Kerry has the power, why do you defend him so?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Why? Its a simple question, why do those who are supporters of John Kerry, why do you go through the contortions to defend him against the Swift Boat Vets?


Seriously, I ask this for a reason, he needs no defense, and nothing you say can change two immutable facts.

1. John Kerry has the power to prove the SBVFT are full of crap, Republican Attack Dogs, the works, by simply releasing his records to the public.

2. He refuses to do this.

Those are facts, all he has to do is release the official records of his awards, his service in Vietnam, and the SBVFT are debunked, completely debunked.

Why do you go through the effort of defending him then when he has the most fool proof, the most foolproof defense at his fingertips. His service records.

Ya'll jump through hoops to discredit the SBVFT, but the fact that he wil not release his records and shut them down gives the SBVFT credibility.

Face it, John Kerry is faced with two choices. Release his service records and let the TRUTH come out, which ever way that it may turn out. Or, hide, duck, and run from the SBVFT and pray his supporters don't tire of this and demand he release the records and shut the SBFVT up.

As long as he refuses to release those records, the SBVFT have credibility. That credibility is given to them by John Kerrys refusal to release the records. Only he has the power to stop this, but he won't.

The real question is, why do the Kerry Supporters put up with it and not question the absurdity of it all?

[bishop]

The real question is, why do the Kerry Supporters put up with it and not question the absurdity of it all?

not to rain on your parade, but this entire topic is what's absurd.

and the fact that a man who never fought for his country is playing with this political football is another story.

what is the "truth" going to prove? that when the bullets were wizzing past kerry's head that he ducked? i admit, this topic is so utterly unimportant that i'm ignorant as far as the details go.. what did kerry do that makes him less of a coward than bush?

[Yankeefan21]

1. John Kerry has the power to prove the SBVFT are full of crap, Republican Attack Dogs, the works, by simply releasing his records to the public. 2. He refuses to do this.

You know you just got done preaching to me that I need to do some research on this area.

TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE BEFORE YOU MAKE THAT KIND OF STATEMENT



Swift Vets Funded By Longtime Texas Bush Contributors

Fox News: "Many Of Them Are Republicans Who Have Contributed To And Backed Various Bush Campaigns And Causes Over The Decades" "Kerry's military service was an asset during the primaries; critics hoped to transform it into a liability now. The GOP says it's not involved with the veterans criticizing Kerry, but many of them are Republicans who have contributed to and backed various Bush campaigns and causes over the decades." [Fox News, Special Report, Cameron, 5/4/04]

Dallas Morning News: "Veterans' Group Critical of Kerry Backed by Bush Supporter." Bob Perry, a major supporter of President Bush and the Republican Party, is the biggest financial backer of a veterans group seeking to discredit Democrat John Kerry's military service, according to federal records. Perry, a Houston homebuilder, gave $100,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group that has been critical of Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam. That accounted for two-thirds of the organization's receipts to date. [DMN, Slater, 7/23/04]
 
Swift Vets Operated By Same People Who Tried to Discredit McCain in 2000

CBS News: "The Press Conference Was Set Up By The Same People Who Tried To Discredit John McCain's Reputation." "The [May, 2004 Swift Boat Veterans for Truth"] press conference was set up by the same people who tried to discredit John McCain's reputation in Vietnam service when McCain faced George W. Bush for the Republican nomination in 2000. It's the same strategy used to go after Georgia Senator Max Cleland, who lost three limbs in Vietnam." [CBS Evening News, Pitts, 5/4/04]

Salon.Com: "Same Vicious Techniques They Used Against McCain" "Behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group's media contact… In 2000, Spaeth participated in the most subterranean episode of the Republican primary contest when a shadowy group billed as 'Republicans for Clean Air' produced television ads falsely attacking the environmental record of Sen. John McCain in California, New York and Ohio. While the identity of those funding the supposedly 'independent' ads was carefully hidden, reporters soon learned that Republicans for Clean Air was simply Sam Wyly -- a big Bush contributor and beneficiary of Bush administration decisions in Texas -- and his brother, Charles, another Bush "Pioneer" contributor." [Salon.com, Conalson, 5/4/04]


Straight from John Kerry's site

Want more? go here
http://www.johnkerry.com/rapidrespon...504_truth.html

Those are facts, all he has to do is release the official records of his awards, his service in Vietnam, and the SBVFT are debunked, completely debunked.

Once again shut your eyes before you click here okay? so you can repeat what you just said over and over again.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/...ry_records.html

Why? Its a simple question, why do those who are supporters of John Kerry, why do you go through the contortions to defend him against the Swift Boat Vets?

Because they are LIARS because they are shills for the Bush administration and the Republican party and proof of it has been shown you just refuse to acknowledge it.

We go through such contortions because we're sick and fuckin tired of this criminal administration resorting to outright lies in order to smear Kerry just like they did to John McCain and just like they and their Republican friends and shills in the media will continue to do if Kerry gets elected as they did with Clinton.

We're tired of the lies, we're tired of the right wing distortion machine, and we're tired of this country's good name being spat on in the name of greed.

Now I ask you. Why do YOU feel the need to attack a man like Kerry yet leave one of the most crooked if not THE most crooked and unAmerican administration unscathed?

If you have attacked this administration or found fault in its doings by all means show me some proof, gimmie some links, but as of now I won't buy this "I'm an independent voter" bullshit.

[Mr.Vicchio]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Do your research.

Where is the SILVER STAR and the OTHER 2 PURPLE HEART CITATIONS?

Where are the missing FitReps?

Oppps.

Don't drink of the Kerry koolaide so fast there guy. CASUSE HE REFUSES TO RELEASE THE RECORDS THAT ARE AT THE HEART OF THE SBFVT CHARGES.

Nice try.

[Yankeefan21]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, HAHAHAHAHAHA Do your research. Where is the SILVER STAR and the OTHER 2 PURPLE HEART CITATIONS? Where are the missing FitReps? Oppps. Don't drink of the Kerry koolaide so fast there guy. CASUSE HE REFUSES TO RELEASE THE RECORDS THAT ARE AT THE HEART OF THE SBFVT CHARGES. Nice try.

Scroll down IT IS THERE ALL OF IT IS THERE

Nice Try


By the way when are you going to answer my question now that I've answered yours?

[Suburbanite]

God I hate these stupid pet-issues in high-political seasons. Politics really drains you when it is polluted with these slander "issues".

[Knightpass]

[quote]

Quote by: Yankeefan21, 1. John Kerry has the power to prove the SBVFT are full of crap, Republican Attack Dogs, the works, by simply releasing his records to the public. 2. He refuses to do this. You know you just got done preaching to me that I need to do some research on this area. TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE BEFORE YOU MAKE THAT KIND OF STATEMENT Swift Vets Funded By Longtime Texas Bush Contributors Fox News: "Many Of Them Are Republicans Who Have Contributed To And Backed Various Bush Campaigns And Causes Over The Decades" "Kerry's military service was an asset during the primaries; critics hoped to transform it into a liability now. The GOP says it's not involved with the veterans criticizing Kerry, but many of them are Republicans who have contributed to and backed various Bush campaigns and causes over the decades." [Fox News, Special Report, Cameron, 5/4/04] Dallas Morning News: "Veterans' Group Critical of Kerry Backed by Bush Supporter." Bob Perry, a major supporter of President Bush and the Republican Party, is the biggest financial backer of a veterans group seeking to discredit Democrat John Kerry's military service, according to federal records. Perry, a Houston homebuilder, gave $100,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group that has been critical of Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam. That accounted for two-thirds of the organization's receipts to date. [DMN, Slater, 7/23/04] Swift Vets Operated By Same People Who Tried to Discredit McCain in 2000 CBS News: "The Press Conference Was Set Up By The Same People Who Tried To Discredit John McCain's Reputation." "The [May, 2004 Swift Boat Veterans for Truth"] press conference was set up by the same people who tried to discredit John McCain's reputation in Vietnam service when McCain faced George W. Bush for the Republican nomination in 2000. It's the same strategy used to go after Georgia Senator Max Cleland, who lost three limbs in Vietnam." [CBS Evening News, Pitts, 5/4/04] Salon.Com: "Same Vicious Techniques They Used Against McCain" "Behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group's media contact… In 2000, Spaeth participated in the most subterranean episode of the Republican primary contest when a shadowy group billed as 'Republicans for Clean Air' produced television ads falsely attacking the environmental record of Sen. John McCain in California, New York and Ohio. While the identity of those funding the supposedly 'independent' ads was carefully hidden, reporters soon learned that Republicans for Clean Air was simply Sam Wyly -- a big Bush contributor and beneficiary of Bush administration decisions in Texas -- and his brother, Charles, another Bush "Pioneer" contributor." [Salon.com, Conalson, 5/4/04]

Yeah yeah yeah. What about Kerry's medical records?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ess=104x2180868

WHO the swiftvets boat guys get their funding from is quite irrelevant to proving whether or not they are lying.

People should go to their website, read what they have to say, and make up their own minds. They have a message board so you can look up everything that has already been discussed on htis issue as well as ask them any questions.

http://www.swiftvets.com/index.html

http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php

Their message board:

http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/

[Yankeefan21]

Who they get their funding from is irrelevant? so you wouldn't mind frequenting some establishment that secretly gets their funding from the mafia?

By the way if you read the entire content within the link you'll see more than just who fund them is discussed

Alright so aside from the fact that they are funded by Republican shills AND the fact that all but ONE of these men (who btw was rumored to have been reprimanded by Kerry so it could be a revenge job for that, I will check on it later) were NOT on Kerry's boat

The men who WERE on Kerry's boat claim praise on him.

What about this does not give you some insight?

[Knightpass]

Originally posted by Yankeefan21, Who they get their funding from is irrelevant? so you wouldn't mind frequenting some establishment that secretly gets their funding from the mafia? Alright so aside from the fact that they are funded by Republican shills AND the fact that all but ONE of these men (who btw was rumored to have been reprimanded by Kerry so it could be a revenge job for that, I will check on it later) were NOT on Kerry's boat The men who WERE on Kerry's vote claim praise on him. What about this does not give you some insight?

But they didn't get funding from the Mafia. My point being is that the truth is the truth. Even if they did get their funding from the Mafia, it still doesnt disprove one damn thing they have said. THAT's why I said it's irrelevant. Who they're funded by is just an excuse for you to sidestep what the swiftvet boat guys have said.

Yes, those on his boat (it was a 6 man crew boat, is that correct? I'll have to double check that) praise him, and there are those in his unit who do and do not.

John Kerry has long insisted that using the three-injury loophole to leave combat early was his own idea, but Kerry's fellow Swift officer Thomas Wright, who served on occasion as the OIC (Officer in Charge) of Kerry's boat group, contradicts that claim. Wright reports that he "had a lot of trouble getting Kerry to follow orders," and that those who worked with Kerry found him "oriented towards his personal, rather than unit goals and objectives." He therefore requested that Kerry be removed from his boat group. After John Kerry qualified for his third Purple Heart, Thomas Wright and two fellow officers informed him of the obscure regulation, and told him to go home. Wright concluded, "We knew how the system worked and we didn’t want him in Coastal Division 11." http://coral.he.net/~swiftvet/index....KerryinVietnam

Call sign: Boston strangler May 13th, 2004 Thomas Wright was one of John F. Kerry's fellow Swift boat officers in Vietnam.  Since Wright outranked Kerry, he was Kerry's sometime boat group Officer-in-Charge, so Wright had occasion to observe Kerry’s behavior and attitudes, and the circumstances surrounding his early departure from the war zone. The intervening years have not dimmed his memories. When the Swift boats of Coastal Division 11 sailed into harm’s way from their Phu Quoc Island base of An Thoi, for missions along the rivers of Vietnam’s southwesternmost Kien Giang and An Xuyen provinces, they communicated by radio.  When they did, boat captains adopted distinctive, often humorous call signs for identification purposes. Eldon Thompson was “Mary Poppins,” William Schachte was “Baccardi Charlie,” James T. Grace was “Twiggy,”  and Tom Wright was “Dudley Do-Right.”  When John Kerry radioed another Swift boat, he used the call sign, “Boston Strangler.”   Lieutenant Thomas W. Wright heard that call sign frequently. As OIC  (Officer-in-Charge) of PCF-44, he operated with LT (j.g.) Kerry’s 94 Boat on a fairly regular basis. A 1966 graduate of the University of North Carolina’s NROTC program, Wright had served as communications officer aboard the destroyer USS Robert A. Owens before beginning Swift boat training in November 1967.  He had already served for eight months with Qui Nhon’s Coastal Division 15 when the monsoon season forced its boats to be shifted to the more protected, and more challenging waters off An Thoi.  He decided to extend his tour and follow his disciplined, veteran crew to the new base.  As the relatively senior lieutenant there, he was the OTC, or Officer-in-Tactical Command for the majority of the 3-to-6-boat missions.  On most of them he commanded 44 Boat.   The rivers and canals of Kien Giang and An Xuyen provinces were the targets of Commander, U.S. Naval Forces, Vietnam, Rear Adm. Elmo Zumwalt’s aggressive SEALORDS operations.  Looking back after all these years, Tom Wright, now a retired Commander, recalls: “We planned missions locally to try to dominate the area and disrupt the enemy’s movements.  We faced significant challenges every day, every night.  We would respond to intelligence reports as appropriate.  It took great imagination and determination to work effectively in the rivers, and we remained deployed until material damage and casualties reduced our effectiveness.  We would then rotate back to An Thoi for repair and re-arming.” For Tom Wright and most other Swift boat officers, there were two commandments:  1. Protect the crews.  2. Win.  As for Tom Wright’s 44 Boat; “we won every engagement, start to finish.  I got the crew home; a few nicks, but we made it.” Working with call sign “Boston Strangler” became problematical.  “I had a lot of trouble getting him to follow orders,” recalls Wright.  “He had a different view of leadership and operations.  Those of us with direct experience working with Kerry found him difficult and oriented towards his personal, rather than unit goals and objectives.  I believed that overall responsibility rested squarely on the shoulders of the OIC or OTC in a free-fire zone.  You had to be right (before opening fire). Kerry seemed to believe there were no rules in a free-fire zone and you were supposed to kill anyone.  I didn’t see it that way.” In Wright’s view, it was important that the enemy understood that Swift boats were a competent, effective force that could dominate his location.  To do that, you also had to control the people and their actions; to have them accept Swift boat crews and their authority.  You couldn’t achieve that by indiscriminate use of weapons in free fire zones.  It got to a point where Wright told his divisional commander he no longer wanted Kerry in his boat group, so he was re-assigned to another one.  “I had an idea of his actions but didn’t have to be responsible for him.”  Then Wright and like-minded boat officers took matters into their own hands.  “When he got his third Purple Heart, three of us told him to leave.  We knew how the system worked and we didn’t want him in Coastal Division 11.  Kerry didn’t manipulate the system, we did.” As for medals, Commander Wright holds strong views:  “No one was recognized for completely overwhelming the enemy with skill, courage and bravery.  No one wanted a Purple Heart because it meant we had made a mistake.  We made sure our crews were recognized, but no one took pride in a Purple Heart.  Everyone who served is equally important, regardless of rank or awards. http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...rticle_id=3539

[Yankeefan21]

So you got one officer who was NOT on kerry's boat (what did he cruise right next to Kerry's boat?) who makes these allegations who is part of a group that is being funded by Republican interests (and it DOES matter who funds them)

Yet NO ONE on Kerry's boat no one who actually served on Kerry's boat echos the claims of those who served on swiftboats why is that? Also the fact that these men were set up by the very same reptiles that attempted to knock McCain down. So they already have a shady history of getting people together to act as a smearing mob to discredit their opponents.

Also you saw this didn't you?



wift Vets Hire Private Investigator to Dig Into Kerry's Past

Dallas Morning News: "P.I. Digs Into Kerry's War Past Group Defends Investigation; Veterans Say Comments Distorted." "Opponents of John Kerry have hired a Dallas-area private investigator to gather information aimed at discrediting his military service, say several veterans who served with the Massachusetts Democrat in Vietnam. Several veterans who have been contacted in recent days accused the private investigator, Tom Rupprath of Rockwall, of twisting their words to produce misleading and inaccurate accounts that call into doubt the medals Mr. Kerry received for his service. 'They're just distorting things,' said Jim Wasser, who served with Mr. Kerry. 'They have nothing to go after John Kerry for, so now they're trying to discredit him'." [DMN, Slater, 7/13/04]

Salon.com: "How Low Will the Swift Boat Veterans Sink?" A private detective retained by 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth'-- the Texas-based group seeking to discredit John Kerry's military record -- is contacting veterans who may have information about the incidents that led to Kerry's Vietnam decorations. According to a former Kerry crew member, several of the Massachusetts senator's old Navy comrades have refused to talk with the detective, a former FBI agent named Thomas Rupprath -- and some have complained that the detective tried to put damaging words in their mouths. Rupprath's efforts are clearly intended to discredit Kerry's military record, which should surprise nobody familiar with the 'Swift Boat' group. Its leaders are conservative Republicans embittered over Kerry's later antiwar activism." [Salon.com, 7/13/04]

http://www.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/080...html#background

If they have the facts on their side and they knew this FIRSTHAND from kerry's performance why would PI's need to be hired to dig up dirt?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Yankeefan, I DID scroll down, oen purple heart citation, and the Bronze star...

Where are the sitations for the others? Where are the reports that accompanied, where are the medical records and fitreps the SBVFT are disputing?

THEY ARE NOT THERE.

Drink of the Kerry Koolaide, and you miss these little details.

[Knightpass]

So you got one officer who was NOT on kerry's boat (what did he cruise right next to Kerry's boat?) who makes these allegations who is part of a group that is being funded by Republican interests (and it DOES matter who funds them)

It may matter to you in the sense that it tells you "ok, this might be their motive". However, it still doesnt disprove one darn thing.

Yet NO ONE on Kerry's boat no one who actually served on Kerry's boat echos the claims of those who served on swiftboats why is that?

Regarding that, the swiftboatguys have already discussed that in great detail. Names, dates, etc:

http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic....ved+kerrys+boat

http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic....ved+kerrys+boat

Also you saw this didn't you? wift Vets Hire Private Investigator to Dig Into Kerry's Past Dallas Morning News: "P.I. Digs Into Kerry's War Past Group Defends Investigation; Veterans Say Comments Distorted." "Opponents of John Kerry have hired a Dallas-area private investigator to gather information aimed at discrediting his military service, say several veterans who served with the Massachusetts Democrat in Vietnam. Several veterans who have been contacted in recent days accused the private investigator, Tom Rupprath of Rockwall, of twisting their words to produce misleading and inaccurate accounts that call into doubt the medals Mr. Kerry received for his service. 'They're just distorting things,' said Jim Wasser, who served with Mr. Kerry. 'They have nothing to go after John Kerry for, so now they're trying to discredit him'." [DMN, Slater, 7/13/04] Salon.com: "How Low Will the Swift Boat Veterans Sink?" A private detective retained by 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth'-- the Texas-based group seeking to discredit John Kerry's military record -- is contacting veterans who may have information about the incidents that led to Kerry's Vietnam decorations. According to a former Kerry crew member, several of the Massachusetts senator's old Navy comrades have refused to talk with the detective, a former FBI agent named Thomas Rupprath -- and some have complained that the detective tried to put damaging words in their mouths. Rupprath's efforts are clearly intended to discredit Kerry's military record, which should surprise nobody familiar with the 'Swift Boat' group. Its leaders are conservative Republicans embittered over Kerry's later antiwar activism." [Salon.com, 7/13/04] http://www.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/080...html#background If they have the facts on their side and they knew this FIRSTHAND from kerry's performance why would PI's need to be hired to dig up dirt?

[/quote]

To dig up more facts. To help them provide them with more concrete evidence. Eyewitness accounts, find long lost documents, other swift boat vets, etc. We're talking about incidents that date back about 35 years ago. To find people and/or documents out of your past over 35 years is not so simple for the average guy. These guys just saying "oh, Kerry is lying". Just isnt enough, now is it?

Here, the swiftboat guys also talk about their hiring of Rupprath:

http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic....=rupprath#13599

[Yankeefan21]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, Yankeefan, I DID scroll down, oen purple heart citation, and the Bronze star... Where are the sitations for the others?  Where are the reports that accompanied, where are the medical records and fitreps the SBVFT are disputing? THEY ARE NOT THERE. Drink of the Kerry Koolaide, and you miss these little details.

All purple hearts are listed there as is the Silver Star award.

Oh so now it's not service records you want it's medical records which typically are kept private.

What are those going to prove? that those purple heart wounds weren't huge bulletholes? that he didn't save Jim Rassaman's life?

By the way the smearboat liar who made those allegations that he treated Kerry



I know John Kerry is lying about his first purple heart, because I treated him for that injury."

 
Louis Letson, Now Part of the Republican Veterans Efforts to Smear Kerry, WAS NOT the Doctor That Signed Kerry's Sick Call Sheet and Was NOT a Kerry Crewmate



 
Letson Offers NO PROOF He Treated Kerry.
Despite Letson's claims to have treated Kerry, he is not listed on any document as having treated Kerry after the 12/2/68 firefight. Offering only an account of dates and places-which is readily available in Kerry's biography and media accounts-Lester has produced nothing to verify his treatment of Kerry.

Another Doctor Signed Kerry's Sick Call Sheet.
Regarding Dr. Letson's recollection of Mr. Kerry's wound, Michael Meehan, a campaign spokesman, noted that a different person, J. C. Carreon, had signed the "sick call sheet" summarizing treatment of the injury, and asked, "Who is this guy? How do we know that he was the doctor who treated him?" The aides produced several veterans to attest to Mr. Kerry's bona fides. [New York Times, 5/4/04]

Letson Didn't Record His Memories of Vietnam Until Kerry's Emergence in 2003.
"Letson says that last year, as the Democratic campaign began to heat up, he told friends that he remembered treating one of the candidates many years ago. In response to their questions, Letson says, he wrote down his recollections of the time." [National Review Online, 5/4/04]


So since this isn't going to go anywhere and since the only thing bushbots like yourself and Knightpass (year I read your post too and I still think it's bullshit that on one hand they want to come off like they are credible in their statements against Kerry yet need to dig up "eyewitness accounts") have against Kerry are statements from men with less than honorable qualities who are being funded by the Bush crime family and their associates tell me why such attacks on Kerry but yet not on Awol Bush who has yet to provide proof that he was not AWOL and is a man who loathes and spits on the military and better yet why haven't these smearboat liars gone after him yet?

If these men were truly going after Kerry not for political purposes wouldn't they also be going after Bush for what he's done to the vets lately? wouldn't their message be that they both are unworthy of office? but nope they take GOP money and continue the same assault they've had going against Kerry with the backing of the GOP they had since the Nixon years.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, Yankeefan, I DID scroll down, oen purple heart citation, and the Bronze star... Where are the sitations for the others? Where are the reports that accompanied, where are the medical records and fitreps the SBVFT are disputing? THEY ARE NOT THERE. Drink of the Kerry Koolaide, and you miss these little details.

I can assume you supported the people who questioned Bush's "missing" National Guard records too, right? But you support a group of people who hate Kerry without blinking, and it is getting tired, my friend. How about this, especially since Kerry had no problem getting the people who were actually ON THE BOAT with him to back up what he claims, why don't you ask where is the PROOF of what the swift boat people are saying? They made the accusations but I haven't seen them back them up.

Weak evidence or none at all seems okay with you as long as it isn't against Bush, it would seem.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Yes I did scribbler.

He has released, every last file he can get his hands on.

Show me files Bush has REFUSED to release from his Guard days?

Hmmm?

Right then.

[Knightpass]

So since this isn't going to go anywhere and since the only thing bushbots like yourself and Knightpass (year I read your post too and I still think it's bullshit that on one hand they want to come off like they are credible in their statements against Kerry yet need to dig up "eyewitness accounts")

I dont understand that sentence at all: "on one hand they want to come off like they are credible in their statements against Kerry yet need to dig up "eyewitness accounts"

So them trying to dig up other eyewitnesss accounts goes against their credibility? How in the heck do you come up with that logic?

To dig up more eyewitness accounts would tell you that they want to be more credible. People who are not seeking to be credible wouldnt be looking for eyewitnesses at all. You once mentioned the word "Mafia". Does the Mafia like eyewitnesses?

have against Kerry are statements from men with less than honorable qualities

Less than honorable qualities? Right, sure. For trying to set the record straight. For contradicting Kerry.

who are being funded by the Bush crime family and their associates tell me why such attacks on Kerry but yet not on Awol Bush

Because they were Navy, in Vietnam. They're not eyewitnesses to what Bush did or didnt do.

who has yet to provide proof that he was not AWOL

He has provided a heck of alot more documentation than he used to, and it isnt up to him to prove he was NOT awol. That's called proving a negative and no one can do that. The burden of proof is upon his accusers, not him.

and is a man who loathes and spits on the military

Lie. He does not loathe and spit on the military.

and better yet why haven't these smearboat liars gone after him yet?

1) Because they were Navy, in Vietnam. They're not eyewitnesses to what Bush did or didnt do.

2) They are either Bush supporters or Independents who just don't like Kerry.

2a) Why haven't Bush's AWOL accusers gone after Kerry yet?

If these men were truly going after Kerry not for political purposes wouldn't they also be going after Bush for what he's done to the vets lately? wouldn't their message be that they both are unworthy of office? but nope they take GOP money and continue the same assault they've had going against Kerry with the backing of the GOP they had since the Nixon years.

Maybe they just dont share your view that Bush isnt unworthy of office. Maybe they feel that Bush is worthy, or the lesser of two evils at the very least.

[Knightpass]

why don't you ask where is the PROOF of what the swift boat people are saying? They made the accusations but I haven't seen them back them up.

Go straight to their message board on their website and ask them yourself:

http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/

[Yankeefan21]

I dont understand that sentence at all: "on one hand they want to come off like they are credible in their statements against Kerry yet need to dig up "eyewitness accounts"

So them trying to dig up other eyewitnesss accounts goes against their credibility? How in the heck do you come up with that logic?



In other words they have no problem with going public with their statements against John Kerry in such fashion that displays a sort of "I was there I saw him to this and that ect" but yet they have to dig up eyewitnesses

By the way have they found some eyewitnesses outside of the smearboat group to corroborate their statements?


To dig up more eyewitness accounts would tell you that they want to be more credible. People who are not seeking to be credible wouldnt be looking for eyewitnesses at all. You once mentioned the word "Mafia". Does the Mafia like eyewitnesses?


Yea the mafia loves eyewitnesses. PAID eyewitnesses and witnesses that buckle under the pressure of the threat of having a bomb strapped to your car. Not to mention it's easy to be selective with your eyewitnesses.




Less than honorable qualities? Right, sure. For trying to set the record straight. For contradicting Kerry.

No for trying to spin the record for LYING for acting in a dispicable manner towards someone like Kerry and giving someone like Bush a free pass.

although this is only one member, not going to characterize all of the smearboat liars for Bush as being like this guy, but here's a little on Dr Corsi the co-author of "Unfit to Command"

While much has been written about the identity and history of John E. O'Neill -- one of the authors of the forthcoming Regnery book Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry (whose links in the GOP go back to his days as "protégé of Nixon-era dirty trickster Charles Colson") -- little has been said about his co-author, Jerome R. Corsi, PhD.


• Corsi on Islam: "a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion"

• Corsi on Catholicism: "Boy buggering in both Islam and Catholicism is okay with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press"

• Corsi on Muslims: "RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together"

• Corsi on "John F*ing Commie Kerry": "After he married TerRAHsa, didn't John Kerry begin practicing Judiasm? He also has paternal grandparents that were Jewish. What religion is John Kerry?"

• Corsi on Senator "FAT HOG" Clinton: "Anybody ask why HELLary couldn't keep BJ Bill satisfied? Not lesbo or anything, is she?"


http://mediamatters.org/items/200408060010


Because they were Navy, in Vietnam. They're not eyewitnesses to what Bush did or didnt do.


Well they weren't in the same boat as Kerry, yet somehow they're fully qualified and trustworthy in their accusations on Kerry's record?


He has provided a heck of alot more documentation than he used to, and it isnt up to him to prove he was NOT awol. That's called proving a negative and no one can do that. The burden of proof is upon his accusers, not him.


Well by this logic I'd say the burden of proof is on the smearboat liars for Bush and proof is something they have yet to come up with concerning their attacks on Kerry yet you're quick to buy into their words and statements.

What else has Bush released besides his xeroxed dental records what do you mean by he's provided a heck of alot more documentation than he used to?



Lie. He does not loathe and spit on the military.


Oh no? what do you call sending 1000 soldiers off to war to die and have thousands of others be wounded for lies and profits?

Then to boot refusing to put the soldier's safety and needs ahead of his rich buddies?


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Bush administration threatened for the first time Tuesday to veto an $87 billion package for Iraq and Afghanistan if Congress converts any Iraqi rebuilding money into loans.


White House officials issued the warning even though many lawmakers agree that the bill's final version is likely to bow to President Bush and omit any loans. By underscoring Bush's opposition to loans, the administration threat could make it easier for congressional Republican leaders to nail down enough votes to help the president prevail.


http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/21/...ngress.iraq.ap/




2a) Why haven't Bush's AWOL accusers gone after Kerry yet?


Why should they go after Kerry? Kerry wasn't AWOL.


Maybe they just dont share your view that Bush isnt unworthy of office. Maybe they feel that Bush is worthy, or the lesser of two evils at the very least.

Or maybe they're doing their job as good little GOP shills like they are after Kerry's speech before the Senate. With all the funding they're getting from GOP interests I doubt they secretly think kerry is the greater of two evils


Go straight to their message board on their website and ask them yourself


Thanks for the link I plan to.

[Technosoul]

Perhaps he will? the election is still a ways off and right now he is out stomping for votes and might not be in a location where he could meet your demands.

But one point remains clear, he did not reward his self and so someone who looks into such matters did it and no doubt did it following the standard procedures they use for handing out badges. He was not faking a reward way back then so he could use it to run for president today. Some higher ranking person have him some rewards and he got them and so that is that.

At least his military records did not mysteriously vanish like those of GWB did, at least he does not have a police record like GWB that was somehow mysteriously sealed from public review. At least he did not go into rehab at some born again church to get off crack and then refuse to answer questions from reporters about that. So if anyone should be defending someone it should be the Bush people trying to defend the past records (wherever they were shredded) and not the Kerry people.

Lets face it both canidates had an "interesting" life during their early years when they were in their 20s, big deal. That past is the past, the important thing is what they can do for the country in the future.

Technosoul.

[Knightpass]

In other words they have no problem with going public with their statements against John Kerry in such fashion that displays a sort of "I was there I saw him to this and that ect" but yet they have to dig up eyewitnesses

What do you mean "yet"? They ARE eyewitnesses, but the MORE eyewitnesses, the better.

By the way have they found some eyewitnesses outside of the smearboat group to corroborate their statements?

Er, when you've got one eyewitness, that's hearsay. When you've got several eyewitnesses, that's corroboration. They've had corroboration since the founding of their group. They dont exactly need new witnesses to "corroborate", since they already have corroboration. And obviously they're not shying away from seeking out new eyewitnesses. If they were liars, obviously, they wouldnt be doing that.

Yea the mafia loves eyewitnesses. PAID eyewitnesses and witnesses that buckle under the pressure of the threat of having a bomb strapped to your car. Not to mention it's easy to be selective with your eyewitnesses.

As if Kerry isn't being selective.

And no, the Mafia prefers NO eyewitnesses to anything. A THREATENED witness is still not trustworthy.