Palin's Daughter Pregnant

[linda_mary_13]

Hypocrisy would be a parent, who believed truly their child should not have sex and express that, and then take them to a health clinic for birth control. That is a parent talking out of both sides of their mouth.

A parent who gets their child on birth control, is telling the child it is okay to have sex.

Sarah Palin is consistent with her belief. The child is born with free will.

[minorwork]

Quote by: linda_mary_13 Hypocrisy would be a parent, who believed truly their child should not have sex and express that, and then take them to a health clinic for birth control. That is a parent talking out of both sides of their mouth. A parent who gets their child on birth control, is telling the child it is okay to have sex. Sarah Palin is consistent with her belief. The child is born with free will.

It's NOT ok to have sex?

[linda_mary_13]

No, it is not okay for a child to have sex when their parent says don't have sex. A parent tells a child not to have sex because they believe it is not good for their child to have sex.

[tfox_60]

Quote by: Nono 'Tis in spades. But you can't reach hypocrites. They obsessively remember Bill Clinton, and instantly forget Jimmy Swaggart. The only thing that counts is what fits into their worldview.

Some might hold THEIR president to a higher standard than they would some preachers whose church they have never been to. And different standards of decorum for the White House oval office and seedy motels.

[tfox_60]

Quote by: minorwork It's NOT ok to have sex?

You pro pederasty or something?

[minorwork]

Quote by: tfox_60 You pro pederasty or something?

What did you call me?

Quote by: linda_mary_13 No, it is not okay for a child to have sex when their parent says don't have sex. A parent tells a child not to have sex because they believe it is not good for their child to have sex.

I agree. It is not okay that a child does what the parent prohibits. Is the parent naive to expect 100% compliance? Why do they have sex anyhow? Did the parent fail in explaining why it is not good for their child to have sex when the parent obviously has?

[linda_mary_13]

Quote by: minorwork What did you call me? I agree. It is not okay that a child does what the parent prohibits. Is the parent naive to expect 100% compliance? Why do they have sex anyhow? Did the parent fail in explaining why it is not good for their child to have sex when the parent obviously has?

You are naive if you expect anything from anyone.

[Nono]

Still no sources, eh mary? My my.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: linda_mary_13 Hypocrisy would be a parent, who believed truly their child should not have sex and express that, and then take them to a health clinic for birth control. That is a parent talking out of both sides of their mouth. A parent who gets their child on birth control, is telling the child it is okay to have sex. Sarah Palin is consistent with her belief. The child is born with free will.

Although I haven't been arguing "hypocrisy," and feel in that sense you're probably right. I couldn't disagree more with your statement...

"A parent who gets their child on birth control, is telling the child it is okay to have sex."

So a parent who shows a child how to work matches, pull a fire alarm and escape in case of fire is telling that child it's "OK" to be a pyromaniac, or pull false alarms or escape to go out and have sex in case that same route would allow them to get out of the house unheared, unseen? No, the logic in your argument is absent, as is logical parenting. Ignorance provides nothing and encourages only more. In the case of a child who is already having sex, unapproved, the parent could hogtie him or her, beat them, lock them in their room and feed them through a hole... or let them, since they already have decided, exercise "free will," either way. That doesn't mean they approve, and there's no good reason not to express disapproval.

BTW, her daughter's boyfriend on his own blog is stating in no way does he want a child, but the mother and the GOP is still using him for political purposes: claiming they're going to get married... no specific date. Now that IS hypocrisy... and a failed mother who's simply using this in a cynical fashion for political gain. My guess is, if he does opt out, little to nothing will be said in the corporate press or by the GOP. Or it will be "made his worthwhile to do so" by extreme threats or bribes.

So much for the party of "responsibility," or "adults in charge" promised 8 years ago. Just the opposite.

[??!]

A mother could tell her child not to have sex. Or a mother could tell her child not to have sex, but if you do, use contraception. Now one of these methods is less likely to produce a zygote. Unwanted or not.

[linda_mary_13]

From the sounds of it none of you have children.

Children look to their parents for approval. Children also want to seperate from their parents. It is a catch 22 for parents. When you can't control their actions anymore, it's your words that serve as guidance. You send mixed messages and you get what we have. Children who are confused. Who don't know right from wrong. Know being the critical word here. To know something, doesn't mean you'll do it, but you know that what you're doing is right or wrong. The choice is now the childs.

Ignorance is eliminated as an excuse.

So, the issue is not birth control, but disobedience to the parent. It's not a pretty sight watching baby birds fly out of the nest.

You put a child on birth control and they are going to have sex regularly. Because they can. Because society gave them the okay. Because everyone does it. Is birth control the magic bullet? What about the other ramifications of sex like disease. Should we judge the parent, who places their child on birth control, and then that child get AIDS? Did the parent place the loaded gun in the child's hand?

Come on you guys. The word and reasoning is all we have. Each of us will take it or leave it. But God, don't withhold it or confuse it. Mixed messages are the root of most problems we face. You can't physically stop a 17 year old. She made a mistake. Not her mom. If she could decide to have sex, she could have decided to get birth control on her own. She chose to do what she wanted to do and now she has to live with it. Isn't that the case for all our decisions in life.

[minorwork]

I'd known my 14 year old step daughter was sexually mature for a couple of months when my wife asked one night at 1 in the morning after I got off 4-12 shift, "Is it okay with you if I put her on the Pill?" I almost choked. "She's not? Of course put her on the pill. But I have to talk to her." She was kind of shocked when I told her of my intention to tell the daughter that her mom would be the primary hazard of being on the pill. When I explained the wife said okay but
wasn't entirely convinced.

Later I asked the daughter what she knew about sex. Well, I didn't learn anything new, but was a bit shocked at her knowledge of the diseases and mechanics. Then I told her that her Mom wanted her on the pill. She knew about that. I explained that she would gain some sense of freedom in that she might be able to explore sexuality without the usual conception taking place.

But there are hazards in this conceptionless sex that she will encounter if she has sex at her age. (Then my main message.) The primary problem area will be your mother. She didn't believe me because her mother wanted her on the Pill. I explained.

Your mother will want to tell you who to date, who to have as friends, and who not to have sex with. Why? Your mother, at your age, did not have the Pill. Your mother would control every part of your social life if she could.

Then I told her how the gossip at school would start and how eventually she would be made fun of over her explorations. "Do you understand?" I asked. When she said yes, I knew she had not a clue. Oh well, teenagers. A coupla' years later, after I divorced her mom, I asked the daughter if she remembered my talk and if it had helped her in any way. She remembered it and it didn't help her but was pretty much on the money as a prediction.

"Every man and every woman is a star". That is to say, every human being is intrinsically an independent individual with his own proper character and proper motion.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Night While Palin's daughter has the luxury of having a wealthy family, many poor woman can simply not afford to be pregnant.

Therefore, they should not get pregnant. It is easy to not get pregnant you know.

It was wrong for Palin's daughter to become pregnant, but we aren't perfect beings.

Sarah's, who loves her daughter has accepted what she did. The young mother to be is doing the right thing my marrying the father. The couple can then carry on with their lives with minimum stigma. No one has to be killed. Sarah's actions have made the best of a less than perfect situation. She showed good judgement, a good quality for a president....or a veep.

[Clarence]

The couple can then carry on with their lives with minimum stigma.

why would she deserve any negative stigma regardless? She wasn't educated to avoid her pregnancy. She found a mate, if that happens it's gonna happen, basically. How would it be her fault?

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Clarence why would she deserve any negative stigma regardless? She wasn't educated to avoid her pregnancy. She found a mate, if that happens it's gonna happen, basically. How would it be her fault?

HOT FLASH, HOT FLASH! One is taught right from wrong by one's parents, and it is not the job of the school system to teach such things. This is why a strong family ethic is so important to our society. This is also why the unintended consequences of the welfare system, which helped to destroy poor peoples' families, has been do devistating to our country.

Right is right and wrong is wrong. Sarah's daughter knew that what she did was morally wrong. But she did it anyway. She is paying the price for her actions. She is not however being abandoned by her parents. They will help her over this hurdle and things will be fine.

The schools are not and should not be a part of this process.

[minorwork]

Quote by: Deadeye Therefore, they should not get pregnant. It is easy to not get pregnant you know.

Like it was easy for Ted Haggard not to purchase methamphetamine and a male prostitute.

Quote by: Deadeye It was wrong for Palin's daughter to become pregnant, but we aren't perfect beings.

Not wrong.

Quote by: Deadeye Sarah's, who loves her daughter has accepted what she did. The young mother to be is doing the right thing my marrying the father. The couple can then carry on with their lives with minimum stigma. No one has to be killed. Sarah's actions have made the best of a less than perfect situation. She showed good judgement, a good quality for a president....or a veep.

Stigma is wrong.

[minorwork]

Quote by: Deadeye HOT FLASH, HOT FLASH! One is taught right from wrong by one's parents, and it is not the job of the school system to teach such things. This is why a strong family ethic is so important to our society. This is also why the unintended consequences of the welfare system, which helped to destroy poor peoples' families, has been do devistating to our country. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Sarah's daughter knew that what she did was morally wrong. But she did it anyway. She is paying the price for her actions. She is not however being abandoned by her parents. They will help her over this hurdle and things will be fine. The schools are not and should not be a part of this process.

Keep it on the streets where it belongs.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: minorwork Not wrong.

If you believe, as it appears that you do; that getting pregnant outside of marriage is just fine, then there is no reason for us to continue this debate.

But just out of curiousity what other cultural axioms that we hold dear do you also eschew? Since our normally held family values seem to hold little meaning to you, what other commonly held beliefs do you disagree with?

[Deadeye]

Quote by: minorwork Keep it on the streets where it belongs.

Cute remark, but it doesn't address my point. Our cultural morals are passed down from father to son and mother to daughter. The school system should not be involved in the process. It's not within their perview. It's not their job. Rather it's the job of the family.

[minorwork]

Quote by: Deadeye If you believe, as it appears that you do; that getting pregnant outside of marriage is just fine, then there is no reason for us to continue this debate.

Getting pregnant is a result of a spiritual as well as physical union and is okay. Cultural marriage rites are, well, dependent on the culture. If the culture gives no honor to the God given ability to procreate by attempting to control this blessed event, then there is a stigma attached that is culture driven. The stigma is man's invention.

Quote by: Deadeye But just out of curiousity what other cultural axioms that we hold dear do you also eschew? Since our normally held family values seem to hold little meaning to you, what other commonly held beliefs do you disagree with?

Since I don't know what cultural axioms you hold dear, I will give those I hold dear. OK?

Heaven and Hell are to be experienced before physical death in every Biblical sense and then some. Time is short. Don't do to others what you wouldn't want them doing to you. Everyone is a lover of truth. "Your sect (Judaism) by its sufferings has furnished a remarkable proof of the universal spirit of religious intolerance inherent in every sect, disclaimed by all while feeble, and practiced by all when in power. Our laws have applied the only antidote to this vice, protecting all on an equal footing. But more remains to be done, for although we are free by law, we are not so in practice; public opinion erects itself into an Inquisition, and exercises its offices with as much fanaticism as fans the flames of [a burning heretic]." Thomas Jefferson Bachelors know more about women than married men; if they didn't they'd be married too. "O you proud Christians, wretched souls and small, Who by the dim lights of your twisted minds Believe you prosper even as you fall, Can you not see that we are worms, each one Born to become the angelic butterfly That flies defenseless to the Judgement Throne?" It was once written "To thine own self be true". But how do we know who we really are? Every man must confront the monster within himself, if he is ever to find peace without. The kingdom of God cometh not with observation. The kingdom of God is within you. I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him. 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Quote by: Deadeye Cute remark, but it doesn't address my point. Our cultural morals are passed down from father to son and mother to daughter.

It worked for me. Oh, you forgot the power of the children's peer group.

Quote by: Deadeye The school system should not be involved in the process. It's not within their perview. It's not their job. Rather it's the job of the family.

For you I'm sure. Would you be the enforcer and ensure every family does its job? No. Would your hands remain clean by attaching a stigma to them if an unwed pregnancy occurs? Not for me to say.