Characteristics of a Police/Security State

[Comrade]

If they are trafficking drugs, they need to be punished, but I really think they should DO something in prison besides sit around and watch TV and suck up our tax dollars. Prisons could at least TRY to pay for themselves by making the inmates productive. Instead, prisoners are being paid to make license plates while we pay for their food and housing.

[Young]

Agree....and it's High time we do something about it.

[giuliano]

i say give them a choice between education and labour.

educating a con is a great way to ensure they don't get out and start re-offending, which IS the most important role of prisons. it's not, as many conservatives seem to belive, for us to feel good about the fact we're on the outside.

[gr8fuldaniel]

EDIT to add: I dont remember where I grabbed this banner, so, no source for these facts. Sorry.

[Compugasm]

Two police state items:

Red light cameras: The fine for running a redlight is $341.00 "Escondido's new red light cameras are operated under a five-year contract with Redflex Traffic Systems Inc. The Australia-based company .... will receive a flat $89 fee for each ticket written." A private company receives a comission on every ticket, no officer involved.. interesting. They have quite an ambitious expansion program planned as well. The busiest intersections in the city. Running a red light is dangerous, but if nothing happens, your fined $341 for no incident?

Depending on the California county your in, seatbelt fines are $79.00 and $89.00 and higher for subsequent infraction. You also receive points on your license. Possibly cause an increase in your insurance premium. I see the point of making people wear the belts, but being forced into paying for a non-crime makes me mad.

[Section 8]

On the business it's purely hypocritical to have a fierce War on Drugs, while simaltaneously supporting the biggest cocaine trafficking network in the entire world. (The CIA) When a government agency is allowed to commit murder and larceny just to fund illegal wars and coups in South America, the time has come to take a stand.

[bishop]

With citizens like this, no wonder Bush thinks he can get away with anything he wants to do.

and notice the absent rebuttal to your comments about padilla. gotta change the station when things get tough.

[Zeebadee]

Wow, you went back a long way for that old post!

It sickens me to see what has happened here in this country. When the citizens demand that the rights of the state outweigh the rights of the individual, the end is near.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, There is some doubt as to what exactly constitutes a "Police State." There are classic examples: Nazi Germany, the communist regimes of Eastern Europe in the Cold War. The USSR. The PRC under Mao. Haiti under Papa Doc. And many others, I am sure. I hope I didn't leave out your favorite. If I did, please post it with the reasoning of why it was or is a Police State. The paranoid among us(I am one ) sense that a Police State is possibly an imminent threat in America. If you think that this is likely, please say why. Same token, you who think the chance is remote that America could shift into the Police State mode: say why. What are the characteristics that identify a Police/Security State? How does a Police State work? What are the strengths and weaknesses? What could bring about the demise of a Police State?

Nice pack and comparison. No doubt.
To complete your requirements for a "perfect police state", people should :
- go for additional classes and learn German, Russian and Chinese languages
- undergo plastic surgeries (eyes, skin, hair, ect.)
- get some uniforms (not to differ from, while Mao-alike clothings may be a new hit on a market :-))) )

I do not know whether your licence for "free-lance survey" has been revoked or is pending a validation procedure. If you need a supportive material in matter called "a perfect police state" , this Forum may not appear the most and best suitable place to get it from.

The most important things that the overwhelming majority of poeple are after :
- food
- money
Are you lacking these ones ? or having "shortages" ? :-)))

[Zeebadee]

Could someone please explain exactly what the preceding post is supposed to mean?? Thanks!

[PatrickHenry]

Zee, I have had a hard time figuring Rainbow, too. I find it easier to argue if I kinda know what the member stands for and the general thrust of the post. Even my bitterest opponents are cool to argue with because at least their posts make sense.

Rainbow, have you been smokin' something?

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, Rainbow, have you been smokin' something?

Cigarettes, only :-)))

Your originally posted thread, does not include any arguments to support your "thesis". Since you submit less-valid material, I concentrate on less-important part of your "thesis" as well, to match you arguments :-)))

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Zeebadee, Could someone please explain exactly what the preceding post is supposed to mean?? Thanks!

Here, it is the "explanation" :
- new set of crayons is on its way to you.
S&H is free. Enjoy it :-)

P.S.
If you do not understand the "message", then ask or request an additional data, instead of posting *** in "amazement".

[Compugasm]

Hey Rainbow! Shaka, when the walls fell.

[gr8fuldaniel]

I had trouble finding the ignore button, but Im back now.
Does anyone remember the reason Jeb Bush declared marshall law the 1st week of Sept. 2001? It was before 911. Just curious, if it was prior knowledge or a hurricane. I just found some new dirt on Florida election fraud perpetrated THIS WEEK.
A police state has no use for fair elections. The sheeple will not tell the Nazis who will rule over them.

Greg Palast On Friday, Theresa LePore, Supervisor of Elections in Palm Beach, candidate for re-election as Supervisor of Elections, chose to supervise her own election, no one allowed. This Tuesday, Florida votes for these nominally non-partisan posts. You remember Theresa, "Madame Butterfly," the one whose ballots brought in the big vote for Pat Buchanan in the Jewish precincts in November 2000. Then she failed to do the hand count that would have changed the White House from Red to Blue. This time, Theresa's in a hurry to get to the counting. She began tallying absentee ballots on Friday in her own re-election race. Not to worry: the law requires the Supervisor of Elections in each county to certify poll-watchers to observe the count. But Theresa has a better idea. She refused to certify a single poll-watcher from opponents' organizations despite the legal requirement she do so by last week. She'll count her own votes herself, thank you very much! And so far, she's doing quite well. Although 37,000 citizens have requested absentee ballots, she says she'd only received 22,000 when she began the count. Where are the others? Don't ask: though she posts the names of requesters, she won't release the list of those who have voted, an eyebrow-raising deviation from standard procedure. And she has no intention of counting all the ballots received. She has reserved for herself the right to determine which ballots have acceptable signatures. Her opponent, Democrat Art Anderson, had asked Theresa to use certified hand-writing experts, instead of her hand-picked hacks, to check the signatures. Unfortunately, while Federal law requires Theresa to allow a voter to correct a signature rejection when registering, the Feds don't require her to permit challenges to absentee ballot rejections. [SIZE=3] I know what you're thinking. How could Madame Butterfly know how people are voting? Well, she's printed PARTY AFFILIATION on the OUTSIDE of each return envelope. That certainly makes it easier to figure out which ballot is valid, don't it?[/SIZE]

More...

God its hard to love everyone when there are slimeballs like this in the world.

[PatrickHenry]

Rigged voting is a police state characteristic?

Election fraud? In Florida? It couldn't be...

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Patrick, Rigged voting is a police state characteristic?

The most devious kind. If they were to declare an outright 4th Reich Police State, the people may revolt, this sneaky, culvert police state tactic of controlling election outcomes has the same effect of not holding elections, yet keeping the sheeple docile.

Only problem is, Madam Butterflys term doesnt end til AFTER Nov 2. Beee-otch.

A little morsel, on Jebs Police State

WorldNetDaily YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE … Florida under martial law? Rumors persist despite official denial from Jeb Bush administration ------------------------------------------------------------------ By Sarah Foster © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com WHO KNEW? Jeb Bush signed Florida TWO YEAR emergency order 4 days BEFORE ATTACK Those words, as frightening as they are shocking, headlined one of several Internet articles that appeared in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks upon the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Published Sept. 24 on PsyOpNews, the article unequivocally proclaimed: "Seems like everybody and his uncle knew about this attack in advance. Inside traders and governments and even good ol' Jeb Bush. He took over Florida four days before the attack. Bye, bye Florida. Hello, General Jeb." Then challenged, "Now, how many states does that leave us in the Union?" In a similar vein, Jeff Rense on Sept. 23 ran a piece on his website, www.rense.com, headed "Jeb Declared Martial Law In FL On 9-7." Two days earlier, at Lawgiver.org readers were provided with details about "Martial Law in Florida." "In case you haven't figured it out, Florida is under martial law and will remain so until this EO (executive order) is revoked," the author stated bluntly. The articles sparked a flurry of e-mails to WorldNetDaily. Did we know that the governor "immediately" after the Trade Center's second tower fell had issued an executive order, with no termination date, declaring a state of emergency? Did we know that the governor had made the interim head of the Division of Emergency Management into a czar of anti-terrorist operations, giving him the power to seize land and personal property and order people evacuated from their homes? Were we aware that Bush had mobilized the National Guard just four days earlier?

[PatrickHenry]

From your source, Dan:

Robert Higgs – author of the classic 1987 study, "Crisis and Leviathan: Episodes in the Growth of American Government," and a senior fellow of the Independent Institute, a non-profit, public-policy research organization in Oakland, Calif. – has spent years analyzing the conditions and circumstances that prompt sharp expansions in government power at the expense of the rights of citizens. Higgs has shown that it is at times of crisis, such as war, an economic collapse or other turmoil, that government powers increase exponentially – "ratcheted" is the term he uses. But when the crisis is passed, while there is some "ratcheting down," conditions never return to the point they were before the crisis; there is always less freedom than formerly. Did Higgs see any problems or possible threats to liberty in Florida or elsewhere through the kind of declaration of a state of emergency issued by Bush? "That would depend entirely on the circumstances under which it was issued," he answered. "As you've discovered, some of these governors' orders are fairly routine. They are usually issued in the event of a catastrophe, a natural disaster of some kind. In those cases, it is a way of triggering some additional state resources and also of creating conditions through which a state can request federal assistance, things of that sort. "I don't think there's anything grave about the normal way in which state governors exercise those powers," he explained. "But in conditions such as those that exist at the moment, they could be grave because we're not dealing with a natural catastrophe but with a threat from abroad that has got in among us, which is the ideal condition for frightening the people. [It is] also potentially a condition in which a state government or the national government might take extraordinary measures that would be very damaging to our liberties. "So I think the present circumstances are potentially more a cause for concern than we are accustomed to," he said. [SIZE=2]Americans, he said, should be "very much concerned" about a potential loss of liberty at this time,[/SIZE] because "as a general proposition, given what has happened historically, these kinds of emergencies have been the occasion for all sorts of mischief, and we would be well-advised to watch what the government does at every level – local and state, as well as federal. "It's much more dangerous when extraordinary powers are exercised at the federal level, but that doesn't mean the state powers are harmless," Higgs said. [SIZE=2]"Any time executive officers exercise extraordinary police powers there is reason to be concerned. It means that we don't have the ordinary checks and balances, we don't have the usual procedures for the government to exercise its powers or the usual protections.[/SIZE] "It's a time to watch out," he warned.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel, A police state exists when federal and state police mechanisms: 1) Serve the central government instead of serving the citizens 2) Enforce the policies of the central government instead of responding primarily to criminal misdeeds 3) Spy on and intimidate citizens

#1
A syllogism.
"Police" as well as "Army" and "Intelligence" are FUNDAMENTS for a particular country existance (!) Otherwise, a country no longer exists.

Since people - under a democratic state's rules - have elected a government, then that government represents those people.

#2
It sounds like a populistic slogan or a claptrap.
What does it mean ? Can you be a little more specific ?

#3
That part of "Police" and (espacially) "Intelligence" tasks is :
- to control citizens
A "spying on its citizens" is a part of that "assigment". That is exactly where the information is coming from.
Otherwise violence spreads around; majority of crimes are not solved; criminals go free; spies from all over the world rule in that country and as the final result the "anarchy" will fluorish in its full extent.

Generally, what "Police" does and what it should do, that is yet another matter.
People should create political and administrative mechanisms (bodies) to control "Police".
Complaints ? To those who vote. They have elected people who SHOULD serve all the citizens. It seems that voters - except voting - do not much in that matter.

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Compugasm, Hey Rainbow! Shaka, when the walls fell.

"Shaka" ? What do you refer to ?