Palin's Daughter Pregnant

[tfox_60]

Quote by: Thanatos No you clearly did not. You'd have found the much better criticism of one of the articles .

Ive not criticized the articles. I criticized your inability to comprehend what they say. Still waiting for ANY evidence that teen pregnancies are "vastly reduced by education."

[Matt W]

Once more. Let's drop the personal stuff here and move on, please.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[Kate2008]

When I was here a few years ago, "Sean" was posting a lot. I think he started Volconvo. Where'd he go?

***

I saw another image, yesterday, when I found the spoof on Juno. It was an image of Sarah Palin in a red/white/blue bikini, holding a rifle. I've not been able to find it back. Wonder if it has been removed from the internet, and then, if that's possible.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: minorwork I can imagine Bristol not being told about other than abstinence. Does Sarah have no confidence in her daughter's ability to make intelligent choices for herself? Why not inform about contraceptives? Talk about willful ignorance.

Although I have no way of knowing, I suspect not. The more Religious Right people seem to be, the more children are treated as chattel. I've heard it argued; amongst the most extreme, that the state has no right to regulate excessive, very violent, abuse of children that possibly ends up in death. As I typed: the most extreme. I suspect Palin edges towards that end.

I went through sex ed in high school. Abstinence was mentioned many times as often being the best option. There was no promoting of other options: each one was covered, explaining how it worked and how well it worked according to stats: health concerns and problems with each option mentioned many times. Rather clinical. Quite a few took the optional class thinking it would be a turn on and left. I took it to heart and every girlfriend I had would wind up, with me, on a visit to the birth control clinic... hence, no kids. They told me they rarely got to see the boy involved.

Abstinence only, IMO, only promotes irresponsibility. Teen sex is as old as, well, sex itself. Good sex ed, and I am in no way claiming all efforts are "good" like mine was, works. Palin's daughter proves ignorance based "ed..." if one dares call it "ed," is a failure.

The problem is they don't see it that way. Knowledge is the fruit that leads to temptation. (Sidebar: I don't recall God telling Adam and Eve exactly what will happen if they eat the apple... just "No, you shall not eat from..." leading to what any fool could have predicted. So, we are to believe their own version of "history," the behavior of abstinence only infected children proved the approach to be a failed option for a damn long time.)

Truth is: her daughter was out of control, probably was refused the knowledge she needed, or told that was all evil and the work of Satan and abstinence was the only option, and Palin's parental irresponsibility due to her beliefs led to... well, we all know what it led to. Now they're left dealing with something that never needed to happen in the first place and claiming that's being "responsible." It proves the exact opposite.

Kind of like the Bush administration.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: minorwork Teen pregnancy is natural. So why the stigma? How old was Jesus' mother?

Probably quite young. Although at first glance I don't remember the Gospels mentioning this, it is a fact that early mariage... somewhere around 12 or so... was considered the norm. If you weren't married by then you could become an outcast, or considered a whore, or...

Always has made me wonder, if we are to believe the most common take on Jesus, how he got away with collecting so many followers, disciples... etc. There was a stigma: a strong one, to not being married. This either says a lot about his powers: his ministry, his preaching, his ability to convince... or that we really don't know even close to the whole story. I suspect: both.

[barts]

Quote by: thebuescherman When a conservatively-raised girl becomes pregnant, it is a symbol of hypocrisy and poor raising of the child?

Perhaps my memory is faulty or selective, but it seems to me that conservatives generally blame problems with children or teenagers on bad parenting. Particularly, bad "liberal" parents.

If conservatives are right about parenting (are they, I ask?) then Bristol's unwanted pregnancy must be a product of bad parenting. Either that or what they've been saying about bad parenting is no longer true. Which is it, conservatives? Or is it just Sarah Palin who is a good parent with a kid who made a mistake?

This all assumes, of course, that teenage pregnancy is still considered by conservatives to be a problem. Given their response to Bristol's pregnancy, I'm no longer sure that that particular "family value" is still embraced.

[thebuescherman]

Quote by: barts Perhaps my memory is faulty or selective, but it seems to me that conservatives generally blame problems with children or teenagers on bad parenting. Particularly, bad "liberal" parents. If conservatives are right about parenting (are they, I ask?) then Bristol's unwanted pregnancy must be a product of bad parenting. Either that or what they've been saying about bad parenting is no longer true. Which is it, conservatives? Or is it just Sarah Palin who is a good parent with a kid who made a mistake? This all assumes, of course, that teenage pregnancy is still considered by conservatives to be a problem. Given their response to Bristol's pregnancy, I'm no longer sure that that particular "family value" is still embraced.

That's a very naive way of looking at things. First of all, most conservatives don't raise their children in this fantasy-land portrait that you have envisioned. I know of no one, and I grew up in a very conservative town, that was abstinence-only educated. From my own personal experience, this leads me to believe you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps an overly religious family would teach their children in such a manner, but those families are few and far between. Secondly, it doesn't matter how well a child is parented, the kid will make the mistake. For the record, I don't agree with abstinence-only education. I would prefer to see comprehensive education. However, I wouldn't expect much improvement in the number of teen pregnancies.

[barts]

Quote by: thebuescherman That's a very naive way of looking at things. First of all, most conservatives don't raise their children in this fantasy-land portrait that you have envisioned. I know of no one, and I grew up in a very conservative town, that was abstinence-only educated. From my own personal experience, this leads me to believe you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps an overly religious family would teach their children in such a manner, but those families are few and far between. Secondly, it doesn't matter how well a child is parented, the kid will make the mistake. For the record, I don't agree with abstinence-only education. I would prefer to see comprehensive education. However, I wouldn't expect much improvement in the number of teen pregnancies.

Although you quoted a post of mine above this response, I'm not sure you were, in fact, responding to my post. There's no relevance in your comments to what I wrote. Which post were you, in fact, responding to? I wrote "Perhaps my memory is faulty or selective, but it seems to me that conservatives generally blame problems with children or teenagers on bad parenting. Particularly, bad "liberal" parents." Is this not true? Here are some selected quotes from a biased source to make my point.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: thebuescherman That's a very naive way of looking at things. First of all, most conservatives don't raise their children in this fantasy-land portrait that you have envisioned. I know of no one, and I grew up in a very conservative town, that was abstinence-only educated. From my own personal experience, this leads me to believe you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps an overly religious family would teach their children in such a manner, but those families are few and far between. Secondly, it doesn't matter how well a child is parented, the kid will make the mistake. For the record, I don't agree with abstinence-only education. I would prefer to see comprehensive education. However, I wouldn't expect much improvement in the number of teen pregnancies.

I have known many, but not from the "traditional" Conservative stock I came from in the 60s. In a sense you're right: it's the very religiously Right-based ones... but I think you severely under-estimate their influence and power over the movement as a whole: and the education of children.

Of course kids will make mistakes, but ignorance won't help. I think few if any need much more than I mentioned I had back in the 60s. I'm guessing that your own "comprehensive" stand comes, in part, from my first statement in this para.

[thebuescherman]

To barts: You mention "conservative parenting" as if you know something about it. But from what I've seen, you don't understand it. Hence, my post.

Sometimes, bad parenting is the reasoning behind teenagers problems. Of that there is no doubt. But most of the time, it is simply of a matter of the teenager being that, a teenager. I'm not sure where people get the notion that a conservative child is supposed to be without mistake, and should one occur, it is a failure of parenting.

[thebuescherman]

Quote by: Ken Carman In a sense you're right: it's the very religiously Right-based ones... but I think you severely under-estimate their influence and power over the movement as a whole: and the education of children.

Undeniably, they have great influence. The ultra-religious right have been so vocal that they have brainwashed the people of America into not understanding what a typical conservative family is like. Really, I don't think there is too much of a difference between a standard conservative and liberal family.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: barts I wrote "Perhaps my memory is faulty or selective, but it seems to me that conservatives generally blame problems with children or teenagers on bad parenting. Particularly, bad "liberal" parents." Is this not true?

I would have to say a resound "yes" to that statement. Unfortunately this is where this style of politics leads us now that Liberals seem to be firing back. But bad parenting comes a little less from some political skew than it does a lack of common sense, understanding and when rigid thinking wins over all I've just mentioned to the detriment of the child. I've seen it amongst Liberals too.

Once I taught UU; a mostly Liberal faith, Sunday School for teens, some of whom had severe drug problems and were refusing to come back because they could care less about UU history... the usual fare for that age, and wanted a program that addressed their needs and concerns: especially talking about drug problem. I designed one. It worked. I was rewarded with "No, you can't talk about that. Nothing but UU history. Just tell them drugs are bad."

I refused.

I taught for two years before I got tired of all the nonsense.

[minorwork]

Jocelyn Elders was fired as Surgeon General a week after the 1994 United Nations conference on AIDS. She backed a number of sensible, but controversial positions. A possible legalization of drugs and school distribution of contraceptives brought a lot of criticism, but Bill Clinton supported her saying she was misunderstood. Even if Bill believed in these measures his political mind was on alert. At the UN conference she put that last straw on the camel's back. She was asked whether it would be appropriate to promote masturbation as a means of preventing young people from engaging in riskier forms of sexual activity, and she replied, "I think that it is part of human sexuality, and perhaps it should be taught."

I've met a lot of liars. The two biggest whoppers.
I've never masturbated. I've quit.

Norm Macdonald on the Tonight Show told the following joke.

Have you ever read the Bible? That is one racy book. Consider the man Onan. He invented masturbation. Invented it. Why, can you imagine the royalties that man has made? Gee. I bet I, alone, have put his kids thru college.

[Ken Carman]

"Have you ever read the Bible? That is one racy book. Consider the man Onan. He invented masturbation. Invented it. Why, can you imagine the royalties that man has made? Gee. I bet I, alone, have put his kids thru college."

Onan.. doesn't he build and sell generators now????

Yeah but the clean up costs probably would cut back the riches. Otherwise we'd be swimming in thousands upon thousands of years of sticky jizm. Yuck.

[minorwork]

Quote by: Ken Carman Onan.. doesn't he build and sell generators now???? Yeah but the clean up costs probably would cut back the riches. Otherwise we'd be swimming in thousands upon thousands of years of sticky jizm. Yuck.

Burt Rutan designed a very efficient single seater homebuilt aircraft powered by a 2 cylinder Onan engine. The Quickie. I'll go to my room now.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I'm just amazed that a teenager needs to be told to wrap their tool, I mean, it's such a part of popular culture, you wouldn't think you'd need an old guy who probably hasnt had sex in 30 years telling you that you can get pregnant if you don't use contraception.

[minorwork]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I'm just amazed that a teenager needs to be told to wrap their tool, I mean, it's such a part of popular culture, you wouldn't think you'd need an old guy who probably hasnt had sex in 30 years telling you that you can get pregnant if you don't use contraception.

I know what you mean. Maybe it's nature's way of showing who's boss. No matter the theory of human nature invented by man in his attempts to regulate procreation, it is nature, excuse me, love that will be expressed.

God says to Adam, "I have some good news and some bad news. What do you want to hear first?"
Adam says, "Tell me the good news first."
God says, "I'm going to give you a penis and a brain. You'll derive from these great pleasure and great intellect."
Adam replies, "Wonderful! But what's the bad news?"
God says, "I'm only going to give you enough blood supply to work one at a time."

[barts]

Quote by: thebuescherman I'm not sure where people get the notion that a conservative child is supposed to be without mistake, and should one occur, it is a failure of parenting.

Where do we get the notion? Let me think. Here it comes! Ah! Yes! From holier than thou conservatives who feel free to criticize and condemn others.

It's not that conservatives and evangelical Christians like Sarah Palin are no better at parenting than non-conservatives, (in fact, they're probably worse), it's the hypocrisy. Liberals for all their faults (not that I can actually think of any) are just much more tolerant of human failings than conservatives. That is, of course, until one of their tribe is shown to be (here comes the shocker) human.

[Nono]

Quote by: works Burt Rutan designed a very efficient single seater homebuilt aircraft powered by a 2 cylinder Onan engine.

Two-stroke?
Anyway, mine's turbine-powered.

[Nono]

Quote by: barts It's the hypocrisy.

'Tis in spades. But you can't reach hypocrites. They obsessively remember Bill Clinton, and instantly forget Jimmy Swaggart.
The only thing that counts is what fits into their worldview.