Palin's Daughter Pregnant

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio So her daughter makes an error in judgment and you hold that as proof she's a bad leader and mother. Got it. Reading Daily Kos today?

She's a slow learner. She believes she can help prevent teen pregnancy with abstinence only education. Clearly she needs to rethink some part of that idea.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: deadeye I have no idea who Jamie Lynn Spears is.

Tell you what... walk up to the very next person you see on the street and ask them.

Quote by: deadeye I don't see the connection that you are trying to make however. No one is saying that an unmarried women should get pregnant, and everyone is saying that we should forgive them so that they can care for their baby.

Afraid not, deadeye...

What conservatives were saying was that Spear's pregnancy was due to bad parents.

“Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves,” Bill O’Reilly declared.

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Caller: "Would you tend to think that a family in this position, though, wouldn’t you think that there would be a more watchful eye as a parent to be watching over these kids so this doesn’t happen to them?"

Rush Limbaugh: I would certainly hope so, but it’s long past time for this to happen. The parents here are the culprits!

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And yet somehow, Bristol Palin's pregnancy has nothing whatsoever to do with her parents.

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[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Thanatos She's a slow learner. She believes she can help prevent teen pregnancy with abstinence only education. Clearly she needs to rethink some part of that idea.

When I was a freshman in highscool, I went to Cabot High in Arkansas. They were ANTI ANTI ANTI Sex ed of any sort.

Really high teen pregnancy rate.

I graduated from Derby High in Kansas. Sex Ed was readily taught.

Really high teen pregnancy rate.



Ya know the difference between abstinence and safe sex don't you? One works 100% of the time it's practiced, the other has a failure rate.

[Sonart]

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Ya know the difference between abstinence and safe sex don't you? One works 100% of the time it's practiced, the other has a failure rate.

Obviously not, since Sarah Palin advocates abstinence only and -- OOPS -- her daughter got pregnant!

"Though it is hard to imagine cash-strapped states forgoing potential funds for education in any form, recent data demonstrates that abstinence-only programs have failed to produce the desired outcome. Such programs show no evidence of delaying kids’ first sexual experience nor have the programs been effective in reducing teen pregnancies for those who do have sex."

Despite that data, abstinence proponents point to recent teen pregnancy rates for support. According to the National Survey of Family Growth, pregnancy rates “have fallen from 117 births per 1,000 females in 1990 to 76 per 1,000 in 2002.”

However, John Santelli, a professor of population studies at Columbia University, indicated that “most of the 35% drop occurred before 1998, when two separate federal abstinence-only programs were started.”

In fact, out of wedlock teen pregnancies are now back up.

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[Sonart]

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OOoo - ooo, forgot to mention.

O'Reilly came back against the claims of hypocrisy regarding his criticism of the Spears family while defending Palin.

The difference, he claimed, was that Jamie Spears parents let her run around unsupervised.

Amazing!!!! That means that 17 yr. old Bristol Palin got pregnant out of wedlock UNDER HER PARENTS DIRECT SUPERVISION!!! LOL!!

Got it!

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[tfox_60]

Quote by: Sonart . What conservatives were saying was that Spear's pregnancy was due to bad parents. “Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves,” Bill O’Reilly declared.

??? Sounds like hes talking about the behavior of Brittney.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Sonart . Obviously not, since Sarah Palin advocates abstinence only and -- OOPS -- her daughter got pregnant! "Though it is hard to imagine cash-strapped states forgoing potential funds for education in any form, recent data demonstrates that abstinence-only programs have failed to produce the desired outcome. Such programs show no evidence of delaying kids’ first sexual experience nor have the programs been effective in reducing teen pregnancies for those who do have sex." Despite that data, abstinence proponents point to recent teen pregnancy rates for support. According to the National Survey of Family Growth, pregnancy rates “have fallen from 117 births per 1,000 females in 1990 to 76 per 1,000 in 2002.” However, John Santelli, a professor of population studies at Columbia University, indicated that “most of the 35% drop occurred before 1998, when two separate federal abstinence-only programs were started.” In fact, out of wedlock teen pregnancies are now back up. .

Obviously her daughter failed to practice abstinence. Durrr.

[tfox_60]

Quote by: Sonart . Obviously not, since Sarah Palin advocates abstinence only and -- OOPS -- her daughter got pregnant!

??? uuuhhh she didnt receive a visit from the stork, she had sex. Your arguements make about as much sense as me pointing to some girls comprehensive sex education as the reason she got pregnant. And since Wasilla high school doesnt teach abstinence only, your arguement makes even less sense.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: tfox_60 ??? uuuhhh she dint receive a visit from the stork, she had sex. Your arguements make about as much sense as me pointing to some girls comprehensive sex education as the reason she got pregnant. And since Wasilla high school doesnt teach abstinence only, your arguement makes even less sense.

SSSSHHHHH!!!! Dont' burst his little bubble of "logic"

Palin's daughter was taught "safe sex", and Abstenance in the home. Both obviously failed to prevent the pregnancy.

The question to be asked is, if she hadn't been taught there was a "safe" was to have sex, would she have had sex in the first place?

[Sonart]

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Quote by: tfox ??? uuuhhh she didnt receive a visit from the stork, she had sex. Your arguements make about as much sense as me pointing to some girls comprehensive sex education as the reason she got pregnant. .

You really are a literalist, aren't you.

Yes, she had sex. The point of 'Abstinence Only' is NOT to have sex. Therefore it obviously didn't work because she DID have sex. And since conservatives constantly preach that sex ed begins first and foremost in the home, with the parents, and since Sarah Palin advocates abstinence only, then there appears to be something wrong with either Palin's parenting or the concept of abstinence only.

Quote by: tfox And since Wasilla high school doesnt teach abstinence only, your arguement makes even less sense

Apparentlly Wasila High School doesn't teach much of anything.

Wasilla's lack of sex education -- "But since the announcement, the debate has turned to Palin's stance on sex education (in a gubernatorial debate she said she would not support explicit sex education), and it has caused me to remember my own sex education at Wasilla High School, the same high school Palin and several of her children attended.

To say it was lacking is far from accurate. It was abysmal."

Quote by: tfox Sounds like hes talking about the behavior of Brittney.

Except Britney's not pregnant, 16 yr-old Jamie Lynne is. Your point?

Quote by: Mrs.V Palin's daughter was taught "safe sex", and Abstenance in the home. Both obviously failed to prevent the pregnancy.

Yep, and conservative logic being that that would be the fault of the parents. So why is it not Sarah Palin's fault that her teenage daughter got pregnant out of wedlock?

Quote by: Mrs.V The question to be asked is, if she hadn't been taught there was a "safe" was to have sex, would she have had sex in the first place?

Since she didn't pay attention to that any more than she did her mother, who knows. But it's the parents responsibility, right?

RIGHT?

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[tfox_60]

Quote by: Sonart Apparentlly Wasila High School doesn't teach much of anything.

Makes your connection between this girls pregnancy and abstinence only education, and your multiple posts on the topic pretty much meaningless shiite you dreamed up in your own head.

Quote by: Sonart Except Britney's not pregnant, 16 yr-old Jamie Lynne is. Your point?

Bill's assesment of the Spears parenting ability is based upon Brittneys behaviour, not jamies pregnancy. Just another of your false arguements unconnected with reality. You might ask yourself what was your point.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Yep, and conservative logic being that that would be the fault of the parents. So why is it not Sarah Palin's fault that her teenage daughter got pregnant out of wedlock? Since she didn't pay attention to that any more than she did her mother, who knows. But it's the parents responsibility, right? RIGHT?

No, wrong wrong.

Don't know what comic book of "how to ID a Conservative" you read, but it's silliness. OH THAT'S right you get some far right guy on TV making some loud point and think that is what ALL conservatives think. You're almost as nonsensical and irrelevant as barts.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: thebuescherman I can't believe what I am hearing here. When a conservatively-raised girl becomes pregnant, it is a symbol of hypocrisy and poor raising of the child? If you truly believe that, you are so far out there... I don't even know. Ladies, let me put it down on the line for you. Shit happens to people. All people. No matter how hard Sarah Palin tries to raise her child, the decision is ultimately Bristol's choice. Another little fact of life: kids do dumb shit. You're just so blatantly biased against conservatives that you would use a daughter's pregnancy as an attack on a candidate. If Obama's daughters were pregnant (I know they are too young, assuming they were older), I would never use that as a platform to attack Barrack. I know some on the right would do it, but that just makes them assholes too. In my book, anyone engaging in such an activity is of the lowest quality. Kudos to Senator Obama when he said that Palin's family, and his as well, should be left out of the debate. You won't hear me give credit to him often, but I will give it to him when he deserves it. And here, he does.

While I agree that family, and family problems, should be left out for the most part, here is the problem...

From Monica Lewinsky, to O'Bama's a Islamic terrorist wannabe, to McCain's supposedly illegitimate Black daughter Neo-Cons are the fist to use this crap against anyone and they don't even bother with the truth: but lies. (Don't even start on Lewinsky. Yes, he shouldn't have, but impeachable? Only if you really do believe that "is" is actually past tense as well as present, and that someone should be impeached over what they didn't say.)

Then, from their supposedly morally "superior" pedestals on high... while calling others "uppity" and "elitist," they preach to the nation as if they knew the answers when their own "answers" have failed them: as obviously has happened in Palin's case. So, do I wish we'd stop on both sides? Yes, I do. Do I understand when the Left snaps back? Yes, I do. For all their cries to keep the family out of it, if the Religious Right has their faces ground into mud of their own making? I shed not a single tear and am amused, no matter how much I wish this wasn't part of the debate.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Clinton wasn't impeached for dallying with the help, he was impeached for breaking the law.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Clinton wasn't impeached for dallying with the help, he was impeached for breaking the law.

So the official lie told by the Right goes, only it's a lie. Why wasn't he charged by the judge with perjury? He broke no law. He said that there "is" no relationship. The Neo Cons turned that into past tense and said he broke the law by lying under oath. The judge only charged him with "not being forthcoming enough." ( I disagree with that decision, but that's another; more philosophical, matter dealing with just how much any defendant should ever be required to say.)

When asked why Gingrich might do impeachment after they won in 94, he said, "Because we can." There have been two for presidents in US history: both driven by politics and little else.

We've been here before Mr. V, and gotten no where. Besides: OT. If you want, open another thread, but it's been done before and gone nowhere.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Former President of the United States Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, and acquitted by the Senate on February 12, 1999. The charges, perjury, obstruction of justice and abuse of power arose from the Monica Lewinsky scandal and the Paula Jones law suit. The trial proceedings were largely party-line, with no Democratic Senators voting for conviction and only five Democratic Representatives voting to impeach. In all, 50 senators voted "not guilty," and 50 voted "guilty" on the obstruction charge. The Senate also acquitted on the charge of perjury with 55 votes cast as "not guilty," and 45 votes as "guilty." It was only the second impeachment of a President in American history, following the impeachment of Andrew Johnson in 1868.

Impeachment of Bill Clinton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[thebuescherman]

Quote by: Ken Carman Then, from their supposedly morally "superior" pedestals on high... while calling others "uppity" and "elitist," they preach to the nation as if they knew the answers when their own "answers" have failed them: as obviously has happened in Palin's case. So, do I wish we'd stop on both sides? Yes, I do. Do I understand when the Left snaps back? Yes, I do. For all their cries to keep the family out of it, if the Religious Right has their faces ground into mud of their own making? I shed not a single tear and am amused, no matter how much I wish this wasn't part of the debate.

Both sides often claim the high moral ground. Both sides claim each other is elitist. Arrogance is high in politics these days. It doesn't matter who throws the first punch, in my mind. And it doesn't matter what side is throwing the punches either, they're all the same to me.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Thanatos She's a slow learner. She believes she can help prevent teen pregnancy with abstinence only education. Clearly she needs to rethink some part of that idea.

Whoa there.

If one abstains from having sex one cannot become pregnant. If one can teacher kids the evils of having babies while young and out of wedlock then one can also teach the value of abstinence.

Kids are people like all of us and they aren't all that stupid. So they can learn the having sex is wrong and they can adhere to that law.

I attended high school right smack dab in the middle of Marin County CA. During my four years in HS I recall only one girl becoming pregnant. Maybe there were some more, but I only recall one. We were taugh that unwed motherhood was wrong. We were taught this by our parents, our teachers and our society.

When I was teaching high school in Napa, CAlif, we had an average of 52 girls a year give birth out of wedlock. The school's student population was about 2,000 kids.

What changed?


Liberalism

[Ken Carman]

I will add this however. Let's say Mr. V is 100% correct about Clinton, which he's not but for the fun of it; and to bring my previous post more "OT..."

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Notice the tactic folks? You can't debate the point so you pick out one minor point to quibble with to distract from the major point that the Religious Right lords over everyone with their supposed moral superiority and, when their caught with their pants down, they cry fowl and attempt to distract from their moralistic uppity-ness and elitism by picking out one minor point they think they can win... and also use it to attempt to defang the real message, and make us ignore their exposed genitals... like when one of their fellow believers have been soliciting some guy for sex in a public bathroom while calling another pol in public a "dirty, nasty boy,' or when their children have proven that "abstinence only" doesn't work... etc.

Good going Mr. V.

You just proved my point.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Proved what point? You brought Clinton up, it's all ready settled that Palin's daughter has been exposed to both Sex Ed in school and Abstinence in school and obviously failed to heed either and is now going to face the consequences of her actions.

The "AH HA!" of "Mrs. Palins Abstinence only failed!" line of attack by you ditzy lefties only lasts until people find out her High School does in fact teach mandated Sex Ed...

So the fault here is entirely on a 17 year old girl that CHOSE to ignore the information given her by family and the school system because of "love and hormones"

I.E. you have no point aside politics as usual, which doubles the humor in that the candidate these attacks is supposed to benefit is the supposed Candidate of Change.

You brought Clinton into this, I merely chose to partake in a moment of levity and see how much you would scream "sex sex sex" when it was "obstruction obstruction obstruction"