they attack innocnet civilians, due not to militray instigation, but rather to 'sanctions', they are a bad force to be let loose out there. The powers that be could outlaw Hamas and then the Egyptians would also see to it that they are taken away, and then sanctions can be lifted as it would be up to Egypt to make sure that nothing bad happends to Isreal from the strip. If Hamas is outlawed they could, lacking conformance to real laws, make a case against Isreal for the powerful courts that be. That way there would be no Hamas and no sanctions, eventually.

So everything can be settled without further bloodshed.

All well and dandy ,
except for the things that you fail to mention.

Israel is the perpetrator .
Israel was holding Gaza under siege .
Israel has invaded Gaza .
Israel are on record of contravening international law .
Israel is an apartheid state .

Apartheid is contrary to international law.

[Killroy]

It all comes down to order, right Grandpa? You mock the supremacist when it is a Jew and close your eyes when it is quietly someone else and let their delusions rule the day. Were you concerned about the poor healthcare of the Palestinians before the Jews made their move.? Were you aware missiles were stored in UN schools and public places? Where is your referral to psychiatric help for the Palestinian leadership, who continually place their people in such despair?

Or is this just an age old case of plain racism?

There is no racism in that post .