The Admitted Inadequacy of Obama

[Yarn]

tPA:

Thoughts?

The daily show has shown numerous examples of where John McCain has been inconsistent in similiar or worse ways. From his fraternizing with men who he once called "agents of intolerance", his de-nauncing of Roe V Wade stance, McCain said he would suspend his campaign until the bail out was passed, the bail out has yet to be passed, McCain has gone back to campaigning, etc. Its gone over many others, the show is rather anti-McCain at the moment.

As to the merits of your particular inconsistency allegation, you have a point.

Obama is very good at inspiring people and gaining support. He is good at rallying them around a "common purpose". I would say however, that he is more of a missionary than a negotiator. It is the way he talks and phrases his arguements that is able to gain him support from people who a liberal such as himself would normally be shunned by. This, along with long existing and newly emerging demographic trends, and the recent failure of the neocons, is why he finds himself able to find support in strange places.

McCain has been successful in portraying himself as a "third way" canidate. A maverick. This is one of the main reasons why he has been faring much better in the polls than his party collegues in the house and senate have been. There has been an anti-Republican flood in the nation of sorts since 06, and the polls have shown support for moderate to heavy Republican seat losses in both houses ever since then. Yet McCain has at times been ahead of Obama. Moving back on topic...
- Electoral-vote.com: President, Senate, House Updated Daily

Obama has worked across the aisle here and there.

In Washington:
"Specifically, Obama worked with Republican Sen. Dick Lugar to get the Lugar-Obama bill passed. According to Obama's Senate website, the bill "enhances U.S. efforts to destroy conventional weapons stockpiles and to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction throughout the world."

In addition, Obama worked with Oklahoma Republican Sen. Tom Coburn on the Coburn-Obama bill. The bill set up a database that tracks where federal dollars are being spent and which contractors receive federal funding."
- Rove: Obama hasn't worked across party lines

Senators Obama and Bunning Introduce Legislation to Expand Coal Use

"WASHINGTON, D.C. -- U.S. Senators Jim Bunning (R-KY) and Barack Obama (D-IL) today announced that they have introduced S.3325, the "Coal-To-Liquid Fuel Promotion Act of 2006." Joining this bipartisan legislation as original co-sponsors are Senators Conrad Burns (R-MT); Richard Lugar (R-IN); Mark Pryor (D-AR); and Lisa Murkowski (R-AK). This comprehensive piece of legislation creates tax incentives for coal-to-liquids (CTL) technology and the construction of CTL plants. If passed, this legislation will help create the infrastructure needed to make CTL a viable energy resource throughout America."
- Senators Obama and Bunning Introduce Legislation to Expand Coal Use | U.S. Senator Barack Obama

I am guessing that bill wasn't passed, since "factbeat" didn't cover it.

In Illinois:

Along the way, he played an important role in drafting bipartisan ethics legislation and health-care reform. He overcame law enforcement objections to codify changes designed to curb racial profiling and to make capital punishment, which he favors, more equitable.

When you come in, especially as a freshman, and work on something like ethics reform, it's not necessarily a way to endear yourself to some of the veteran members of the Illinois General Assembly," said state Sen. Kirk W. Dillard, a Republican who became a friend. "And working on issues like racial profiling was contentious, but Barack had a way both intellectually and in demeanor that defused skeptics."

"He wasn't a maverick," said Cynthia Canary, director of the Illinois Campaign for Political Reform. "There were other legislators I would turn to if I just wanted to make a lot of noise. That wasn't his style."
- Obama Forged Political Mettle In Illinois Capitol - washingtonpost.com

As a general note on accomplishment:
"Barack Obama has introduced nearly 300 bills during his time in the U.S. Senate, and cosponsored close to 1,000 others. If you would like a full look at his legislative efforts, search the 109th Congress at Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 109th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress) and 110th Congress at Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 110th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

• Number of sponsored bills: 65
• Number of sponsored bills passed: 0
• Number of co-sponsored bills 364
• Number of co-sponsored bills passed: 5"
- Obama’s Resume and Legislation Record - Illinois and U.S. | A Womans Blog

Yeah, Nancy Pelosi's ridiculous speech before the vote had nothing to do with it, either.

That arguement, while possibily accurate, was I think a weak one for the Republicans to try to capitalize on. Afterall, it makes them look much worse than it does Pelosi.

[RickSp]

Greg Sargent gets it about right:

McCain Campaign Again Blames Obama For Bailout Collapse While Calling For End To Fingerpointing

So let's try to recap. On Monday, McCain blamed Obama and Dems for the bailout collapse -- and then decried finger-pointing in the very next sentence. On Tuesday, McCain denied he'd ever blamed them, even as his campaign released an ad blaming them. And today, the McCain campaign released an ad calling for an end to the fingerpointing only a few minutes after his campaign got done pointing a finger directly at Obama. I'm a bit lost in the funhouse at this point, but I'm reasonably sure this is how it went down.

[tPA]

Quote by: RickSp LOL. Now you are joining in with the whimpy, whining legislators who put their hurt feelings before the interests of the country? Well isn't that special?

As opposed to the Democrats, who put political sticks-and-carrots and anti-Republican maneuvering above the interests of the country?

They were on board, until Nancy's screed, at which point any normal person would question the action; why should they support something that, as the GOP 2008 platform states, is contrary to the Republican's stated mission (the mission they were presumably elected to pursue, about which their constituents were calling and emailing), especially with such juvenile tactics as a "motivator"?

[tPA]

Yarn,

Thank you for the toughtful post. I will respond, in kind, as soon as I have a chance to go through the links you posted. You were very diplomatic in your response, so thank you again!

As Jefferson said, "Debate leads to inquiry, and inquiry to truth, and that, I am sure, is the sincere goal of us both."

[RickSp]

Quote by: tPA As opposed to the Democrats, who put political sticks-and-carrots and anti-Republican maneuvering above the interests of the country? They were on board, until Nancy's screed, at which point any normal person would question the action; why should they support something that, as the GOP 2008 platform states, is contrary to the Republican's stated mission (the mission they were presumably elected to pursue, about which their constituents were calling and emailing), especially with such juvenile tactics as a "motivator"?

LOL. You continue to ignore the facts. The whining is just silly. Anyone who claims that the House Republicans are so thinned skinned that they should go cry in the corner over a short and largely innoffensive speech obviously ignores the tactics that the Republican House members themeselves use, which are right out of Karl Rove's playbook.

Even Rush Limbaugh made fun of the idea that it was Pelosi's speech that caused the House Republicans not to support the package.

If you want to come up with an excuse for why the Republican's didn't keep their word to their own House leadership, you and Boehner need to try harder. That one is simply stupid.

[tPA]

Quote by: RickSp LOL. You continue to ignore the facts. The whining is just silly. Anyone who claims that the House Republicans are so thinned skinned that they should go cry in the corner over a short and largely innoffensive speech obviously ignores the tactics that the Republican House members themeselves use, which are right out of Karl Rove's playbook. Even Rush Limbaugh made fun of the idea that it was Pelosi's speech that caused the House Republicans not to support the package. If you want to come up with an excuse for why the Republican's didn't keep their word to their own House leadership, you and Boehner need to try harder. That one is simply stupid.

"Karl Rove's playbook," eh? There's an original thought. I forgot that the Evil Mastermind was behind all this. Duplicitous politics didn't even exist until he came around, eh? L. O. L.

I didn't say it was her speech that inspired them to oppose it, I said that it probably didn't help. Why should they support something their constituents didn't want, especially after having Queen Nancy go off on them like that? I am glad they didn't, reasons why notwithstanding. I would have been fine with it if they opposed it because they had hair appointments, the bailout is such a frightening move. I do agree that something needs to be done (and should have been done back when Bush wanted to and the Dems refused, or back when Clinton tried and the Dems obstructed). Should we invest nearly a trillion dollars into failed businesses? Um, no. This is a free market---those businesses that are viable will succeed, those that are not will fail. That's how it works.

If/when it goes through, I guess I will just start waiting for the check, because if the government is going to bail out people who make bad decisions, why not those of us who make good decisions? I mean, I have a mortgage. Why don't I just default on it and wait for the Gubmint to bail me out? I have credit card debt, the result of poor financial decisions on my part; why should I have to worry about paying it?

I think the biggest problem here is that the gov't got involved in the first place, mandating that unemployment benefits and welfare checks are sufficient criteria in considering loan applications. How many people even know that?

[tPA]

Quote by: Sockem Has anyone challenged the fact that Obama has voted with his party 95% of the time, or just more ad hom? Real bi-partisan.

And people seem to forget that a lot of Republicans loathed the idea of John McCain as the nominee, for the myriad of ways he's broken with the party.

[tPA]

Quote by: RickSp LOL. You continue to ignore the facts. The whining is just silly. Anyone who claims that the House Republicans are so thinned skinned that they should go cry in the corner over a short and largely innoffensive speech obviously ignores the tactics that the Republican House members themeselves use, which are right out of Karl Rove's playbook.

I guess Rove was responsible for it, too, right? The Dark Overlord manipulating everyone so that this mess would happen?

Cassy Fiano » Guess who was covering for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in 2004?

[tPA]

Quote by: RickSp LOL. You continue to ignore the facts. The whining is just silly. Anyone who claims that the House Republicans are so thinned skinned that they should go cry in the corner over a short and largely innoffensive speech obviously ignores the tactics that the Republican House members themeselves use, which are right out of Karl Rove's playbook. Even Rush Limbaugh made fun of the idea that it was Pelosi's speech that caused the House Republicans not to support the package. If you want to come up with an excuse for why the Republican's didn't keep their word to their own House leadership, you and Boehner need to try harder. That one is simply stupid.

Here's a good analysis on the issue:
Matt Towery :: Townhall.com :: Everything You Might Not Know About The "Bailout" But Were Afraid To Ask

Question: What started the defection of Republican members in the House for the initial bailout bill? I can hardly believe I'm saying it, but for second time in this presidential general election campaign, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has essentially framed an entire policy debate. First, he used his platform on Fox News to force the issue of domestic drilling for oil and natural gas, by pushing his "capital drill, capital here, capital drill, capital now" effort that he initiated last spring. All the time, John McCain was mum on the issue. Now it's at the top of the GOP's talking points list. Next, Gingrich became one of the first and loudest critics of the proposed first financial rescue plan. He declared early on that if McCain voted for the bill as initially proposed, Obama would win the election. Gingrich communicated his sentiments to the House Republican leadership, many of whom are his closest allies from the days when he was their leader. He made it clear that he saw huge problems with the bill. Knowing Gingrich as I do, I read his footprints from the start in the shifting mood of his former colleagues. Republican House Leader John Boehner of Ohio's internal statement to his colleagues said that while he would vote for the bill, it was nevertheless a "crap sandwich." That was hallmark Gingrich -- give permission for the rank and file to vote their consciences, instead of in lockstep with their own leadership. So was Gingrich right? When at first it looked like the monetary system would seize up in a matter of days, I thought we were back to the Newt of the old "government shutdown" days. But in fairness, he did point out many flaws in the bill.

What are your thoughts on that? Or is Gingrich a Dark Lord of the Sith, too?

[tPA]

What They Said About Fan and Fred - WSJ.com

House Financial Services Committee hearing, Sept. 10, 2003: Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.): I worry, frankly, that there's a tension here. The more people, in my judgment, exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the Treasury, which I do not see. I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound financially and withstand some of the disaster scenarios. . . . Rep. Maxine Waters (D., Calif.), speaking to Housing and Urban Development Secretary Mel Martinez: Secretary Martinez, if it ain't broke, why do you want to fix it? Have the GSEs [government-sponsored enterprises] ever missed their housing goals? * * * House Financial Services Committee hearing, Sept. 25, 2003: Rep. Frank: I do think I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness that we have in OCC [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] and OTS [Office of Thrift Supervision]. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing. . . . * * * House Financial Services Committee hearing, Sept. 25, 2003: Rep. Gregory Meeks, (D., N.Y.): . . . I am just pissed off at Ofheo [Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight] because if it wasn't for you I don't think that we would be here in the first place. And Freddie Mac, who on its own, you know, came out front and indicated it is wrong, and now the problem that we have and that we are faced with is maybe some individuals who wanted to do away with GSEs in the first place, you have given them an excuse to try to have this forum so that we can talk about it and maybe change the direction and the mission of what the GSEs had, which they have done a tremendous job. . .

And the quotes continue. What are thoughts on that?

[RickSp]

This focus on Fannie and Freddie only demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what has transpired. The right focuses on the GSEs without apparently having a clue as to the role of CDOs or CDSs. In this case, ignorance is not bliss. The bail out of Freddie and Fannie was a reflection of the collapse of securitized sub-prime mortgages, not the cause. In general, they had little to do with writing the bad paper. They were just caught holding it.

The unwillingness to enforce the existing regulations in the mortgage markets, coupled with the de-regulation measures pushed by Phil Graham, McCain's chief economic adviser, among other others, set the stage for the mortgage meltdown. Specifically, the exemption of regulation on derivatives such as credit default swaps, as pushed by Graham, provided the trigger for the entire debacle.

I note that Boeher is still having trouble bringing the house Republican's in line. Now that John McCain has taken credit for the bail-out, he is nowhere to be seen.

[Nocebo]

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[Sonart]

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Quote by: Sockem Has anyone challenged the fact that Obama has voted with his party 95% of the time, or just more ad hom? Real bi-partisan.

Given that Obama has only been a U.S. Senator since the beginning of 2005, that means that he's voted 95% of the time AGAINST the Bush League and their rubber stamping, drunken sailor Republican Congress.

And given that Bush has been the worst President in U.S. history, and whose regime has done massive harm to this country, am I supposed to be concerned that Obama wasn't more cooperative with Bush and his Congress?

I think not.

Quote by: tPA What are your thoughts on that? Or is Gingrich a Dark Lord of the Sith, too?

Newt's a bright guy. He was right behind Al Gore in seeing the potential of the Internet, except he didn't do sh!t about it, while Gore did. He's also right behind Gore in seeing global warming as the greatest long term threat to our world, as he's spelled out in his book, A Contract with the Earth.

Alas, as a Congressman and House Speaker, Newt was far more interested in the bomb throwing politics of personal destruction, in the grand tradition of Lee Atwater and his apostle, Karl Rove.

So that would probably make Newt a Sith Lord retired, reinventing himself as a respected elder statesman, working with Hillary Clinton on healthcare, etc. etc. Still, the smartest thing of all that he's done is decide NOT to run for President.

Quote by: Cassy Fiano "shockah — Democrats! 17 out of the 25 top recipients were Democrats."

Now that Democrats control both houses. Yeah, I'm shocked... shocked. Got any numbers on which committee chairs were receiving donations 2 years ago???

Quote by: tPA Cassy Fiano » Guess who was covering for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in 2004?

Is this you holding up legal donations from Fannie and Freddie as some sort of diversion from everything else 8 years of Republican incompetence has wrought? Cuz at this point in history, your cries of outrage ring rather hollow.



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Based on the detour into Red Herringland, I'm guessing the discussion of 'The Admitted Inadequacy of Obama' has run it's course.

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