Iraq solution.

[Technosoul]

I seems predictable that when elections are held in Iraq the people will vote for someone who is a Bush basher and Bush hater. It seems predictable they would not vote for anyone they think is under the thumb of Bush's occupation of Iraq and their oil industry.

Now the Bush people could try to organized the elections so that people who are wearing buttons that do not support his agenda are pulled out by the security forces so they cannot run of office, leaving only Bush supporters on the ticket.

However if they cannot control who and what party can run of office then the people of Iraq will vote in someone or some party that can "take back the country" from their invaders.

So the only option we have in America is to vote for Kerry and to vote Bush out of office before elections are held in Iraq. If they see a new and kinder face representing America and they see him doing the right things (for a change) concerning our involvment there, then a pro-American canadate in Iraq might have a chance of winning their election.

Whatcha think?
Technosoul.

[Mr.Vicchio]

What a wacky assessment of the situation.

You should go down to you local VA hospital, ask some of the veterans what they saw of Iraq, the people opinions, and what Kerry would do for Iraq.

I dare ya.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by Technosoul,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Technosoul,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I seems predictable that when elections are held in Iraq the people will vote for someone who is a Bush basher and Bush hater. It seems predictable they would not vote for anyone they think is under the thumb of Bush's occupation of Iraq and their oil industry. [/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Vicchio,
What a wacky assessment of the situation.[/quote]
I agree Mr.V....I agree.

[Technosoul]

To suggest that I am anit troops who fell victim to the war in Iraq is missdirecting the topic. Do not hide behind the solan "support our troops" to justify your opinions, I am aware of that trick and the deceptions it seeks to impress people with. (just my suggestion and not an attack on your as a person).

On deeper thoght perhaps you are saying that some of the troops who were in Iraq (especially in the early months) believe that the people are glad that Saddam is gone and happy about us being there to help them with our reconstruction projects. But I think those people might not be in the majority nowadays, but in any case those votes would not be lost in such an election for a pro-American canidate if Kerry became President. Meanwhile the anti-Bush people in Iraq would loose some of their platform because they could no longer use Bush as a reason to vote out a good canidate who agrees with the Democratic systems of America. Removing Bush during our election would calm down some of that resentment towards us if Kerry can show we have a new and better agenda that is not dependant upon a police state in that country.

Just saying my idea is wacky is not much of a debate because you gave no reasons why it is faulty. Anyway most of the recovering troops are in Germany hospitals and I cannot afford the trip over to ask them their opinions, if they want to post something here tell them to do so, and I will listen to what they have to in-put.

Technosoul.

[Mr.Vicchio]

No, What I am saying is that your belief that the Iraqis would rather see anyone but Bush, and are against America is a bit errant to say the least.

Its okay though, your just another person caugh up in the "hate bush" movement, it happens. You mean well, but your conclusions are wacked by the hate your are surrounded by.

I cannot wait for Nov 3rd. And Kerry is sent back to Mass.

[Young]

The word Hate originates most from V, so We should all listen, apparently he knows something about it. Our only reason for remaining in Iraq is to secure the Oil, and thats what Our Soldiers are dying for, under the Mission accomplished banner, without Hazard pay. V can't get past Kerry, and I don't Blame him for that, but V also can't see through Bush, and thats also Sad. The Dems had a Slogan during the primaries "Anybody but Bush", and Now I wish they'd of been smart enough to make the slogan "Anybody but Bush or Kerry" Many Republicans are smart enough to realize that Bush is a Criminal and Anti - American....but All of them have a very hard time with finding Reason to hand Our Country over to Kerry. The Reason is....Neither are Good choices.

[giuliano]

i think the iraqis will probably vote for a candidate with a good fiscal record. one who can demonstrate sound competence in monetary policy, while juggling middle eastern and global relations will also stand up well to the scrutiny that is likely to be placed on them.

or they might just vote for a shi'ite leader, seeing that it is they who are in the majority.

[Jeff]

I think that Bush needs to be in office during the Iraq election for the good of the Iraqi people. Whoever is elected in Iraq will need to be very strong and have wide support. In order to have a chance at that he will need to be able to take charge and stand up to the US. Any change in our leadership would make that less effective. Standing up to a new leader would not show the same strength as standing up to one with a track record in the region.

I do expect a government that is not pro-American. That will not be a bad situation. Any government elected in Iraq that seems to be pro-American would be deemed by most of the middle east and many other nations as being just a puppet. It is for that reason that I hope that Iraq elects a strong government.

[Gorgo]

Expect the puppet regime to continue in Iraq, brutally if necessary, under Kerry or any other President.

[Technosoul]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, No, What I am saying is that your belief that the Iraqis would rather see anyone but Bush, and are against America is a bit errant to say the least. Its okay though, your just another person caugh up in the "hate bush" movement, it happens. You mean well, but your conclusions are wacked by the hate your are surrounded by. I cannot wait for Nov 3rd. And Kerry is sent back to Mass.

It so foolish in my opinion to try to defend your self by saything that Democrats are "caugt up in hatred and cannot see stright". Just because someone is not in agreement with how Bush is behaving or his polices, that does not mean we have turned int raving mad dogs foaming at the teeth. How do you come up with such deceptive and missleading classifcations for people?

Do you think voting for Bush is a vote for "love your enemy and evryone else" vote? It was Bush's hatred of Saddam that got us in this mess in the first place, and Bush people hate just about everyone ecept for other Rich Republicans who pertend to be bibile folks. It was not the liberals who went on TV calling a bunch of other people the Axes of Evil.

You got it back to front, it is because President advocates HATE that we want to vote for Kerry and get the hater out of office.

Technosoul.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Technosoul, the only option we have in America is to vote for Kerry and to vote Bush out of office before elections are held in Iraq.  If they see a new and kinder face representing America and they see him doing the right things (for a change) concerning our involvment there, then a pro-American canadate in Iraq might have a chance of winning their election.

Regardless of your initial "predictions", but this part of your post seems to comply with a "common average sense".
Since we - people have tendency to see "the new" as "something better", your assumptions make sense.
I agree.

However, we need to make adjustments on a "common average sense", especially in countries ruled by religious representatives who have been influencing their nations for almost millenniums, and ask ourselves whether Iraqi people will vote on :
- what a "common average sense" says
- what a cleric says
???

[Gorgo]

Sounds like things aren't going so well:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...=15&ItemID=5981

[Comrade]

http://www.palaceofreason.com/Curmud..._bad_news.html

Yeah, thing are going really bad. :rolleyes:

# Iraq has been largely reconstituted, with political authority -- "sovereignty" -- handed over to the Iraqis themselves. It has a secular constitutional framework and a functioning interim government that's already planning a full set of elections. That government has custody of Saddam Hussein and is fully responsible for dealing with him. France, the principal supporter of Hussein's Baathist regime, has a lot of egg on its face. # Several knowldegeable and credible authorities have testified that yes, Saddam Hussein was still operating a development program for nuclear weapons and other banned weapons, right up to the eve of war. Collateral discoveries of partially enriched uranium and mechanisms for dealing with it provide additional confirmation. President Bush's famous "16 words" have been vindicated by multiple sources. # U.S. troop presence in Iraq is being slowly drawn down. Insurgents' violent attacks are reaping almost no American lives. # Afghanistan, despite some residual troubles, appears to be settling into stability. The remnants of the Taliban have bid to be restored to power, but the Afghani people appear to have had enough of executions of young women for learning to read and write. # Several promised realignments of our overseas forces, involving Germany, Poland, and South Korea, are under way, with no negative repercussions whatsoever. # After its spate of saber rattling earlier this year over Taiwan's elections, Red China has settled into a sullen silence. North Korea is now ringed by American warships that will interdict any shipment of nuclear weapons technology from that unhappy land. # Israel's security fence is having the desired effect; even Palestinian terrorists are admitting it. The Israeli / Palestinian impasse appears headed for resolution, for this reason alone. Palestinian-aligned Europe is impotently furious. # The American economic picture grows ever rosier: unemployment continues to fall, real after-tax wages per hour worked continue to increase, and productivity per worker has reached an incredible height. # Various components of national political opinion, including the bellwether subjects of affirmative action, partial-birth abortion and homosexual marriage, have turned unmistakably in the conservative direction. President Bush's unprecedented rebuff of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, whose key figures have done their best to slander him at every opportunity, has been met with overwhelming popular approval. # Joseph Wilson has been revealed as an incompetent fraud, Richard Clarke and Richard Ben-Veniste have been shown to be pompous poseurs, and Jamie Gorelick has turned out to be the very person responsible for the wall between the intelligence agencies that made the Black Tuesday atrocities possible. Leftists who've tried to defame the president, his administration, and conservatives generally have been revealed as liars, frauds, and in a couple of cases as outright criminals, albeit unindicted. Their hysterical "fascism" rhetoric receives no respect from any decent person; they're incapable of producing even one substantive example in support of their accusations.

[Gorgo]

Wow. You forgot the part about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

War is peace, love is hate. I'm likin' it!

[Comrade]

Yes, that is a perfectly reasonable refutation of the facts, or not.

[Gorgo]

Oh. You meant some of that to be fact that was backed up by something somewhere. Okay. The part that backed it up was missing on my screen.

What part of it is relevant to anything? Bush is a criminal and you're still supporting him. Iraq is completely out of control, and the puppet regime will remain a puppet regime regardless of "elections."

And the Israelis, well, that's another thread.

[Comrade]

Who is the one spouting unsupported assertions? The part where you people have given any evidence that Bush is a "criminal" and that the Iraqi government is a "puppet regime," for instance. I've seen you say it a lot, and you support it by taking a set of facts and creating a non sequitur.

The burden of proof is on whom, again? I need to prove that Bush isn't a criminal? Just how do you go about proving that ghosts don't exist?

[Gorgo]

None of your statements are supported by anything and you expect my statements to be footnoted? Most of your statements are irrelevant anyway. What do elections mean in Iraq? About the same as they mean in Cuba.

I've shown clearly in many threads that Bush is a criminal and you've shown me nothing to refute it, so to bother again for people who don't care about facts is just futile.

[Comrade]

See, you say elections in Iraq are as legitimate as those in Cuba, yet you haven't provided anything that would lead me to believe that.

No, you haven't shown that Bush is a criminal, unless you subscribe to Goebbel's "repeat it enough" strategy.

I have to refute that Bush is a criminal? Do you really not understand what burden of proof means?
I'm certainly glad you weren't around when the court system was devised.

[Gorgo]

You haven't shown me anything to suspect that the puppet government is anything but a puppet government. You've said that they're going to have elections, but they have elections in Cuba. What do you have to support your statements?

I have shown lots of support for saying that Bush is a criminal. All you can do is tell me lies about what a paradise Iraq is.

It is illegal to attack other countries. Sorry, but it just is.