Modern Timeline of Palestine

[Matt W]

Once again. Drop the jibes and debate.

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[dixon]

Quote by: Killroy Yes , it did . Study a bit of history . The correct bit .

I have. Anyone who has would know that the Muslim conquest brought to an end 500 years of jews being expelled from Israel and prohibited from emmigrating to israel from anywhere by the Romans and Byzantines. There was a net migration TO Israel from Europe with the Muslim conquest. Precisely the opposite of what you allege.

[Killroy]

Quote by: dixon It didnt happen Killroy. Reality is precisely the opposite of what you imagined.

"" After 589, the Christian Visigoths of Hispania persecuted the Jews severely; therefore, the Jews welcomed the Muslim Arab and mainly Berber conquerors in the 8th century. The conquered cities of Córdoba, Málaga, Granada, Seville, and Toledo were briefly placed under the control of the Jewish inhabitants, who had been armed by the Moorish invaders. The victors removed the Christian Visigoths' oppressive restrictions and granted the Jews full religious liberty, requiring them only to pay the tribute of one golden dinar per capita (Jizya).
A period of tolerance thus dawned for the Jews of the Iberian Peninsula, whose number was considerably augmented by immigration from Africa in the wake of the Muslim conquest. Especially after 912, during the reign of Abd-ar-Rahman III and his son, Al-Hakam II, the Jews prospered, devoting themselves to the service of the Caliphate of Cordoba, to the study of the sciences, and to commerce and industry, especially to trading in silk and slaves, in this way promoting the prosperity of the country. Jewish economic expansion was unparalleled. In Toledo, Jews were involved in translating Arabic texts to the romance languages, as well as translating Greek and Hebrew texts into Arabic. Jews also contributed to botany, geography, medicine, mathematics, poetry and philosophy.[7]
'Abd al-Rahman's court physician and minister was Hasdai ben Isaac ibn Shaprut, the patron of Menahem ben Saruq, Dunash ben Labrat, and other Jewish scholars and poets. Jewish thought during this period flourished under famous figures such as Samuel Ha-Nagid, Moses ibn Ezra, Solomon ibn Gabirol Judah Halevi and Moses Maimonides.[7] During 'Abd al-Rahman's term of power, the scholar Moses ben Enoch was appointed rabbi of Córdoba, and as a consequence al-Andalus became the center of Talmudic study, and Córdoba the meeting-place of Jewish savants.
This was a time of partial Jewish autonomy. As "dhimmis", or "protected non-Muslims", Jews in the Islamic world paid the jizya, which was administered separately from the zakat paid by Muslims. The jizya has been viewed variously as a poll tax, as payment for non-conscription in the military, or as a tribute. Jews had their own legal system and social services. Monotheist religions of the people of the book were tolerated but conspicuous displays of faith, such as bells and processions, were discouraged ""

Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[dixon]

Quote by: Killroy "" After 589, the Christian Visigoths of Hispania persecuted the Jews severely; therefore, the Jews welcomed the Muslim Arab and mainly Berber conquerors in the 8th century. ....... Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, there was jewish "immigration from Africa" to Spain in the 8th century. Cant imagine what bearing you would imagine that this has regarding your claims regarding jewish immigration from Israel to Europe in the 7th century. I suspect your efforts to find evidence to support your claims regarding Israel, lead you to realize that maybe you should change the topic to North Africa.

[Killroy]

Quote by: dixon Yes, there was jewish "immigration from Africa" to Spain in the 8th century. Cant imagine what bearing you would imagine that this has regarding your claims regarding jewish immigration from Israel to Europe in the 7th century. I suspect your efforts to find evidence to support your claims regarding Israel, lead you to realize that maybe you should change the topic to North Africa.

I suggest that you read my posts again , I have made no mention of migration from Israel .
I spoke of the Jews who left Palestine voluntarily and crossed the Mediterranean to Europe , with the Muslin Conquest .
I have provided verification of that .
Africa to Spain was the common sea route taken .

I note that you have yet to back up your claim regarding the
'net migration TO Israel from Europe with the Muslim conquest'

[dixon]

Quote by: Killroy I suggest that you read my posts again , I have made no mention of migration from Israel . I spoke of the Jews who left Palestine voluntarily and crossed the Mediterranean to Europe , with the Muslin Conquest .

The mental acrobatics are always fun to watch.

[Killroy]

Quote by: dixon The mental acrobatics are always fun to watch.

So you have nothing then , to back up your claim .

[Diogenes]

net migration TO Israel from Europe with the Muslim conquest

Honestly I haven't read the back posts...but if he said that he is definitely wrong...the Ottomans specifically denied the immigration of Jews into Palestine, they were allowed to locate anywhere else however.

1881- Ottoman government announces permission for foreign Jews to settle throughout the Ottoman Empire, excluding Palestine

from my OP link.

Edit: oh, you're talking about the 8th century...then I don't know.

[dixon]

Quote by: Diogenes Edit: oh, you're talking about the 8th century...then I don't know.

Actually the Muslim conquest of Palestine was in the 7th.

[Killroy]

Quote by: Diogenes Any argument/debate regarding the area commonly referred to as Palestine/Israel should start from a general knowledge of the history that reflects the region... even though ancient history may be discounted as irrelevant to modern times, recent history ( the last 100-150 years ) of the foreign occupation of Palestine has significance to what transpires today... recent Jewish immigration into Palestine began as early as the 1800's in a concerted effort to populate the area to gain control over land and resources... CRONOLOGIA COMPARADA CHINA-AMÉRICA for the years following 1400 - 1962 1963 - 1988 1989 - 1990 1991 - 1993 1994 - 1995 1996 -

Crusader rule (1099–1187 CE)

During the period of Crusader control, it has been estimated that Palestine had only 1,000 poor Jewish families

[Diogenes]

Actually the Muslim conquest of Palestine was in the 7th.

I took the 8th from one of your posts. And was responding to Kilroys rebuttal post to one of your posts.

At any rate I already said I didn't know and excused myself from this part of the debate.

[Killroy]

Quote by: Diogenes I took the 8th from one of your posts. And was responding to Kilroys rebuttal post to one of your posts. At any rate I already said I didn't know and excused myself from this part of the debate.

I'm still waiting for his proof of 8th century Jewish immigration from Europe to Israel .
I wonder if it will arrive this year

[EscVelocity]

I'm inclined to believe that Israels occupation of palestine lands is only the tip of the iceberg, and America is knee deep in this with the occupation of Iraq. Will we be giving Iraqi lands to Israel as well?

Jewish society is deeply split. On one hand, many Jews believe that preserving Eretz Israel within the boundaries of the Promised Land is the Jews' utmost obligation. That Jewish opinion is valid, since it is based on Torah, and some degree of adherence to the Torah is that which makes Jews Jews. Other Jews, mostly secular-minded but some deeply religious Jewish people as well, believe that no Israeli territory is worth the life of a single Jew, since the commandments were given the Jews for life, not for death.

Judea, a second Jewish state in Eretz Israel, the land for good Jews

Eretz Israel HaShlema / Greater Israel

[Dieval]

Quote by: EscVelocity I'm inclined to believe that Israels occupation of palestine lands is only the tip of the iceberg, and America is knee deep in this with the occupation of Iraq. Will we be giving Iraqi lands to Israel as well?

You're inclined to believe this -

In February 2003 an audiotape purportedly from Osama bin Laden called President Bush "stupid" and claimed American war plans against Iraq were part of a plot to attack Muslim nations in the Middle East and North Africa. The United States' goal in waging war against Iraq is to change the regional map to benefit Israel, according to the raspy voice said to be bin Laden.

- because Osama bin Laden said so?? Seriously?

[EscVelocity]

Hmm, maybe Osama bin Laden is on to something....and no not just cause he says so. There is quite a bit of information out there that makes Israel seem like a prime suspect in the 9/11 bombings. It's not like anything like that has never happened before.

If Osama Bin Laden was really responsible for the bombings, then why don't we have him? Don't give me oh the mountains or treacherous. We have some crazy mad technology, we would have him if we really wanted him. Heh, put a billion dollar price tag on his head, someone will give him up.

[Dieval]

Quote by: EscVelocity Hmm, maybe Osama bin Laden is on to something....and no not just cause he says so. There is quite a bit of information out there that makes Israel seem like a prime suspect in the 9/11 bombings. It's not like anything like that has never happened before. If Osama Bin Laden was really responsible for the bombings, then why don't we have him? Don't give me oh the mountains or treacherous. We have some crazy mad technology, we would have him if we really wanted him. Heh, put a billion dollar price tag on his head, someone will give him up.

Prone to conspiracy theories, are we?
Sorry, I won't take this thread any further off topic.

[shrike]

Quote by: Diogenes No...all you did was make absurd statements that have nothing to do with the situation.

I see you don't have any real answer and posting from Palestinian propaganda source doesn't give you more credibility.
The thing is that Jews have every right to settle on the land their bought..
.

[shrike]

Quote by: Killroy It would be interesting to see the results of census taken before this one Quote: 1922- First British census of Palestine shows population of 757,182, with 78% Muslim, 11% Jewish and 9.6% Christian. Quote: Eleven percent is hardly grounds for claiming a 'homeland' ,

But know the Jews are majority in Israel. So according to your logic is ok now.

. And thats' not taking into account the Khazar origins of the Ashkenazi.

Do you have some peer reviews genetic researches that confirm your fringe theory?

[EscVelocity]

Quote by: Dieval Prone to conspiracy theories, are we? Sorry, I won't take this thread any further off topic.

LOL, i wont either :)

[Killroy]

Quote by: shrike But know the Jews are majority in Israel. So according to your logic is ok now. Do you have some peer reviews genetic researches that confirm your fringe theory?

This is not about logic , but about rights .

So no , corruption by numbers does not legitimize the situation .


Fringe theory , what are you on about ?