OIL industry

[Technosoul]

The state of California is basically independant from Arab oil because we pump our own, nearly all the oil used in California came from our own oil pumps.

During the 1980s just before the Reagan "deregulation" idea we had over 80 companies that refined oil into gas (here in Calif.) - today we have less then 15 such companies and so we have less supply - and greater demand - and skyrocketing prices.

We need re-regulation returned to our state, we need to Recall Reagan's Deregulation policy.

Here is some more interesting oil news.

As you know the cost of oil went up to it's highest peak this past year, never before in our history did oil cost as much then it has during the Bush-in-office era. And so guess what President Bush did? Right at the moment oil was at it's highest peaking (cost to the consumers) and right when the oil companies were making their highest profits, Bush orders oil, enough to fill all our "emergency reserves" to the max. (with our tax money - going right into the hands of the oil industry as Tricky Dick #2 smiles). He did not wait til the oil prices drop back down during the winter, or whatever, no - they ordered it all at a time when the rates are highest they have ever been in history.

America - you just got ripped off, you pockets were picked, what a scam.

Technosoul.

[Samildanach]

And you are surprised by this after all Bush's behaviour so far?
Hes out for himself and his crime family and thats all there is to it.

[Dieval]

Could it be that he was trying to fill the reserves incase something happened and we actually needed them?

[Jeff]

Deregulation is hardly to blame for our lack of refinery capacity. We have not built any refineries in over 20 years. In 1982 we had 263 refineries operating in the US. As of 2002 there were only 159. Building newer refineries would not only add to our capacity, but it would also make use of current technologies. Government regulation is the problem that limits the supply of gasoline in this country. We might also consider that oil is up only about 10% from where it was in the late 70’s and early 80’s. I cannot think of any other product that has only had a 10% inflation rate during the last 25 years.

That is not to say that I like the higher gas prices. Gas prices will have a big affect on inflation and thus hurt the potential growth in the economy. Without so many environmental restraints many companies would be willing to update or build new refineries. A greater supply, according to the rule of supply and demand, would lower gas prices.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/finance/...fcap_tab2.html

[kharmajunkie]

Originally posted by Dieval, Could it be that he was trying to fill the reserves incase something happened and we actually needed them?

How long are we going to keep hearing this line? Speaking of lines, was George
this stingy with his coke back in the 70's/80's?
Defending an oil company is akin to being a political "uncle tom"; will you dance a jig for Dick Cheney if he asks you?

[Dieval]

Originally posted by kharmajunkie,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kharmajunkie,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>How long are we going to keep hearing this line?[/b]

Until you figure out that everything isn't a conspiracy theory and there's actual value to having our strategic oil reserves FULL.

Originally posted by kharmajunkie,@ Defending an oil company is akin to being a political "uncle tom";

When did our oil reserves become an "oil company"?
<!--QuoteBegin-kharmajunkie,
will you dance a jig for Dick Cheney if he asks you?[/quote]
This question(and the coke question) are really just stupid and not necessary.

[kharmajunkie]

Dieval,
I never used the term "conspiracy theory", that's you throwing that term out there to try to discredit me. I know that's a GOP fave Dieval but it's not relevant in regards to me. And I know that oil reserves are not oil companies, I was calling you out for being an apologist of the oil companies and the Bush admin, which has ties to the oil companies. So forget all the conspiracy talk, let's just look at it from a "conflict of interests" standpoint. They have interests in the defense industry and the oil companies and go to war in an oil rich country yet you don't see a conflict of interests?
If you and your President really cared about society and freeing oppressed peoples, I know of some countries that condone the child sex
trade that we could go and do some real good. I'm prior service and willing to die for that cause; are you or your President? You won't find any oil so I doubt it.
(ok I veered off a bit, sorry)

[Dieval]

Originally posted by kharmajunkie, Dieval, I never used the term "conspiracy theory", that's you throwing that term out there to try to discredit me. I know that's a GOP fave Dieval but it's not relevant in regards to me. And I know that oil reserves are not oil companies, I was calling you out for being an apologist of the oil companies and the Bush admin, which has ties to the oil companies. So forget all the conspiracy talk, let's just look at it from a "conflict of interests" standpoint. They have interests in the defense industry and the oil companies and go to war in an oil rich country yet you don't see a conflict of interests? If you and your President really cared about society and freeing oppressed peoples, I know of some countries that condone the child sex trade that we could go and do some real good. I'm prior service and willing to die for that cause; are you or your President? You won't find any oil so I doubt it. (ok I veered off a bit, sorry)

The problem is that you're making a claim, as many on the left do, that the entire war was about oil - everything is about oil - and that is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.
Now the original post implies that Bush waited until the worst possible moment to purchase oil, thus making a profit for his "oil buddies". At the time, I believe there were worries about having enough oil over here in general, opec cut production by 1 million barrels A DAY, terrorists making trouble for the now flowing Iraq oil, refineries closing down for "maintenance" in CA - It may not have been the best time to fill up the reserve..should it have been done before? Probably, but I believe lots of people, mostly dems, were calling of the strategic reserves to be used as soon as gas prices hit $2(if not before)....well, the price of gass didn't stop there, so should we just let the reserves go? What about winter, when people NEED heating oil for their houses, doesn't that drive up the price even more? Should we have waited until then? There are many problems with the oil industry - I live in CA, I know what price gouging is like, believe me - but blaming everything on the Pres is a pointless waist of time.

[kharmajunkie]

You're putting words in my mouth Dieval. I never said that the war was all about oil. I just pointed out the obvious conflict of interests with this administration and the war. Apparently you don't want to see it because you just spouted out a lot of numbers about oil. As far as my being against the war in Iraq, I was for it. In
90-91 when they were invading Kuwait. I was on the bubble this time but it was the obvious conflict of interest in the Executive branch that pushed me against the war. Why are you so quick to defend your President about the oil charges but didn't acknowledge financial ties to the defense industry?
And the coke thing was a friggin' joke dieval, lighten up. Just because we all argue with each other doesn't mean we can't crack some jokes.

[Samildanach]

I mean...like how naieve can you be. Wake up Dieval....wake up and see what is happening around you. Bush could choose anytime to fill oil reserves even before the war started, after all he was the only one who actually knew when he was going to war...he could have stockpiled before the war if he wanted to, but that wouldn't have made any money. If you think this war is about anything other than money and power then you are deluding yourself. It doesn't take a conspiracy theory to explain the obvious.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by kharmajunkie,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kharmajunkie,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You're putting words in my mouth Dieval. I never said that the war was all about oil. I just pointed out the obvious conflict of interests with this administration and the war.[/b]

People will find conflicts of interest in everything Bush(or any president) does. Pretty much every country in the world uses oil so saying that's a conflict of interest is not exactly corret because it would apply to anything he does in a foriegn country.

Originally posted by kharmajunkie,@ Why are you so quick to defend your President about the oil charges but didn't acknowledge financial ties to the defense industry?

Because it seems to me that people are quick to jump on the band wagon when it comes to Bush-bashing, even if there's possibly no truth involved. The original post just made a claim that Bush bought oil(does he even do that? I'm sure there's other people that actually do it) at the point when it's price was the highest...is that true? I didn't see a story or any sort of proof backing that claim up, yet everyone just accepted it - NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

<!--QuoteBegin-Samildanach,
I mean...like how naieve can you be. Wake up Dieval....wake up and see what is happening around you. Bush could choose anytime to fill oil reserves even before the war started, after all he was the only one who actually knew when he was going to war...he could have stockpiled before the war if he wanted to, but that wouldn't have made any money. If you think this war is about anything other than money and power then you are deluding yourself. It doesn't take a conspiracy theory to explain the obvious.[/quote]You just explained everything away with a conspiracy theory - and I'm the niave one...rofl.

[kharmajunkie]

You just proved my point about you and your ilk Dieval, you accuse anyone that criticizes the current administration as a "Bush basher". So was I a Clinton basher back in the nineties or just a citizen pointing out valid criticisms of the Clinton whitehouse.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by kharmajunkie, You just proved my point about you and your ilk Dieval, you accuse anyone that criticizes the current administration as a "Bush basher". So was I a Clinton basher back in the nineties or just a citizen pointing out valid criticisms of the Clinton whitehouse.

I don't know what you said about Clinton in the 90's, so how can I answer that question?

But it just seemed like everyone jumps on anything that is anti-Bush(i.e. this story) and runs screaming through the night about how bad Bush is, not even bothering to check to see if there are any facts to back it up....All we have to go by is Technosouls rant about how Bush robbed the American public...in that rant there were no links to facts or stories supporting his claims, yet no one bothered to even give it a second thought - he's guilty...

[Compugasm]

If you have alot of something, would prices be high, or low?

[Mr.Vicchio]

The comments about this being a war for oil jsut goes to show that PT Barnum was right, there is a sucker born every day. What a hogwash claim that is, but it sounds good and it appeals to the emotionally charged. Toss out a few "facts" get an "expert", preferrably one with lots of pretty charts, people whose lives are run on emotion jsut cannot resist a colorful pretty chart... and violia! You have instant poltical backing and money running into your pocket.

Amazing.

[Young]

Shell posted a 54% better than expected second quarter earnings report.

Every Oil company was over 38%

Grow up Die-V....are the two of you heavily invested in Oil? Rich? Crazy? Terrorists? Those are the only People who want Bush to be Elected.

Cheney is blaming Democrats non support of his energy plan for Oil prices....with a Republican House & Senate....its more than the Dem's who think his Energy plan is Nutso.

[Dieval]

So maybe the oil companies should just give their products away, is that what you're getting at? We are capatilists here(well, unless you're a communist, are you?) after all, shouldn't they be out to make profit? I may not like paying alot for gas, but until we aren't dependant on oil, there's really not a whole lot we can do..I'm just glad we're not paying $5+ like in Europe...

[Young]

Are you paying attention at all.....This is a President whose in the pockets of big oil....if they're making this kinda money you'd think we could catch a break, and your defending Americans being robbed at gunpoint.

[Technosoul]

Originally posted by Dieval, Could it be that he was trying to fill the reserves incase something happened and we actually needed them?

That is true, it might have been thought that the war in Iraq might cause arab nations to boycott us from getting oil (which I doubt) or that percentage we were getting from Iraq would be disrupted and so we had better stock up while we can, or they might have thought that they needed to make sure our military airplanes, tanks, and whatever would not run out of gas during an extended world wide conflict.

So good point taken on your behalf.

Technosoul.

[Technosoul]

Originally posted by Jeff, Deregulation is hardly to blame for our lack of refinery capacity. We have not built any refineries in over 20 years. In 1982 we had 263 refineries operating in the US. As of 2002 there were only 159. Building newer refineries would not only add to our capacity, but it would also make use of current technologies. Government regulation is the problem that limits the supply of gasoline in this country. We might also consider that oil is up only about 10% from where it was in the late 70’s and early 80’s. I cannot think of any other product that has only had a 10% inflation rate during the last 25 years. That is not to say that I like the higher gas prices. Gas prices will have a big affect on inflation and thus hurt the potential growth in the economy. Without so many environmental restraints many companies would be willing to update or build new refineries. A greater supply, according to the rule of supply and demand, would lower gas prices. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/finance/...fcap_tab2.html

And so how did Reagan's de-regulation translate into more governmental regulation and the need to shut down refineries? What are those environmental restraints you speak of, do you really know? Are the environmental safty codes and public health concerns the "evils" causing high gas prices or are they in fact very important? You perhaps think such restaints are just to save some worthless bugs or spotted owl, but I think if you knew more about those environmental standards you would be happy they are in place. And if you got children just think of the money you save on medical bills because of those regulations.