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Thread: Oratorical Prowess

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    Liquid Hot Mag-ma tPA's Avatar
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    Oratorical Prowess

    Much has been made about Obama's skill as a speaker, and I've often heard that his speaking abilities, the ability to "fire people up" is perhaps the greatest reason to vote for him--that he can inspire people to do great things.

    Well, I came across this quote and I just want to put it out there to debate the veracity of the claim that being a great speaker is indicative of being a great leader.

    The speaker from the heart is different. He may have the skills of the master of reasoning. They are however only tools he uses as a true rhetorical virtuoso. He has abilities not found in the reasoning speaker. He combines clear diction with simple argumentation, and instinct tells him what to say and how to say it. Language is united with ideas. He knows the secret corners and aspects of the mass soul and knows how to reach and touch them. His speeches are masterpieces of declamation. He outlines people and conditions; he inscribes his theses on the tablet of the age; with deep and noble passion he explains the pillars of his world view. His voice reaches out from the depths of his blood into the depths of the souls of his listeners. He brings to expression the secrets of the human soul. He rouses the tired and lazy, fires up the indifferent and the doubting, turns cowards into men and weaklings into heroes.
    ...
    His ability to reach the masses is unique and remarkable, fitting no organizational scheme or dogma. It would be ridiculous to think he attended some sort of speaker school; he is a rhetorical genius who developed his own abilities with no help from anyone else. One cannot imagine that {he} ever spoke differently than he does today, or that he will ever speak differently. He speaks his heart, and therefore reaches the hearts of those who hear him. He has the amazing gift of sensing what is in the air. He has the ability to express things so clearly, logically and directly that listeners are convinced that that is what they have always thought themselves. That is the true secret of the effectiveness of {his} speeches. {He} is neither a speaker from reason nor from the heart. He uses both, depending on the needs of the moment. The essential characteristics of his speeches to the people are: clear organization, irrefutable logical reasoning, simplicity and clarity of expression, razor-sharp dialectic, a developed and sure instinct for the masses and their feelings, an electrifying emotional appeal that is used sparingly, and the ability to reach out to the souls of the people in a way that never goes unanswered.

  2. #2
    Resigned Matt W's Avatar
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    Source? All quotes must be sourced, unless you want to get the site in legal trouble.

    [do not respond]
    I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.

    -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

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    It's only logical Sonart's Avatar
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    .

    His source is this, Matt...

    The Fuhrer as a Speaker, by Dr. Joseph Goebbels

    Seems young master tPA doesn't need hardly any reason at all to jump straight to Godwin's Law. Obama has a reputation as a good speaker... by golly, just like Hitler!

    You're a real slimeball piece of work, you are, tP.

    John McCain likes to drink beer.... JUST LIKE ADOLPH HITLER AND HIS NAZI SS! Weeee, isn't this fun!!

    Here's a better one, tP... how to go to war in Iraq.

    "People don't want war, but, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -- Herman Goering

    .
    I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

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    Volcanic Erupter RickSp's Avatar
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    Interesting. tPA quotes Goebbels without attribution just like Sarah Palin quoted Westbrook Pegler, again without attribution, in her speech before the Republican Nation Convention. Pegler was a rabid anti-Semite who advocated the assassination of both FDR and Robert Kennedy.

    Appears to be a trend developing here.

    Robert Kennedy Jr. On Sarah Palin
    Fascist writer Westbrook Pegler, an avowed racist who Sarah Palin approvingly quoted in her acceptance speech for the moral superiority of small town values, expressed his fervent hope about my father, Robert F. Kennedy, as he contemplated his own run for the presidency in 1965, that "some white patriot of the Southern tier will spatter his spoonful of brains in public premises before the snow flies."

    It might be worth asking Governor Palin for a tally of the other favorites from her reading list.
    Some folks thought Palin was a pretty good orator in her little speech too.
    Rick

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

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    Liquid Hot Mag-ma tPA's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Sonart View Post
    .

    His source is this, Matt...

    The Fuhrer as a Speaker, by Dr. Joseph Goebbels

    Seems young master tPA doesn't need hardly any reason at all to jump straight to Godwin's Law. Obama has a reputation as a good speaker... by golly, just like Hitler!

    You're a real slimeball piece of work, you are, tP.

    John McCain likes to drink beer.... JUST LIKE ADOLPH HITLER AND HIS NAZI SS! Weeee, isn't this fun!!

    Here's a better one, tP... how to go to war in Iraq.

    "People don't want war, but, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -- Herman Goering

    .
    Godwin's has nothing to do with it---the Left has been slandering GWBush for 7 years based on what?

    I don't think it's unreasonable to expect our leaders to have more to offer than good oratorical skills. The biggest selling point of Obama is that he's A) a fresh face that B) is a good speaker who inspires people. My point in posting it was to point out that there are lots of people who inspire cults of personality. Doesn't mean they have positive things to offer society. Making people "feel good" is hardly resume-worthy material.

    Obama is frightening for the simple fact that few people of import question him.

    George Bush was questioned because his grandfather was a banker that happened to do business with Germany. Barack Obama has knowingly associated with anti-American extremists and known and avowed terrorists, and pointing it out is a "smear tactic." He launched his political career in the living room of one of the founders of a domestic terrorist group; he attended a church for twenty years that was lead by an extremist, anti-American "Black Liberation theology" preacher; he dedicated his first autobiography (which is laughable in and of itself---what has he accomplished that is worth an autobiography, let alone two?!) to a known Communist. But when people bring these up it's called a smear or baseless and empty.

    And actually, Hitler was an anti-smoking zealot who was a vegetarian. Does that mean Seattle tree-hugger types are Nazis?

    Firing people up is hardly a qualification to be a leader. The man was hardly able to run the Annnenberg Project---he's supposed to be the leader of the Free World?!
    Last edited by tPA; 6th October 2008 at 02:03 AM.

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    Liquid Hot Mag-ma tPA's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: RickSp View Post
    Interesting. tPA quotes Goebbels without attribution just like Sarah Palin quoted Westbrook Pegler, again without attribution, in her speech before the Republican Nation Convention. Pegler was a rabid anti-Semite who advocated the assassination of both FDR and Robert Kennedy.

    Appears to be a trend developing here.

    Robert Kennedy Jr. On Sarah Palin

    Some folks thought Palin was a pretty good orator in her little speech too.
    First of all, the only description of Palin as a speaker, with which I am familiar, is "folksy."

    Secondly, Barack Obama has talked about "just words" making all sorts of changes. He ripped it off from Deval Patrick, who later said that he told Obama it was OK to use it. Hooray for rhetorical skills! How much talent does it take to use someone else's words?

    That Palin used a line from an anti-semite is hardly indicative of her support for Pegler's views. Perhaps you should look into Obama's relationship with Louis Farrakhan... We can parse individual, "anonymously" attributed lines all you want. Obama's ONLY record is of anti-American fatalistic naivete and defeatism. Palin read a speech prepared by someone else. Groundbreaking....

    Let's start a discussion about the fight for civil rights, shall we (since you brought up Pegler). Which party was it that seceded in the mid 1800s (and which party was started by abolitionists)? Which party opposed the amendments that gave freed slaves the rights they were previously denied? Which party came up with Jim Crow? Which party supported segregation? Which party opposed the Civil Rights acts? And which party, today, is working for total government dependence (and thus restriction of individual rights)?

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    Liquid Hot Mag-ma tPA's Avatar
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    Hmmmm, I thought Obama's speech sounded familiar!


    from 9/5/08 (Obama gave his anti-Lipstick speech on 9/9/08)

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    Volcanic Erupter RickSp's Avatar
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    Amusing tPa. You get caught trying to play "gotcha". You play a childish game trying to link Obama with Goebbels and you don't get away with it, yet you still have the unmitigated gall to try to blame the Democrats for civil rights failures in the 1800s! Give me a break.

    I do note your typical insults, calling Obama anti-American and naive while you excuse Simple Sarah for quoting a fascist who called for the assassination of a president! This is Sarah who has been courting America hating secessionists and whose husband was a member of the secessionist party for seven years.

    So cut the crap. It is not worth my time.
    Rick

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

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    Volcanic Erupter RickSp's Avatar
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    LOL, getting cartoonish are we tPa? Nice of you to point out that McSame and Simple Sarah are just Bush/Rove clones. So true.
    Rick

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

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    Liquid Hot Mag-ma tPA's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Sonart View Post
    .Seems young master tPA doesn't need hardly any reason at all to jump straight to Godwin's Law. Obama has a reputation as a good speaker... by golly, just like Hitler.
    This is so ridiculous. Noticing, and pointing out, a similarity cannot be dismissed simply because it's been defined as a loss by a Usenet poster nearly 20 years ago. That it can be called Godwin's Law does not refute its validity. You are merely dodging the issue: so what if he's a good speaker. Good speakers have nothing to offer but nice words. What about Obama's history or record should lead us to believe that he will bring positive changes? He said himself (well, after lifting it from someone else) that "just words" have made lots of changes in the world. What changes does he offer?

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    Liquid Hot Mag-ma tPA's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: RickSp View Post
    LOL, getting cartoonish are we tPa? Nice of you to point out that McSame and Simple Sarah are just Bush/Rove clones. So true.
    How did I? McCain has differed with Bush on several substantial issues. Republicans could hardly stomach the thought of him as their nominee due to the differences he's had with the party.

    Please explain how he offers four more years of "failed Bush policies" (and please go beyond the naive "he won't talk to our enemies" tripe).

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    Liquid Hot Mag-ma tPA's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: RickSp View Post
    Amusing tPa. You get caught trying to play "gotcha". You play a childish game trying to link Obama with Goebbels and you don't get away with it, yet you still have the unmitigated gall to try to blame the Democrats for civil rights failures in the 1800s! Give me a break.

    I do note your typical insults, calling Obama anti-American and naive while you excuse Simple Sarah for quoting a fascist who called for the assassination of a president! This is Sarah who has been courting America hating secessionists and whose husband was a member of the secessionist party for seven years.

    So cut the crap. It is not worth my time.
    Is the quote not applicable to Obama?

    And answer the questions: who has historically opposed civil rights, up to the last 45 years or so? You obviously know the answer...

    I didn't say Obama is anti-American, I said he's associated with people who are virulently (and violently, sometimes) anti-America. That I said it, and that it's been said before, doesn't make it a "tired old talking point." Perhaps there is some truth to it, when all the influential people in his past have been enemies of the country in which they live, on some level. I didn't excuse her--I said that she read a speech someone else prepared, and using one line from a speech is hardly enough evidence to convict her of racist or separatist leanings. Obama has a lifetime of anti-American associates.

    And please do a little more research. Vermont has groups moving to secede--should we question any politician out of Vermont?

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