Lefty Liberals fear the police state.. but...

[Mr.Vicchio]

I think anyone would be hard pressed these days to find a leftleaning thinker all for Police State America!

They are after all, the most anti-Patriot Act group out there for example. They often refer to Bush as Hitler, his views and those that share them facist.. I could go on, you all know the littany of charges in that reguard.

Those are not the point of the thread.

What I would like to point out, is the.. silliness? Ignorance? Or is it just blind hate? I dunno, of a good portion of these same people.

I say this because this same group also comprises the largest gun control group. The ban the guns crowd breeds on the left. Its just how it is. If they had their way, the 2nd Amendment would cease to exsist.

I hope someone reading this all ready sees where I am going here. What is the purpose of the 2nd amendment? To arm the populace as a counter against governmental tyrrany. An armed populace they believed, would be far less likely to fall into a police state. And they are quite correct.

In the 20th Century, it was made quite clear that before a police state or tyrant came to power, they first removed the peoples guns.

Does the anti-Police State left realize the almost, if it wasn't so scary, Irony that one of thier greatest fears has the most chance of occuring if they managed to negate the 2nd amendment?

[Technosoul]

If that was still logical I would agree with you. But the fact is it is the right wing gun people who most fear that police state otherwise they would not claim they need guns to safeguard their freedoms from police control.

Those people in Wacco thought like you do and they are all dead because the police just brougt in a tank and they could not compete with that useing their little pop guns.

If the police state swat team came to your door to round you up (even for unjustifed political reasons) your shotgun or handgun would be useless defense. As soon as they saw you with a gun you are dead toast. Face the reality. You cannot win a war with the USA miltary because they got monster weapons and you cannot obtain anything close to what they are armed with.

The liberals do not need or want you Wacco wack-os defending us from the government. I think it is just a fantasy that gun collectors think they can protect us from the potential abuse of the Homeland Security Department. Just vote Bush and his crew out and vote in a liberal then you will not have to worry about the government herding you into some concentration camp. Simple is it not?

[Young]

Not that Simple....Kerry is in with Bush and would actually Be listening to Bush's "Ways of Harming Americans"

Fear the Police state prepped by the GOP & have the Dem's go after the Guns, so that the Next GOP movement can easily institute the Police state.

Our Gov't still relies on American Soldiers & Police to do their bidding....so as long as they don't turn on Us...We might be alright, but when questionaires are floating around the Navy asking Soldiers if they'd fire on unarmed Americans...a lot of people begin to wonder how that situation might arise, if your looking for the support before the situation arises maybe You already see when that scenario might unfold.

Kinda like that DOJ memo to the Whitehouse, that explained that the New...Help America Vote, Bush created intity...Didn't have the Power to postpone or cancel Elections. Now the Whitehouse claimed that they hadn't asked for that Info, but the Memo was Leaked...so we Know that it was investigated and then delivered to the Whitehouse. If some of You wish to be Naive about this, then You must think like this...."The DOJ was going through scenarios and just thought they should give Bush a heads up on this not yet relevant situation."

[giuliano]

the 2nd ammendment was introduced in a time where a well-organised and regulated militia could challenge the state.

that has not been the case for a long time now. a .38 against a load of cluster bombs dropped from a F-18 hornet (or whatever they use) isn't a battle, it's a massacre.

[Melvyn]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, I think anyone would be hard pressed these days to find a leftleaning thinker all for Police State America! They are after all, the most anti-Patriot Act group out there for example. They often refer to Bush as Hitler, his views and those that share them facist.. I could go on, you all know the littany of charges in that reguard. Those are not the point of the thread. What I would like to point out, is the.. silliness? Ignorance? Or is it just blind hate? I dunno, of a good portion of these same people. I say this because this same group also comprises the largest gun control group. The ban the guns crowd breeds on the left. Its just how it is. If they had their way, the 2nd Amendment would cease to exsist. I hope someone reading this all ready sees where I am going here. What is the purpose of the 2nd amendment? To arm the populace as a counter against governmental tyrrany. An armed populace they believed, would be far less likely to fall into a police state. And they are quite correct. In the 20th Century, it was made quite clear that before a police state or tyrant came to power, they first removed the peoples guns. Does the anti-Police State left realize the almost, if it wasn't so scary, Irony that one of thier greatest fears has the most chance of occuring if they managed to negate the 2nd amendment?

I'm guessing you get lot of your information from right wing sources, Mr. Viccio, so I'm glad you particpate on this forum where you can get a more fair and balanced view.

While there are as many left wing crackpots out there as right wing crackpots, both sides using extreme language to express their views, this stuff about democrats and liberals having an unreasonable blind hatred for Bush is a right wing fabrication, a continuation of the decades long, style of painting their opponents as somehow not quite fit and certainly not worth listening to. (blind hatred translates into unbalanced) Actually those who oppose the reelection of George Bush are rather disciplined (so far) about not using negative campaigning and extreme language, unless you think that any crticism at all is the same as blind hatred.

As for as the Patriot act. On the right and the left there has been criticism of the speed with which it was passed and the lack of deliberation in congress. Certain aspects like the right to investigate the reading habits of ordinary citizens without probable cause, seem worthy of further debate. Saying that does not make me less patriotic than anyone else.

The second amendment does not protect us against a police state. There is not a single one of these private militia groups which could stand up against a unit of the U.S. military. If the country went in that direction politically there is not a thing the gun lovers could do about it. What the 2nd amendment does is give political cover to people who love guns so much they are locked in political battle to keep from having even a modicum of regulation.

We would be horrified if we didn't have driving regulations, if cars didn't require registration and liability insurance. Cars are rarely used as a threat to kill, but guns which are used all the time as a threat to kill or to actually kill must be exempt from all government scrutiny!

Well, you'll have to pry my steering wheel out of my cold dead hands.

Mel - Blogging at http://radio.weblogs.com/0137954/

[Young]

Ah, But the American Pilot has to be Crazy enough to drop the Bombs....or Fearing danger to His *Family*....Now that Scenario i could see. We couldn't take control back, before they purposely put Us into the 2nd Great Depression, by pulling their Money out of markets....put by the same token we could bankrupt them by pulling Out Our investments at the same time. I feel that the Media isn't given enough Credit though....they can almost make the People believe anything they say.

[Comrade]

Originally posted by giuliano, the 2nd ammendment was introduced in a time where a well-organised and regulated militia could challenge the state.

No...
Well-regulated meant "functioning" and the militia is "anyone between the ages of 18 and 60."
Those terms didn't mean the same thing back then as they do now. Most people think a militia has to be an organized body, and it's just not true. The American populace is the militia and the point isn't to fight the military but to provide reserves in times of war, to enforce the law (they didn't have police back then, and I still believe people have the right to defend themselves and others without being slandered as vigilantes), stuff like that.

And the people in the military are Americans too, my father happens to be in the military, and the idea that these people would murder their countrymen at the whims of the president is offensive to say the least.

[Comrade]

Originally posted by Young, they can almost make the People believe anything they say.

This is the type of rhetoric that bugs me the most, it comes from the same ideology of the Democrats, that anyone that disagrees with them is either a bigot, stupid, a Nazi, whatever. And I've seen you call people who disagree with you every one of those. How lame.

[Young]

The People of Our Great nation....aren't all rhodes scholars, and when they see a News story they tend to believe it. Bush's Grandfather was director of a company that funded Hitler. Bush wouldn't even attend the NAACP = Bigot, and "We never stop looking for ways to harm Americans" = Idiot

Do You have anything Real to talk about or are You just angry?

[Comrade]

Do I have anything real to talk about?

Young, do you know why he didn't attend the NAACP? I think you do, but you don't want to admit it. Either that, or you don't and are just ignorant of the realities of the NAACP.

But if he is so bigoted, why did he attend the Urban League convention?

He never said, "We never stop looking for ways to harm Americans," that is misquoting and disingenius.

[Young]

Here is the exact quote....

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we," Bush said.

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

[Comrade]

Yes. Very good!
Do we now understand how you are twisting a comment way out of context to push the idea that Bush wanted to harm Americans?

[Mr.Vicchio]

He mis spoke, fuel for the paranoids.

As or the NAACP.. yes Bush is so racist he has a black female and a black male in the highest positions of power any black person has ever held.

I got one thing to say to those that want to take gun away from the people of the USA.

They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold, dead, fingers.

[Comrade]

An armed populace is a benefit in any case, 2.5 million crimes are prevented every year by a citizen with a firearm, and only in 2-3% of those situations are the guns actually fired.
Those are my favorite statistics of all time.

[Young]

V - Bush didn't misspeak...He finally said in Public what he's been saying in private all along.

Condi & Colon are as white as your underwear....and almost as stained.

I agree with the last two lines...just as strongly.

[Comrade]

Young, you are raising the bar. They aren't stereotypically BLACK ENOUGH? Are you serious?

And maybe you should flesh out this relationship you have with Bush, where you are privy to his private conversations.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Young, ya know, I was starting to like you, even understand you.

Then I realzied, Your a race baiting POS whose not worth my time, consider this my parting shot hate monger.

"Condi and Colon are as white as your underwear"

You must have a different stipultation for what qualifies as a black person. Being black only counts if your politics are right huh?

I hope every mionority reads that they have to be of the right poltical mindset of they are "white"

Good bye and good riddance.

[Young]

Oh V....can you be any more dramatic? You know you Like me, you wanna hear my views so much, you invited me to another site...i added the stained part...which is what upset you, because i wanted this response, now before you discard me, answer me this....What has either Condi or Colon done for the Black community? When have they went after Rappers, or called for Their people to Move Up? Thats what People do that Love their heritage, they defend their people, they attempt to help their people....Bush didn't attend the NAACP, because they calculated that non attendance and the outcry that would surely follow would garner more Votes than attending ver would....He's playing to Bigots.

I have many Black friends, some from the hood, some from the Burbs, and some that are farmers or children of Farmers and I grew up helping an elderly Black farmer named Morris because he paid me more than a white Farmer would....Morris said he'd rather work with me because most mexicans he'd encountered were racist. I was raised to beat the snot out of people who were racist, and over 80% of the Black community would fully agree with what i said about Condi & Colon....I like Colon myself....but whats he done for Black People? Condi lied under Oath and I won't forgive that, but she's kinda Hot though.

[Comrade]

Oh, man, Young's kinder, gentler racism.
Colin hasn't worked for his fellow black people? He is obligated to do so, because he is black, especially in a position that has little to do with civil rights?
And what better excuse than, "See! I have black friends!" Look how nice I am being to the minorities!
Vicchio is right.

[Young]

First - I don't consider my friedns Minorities.

Second - How is that You have to be in a Civil Rights position in order to help the Black community?

Why didn't you go find something that Colon or Condi have done to help Black people? Wait...You think something like: Support Bush, Cover Diev & V, Never really Debate just try to get the issue Buttered because it opposes my Leader, attack Young.

Grow Up