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Comrade · Aug 2, 2004, 01:59 am

http://www.drudgereport.com/rnc.htm

Anyone got any more info on this?

Quote:

The Speaker of the House will push for replacing the nation's current tax system with a national sales tax or a value added tax, Hill sources tell DRUDGE

If this is true, will libertarians be happy?

Technosoul · Aug 2, 2004, 04:15 am

Nope. The rich folks already have all their stuff and would not need to buy more things. But us po folks still need to buy more things and would thus be paying more taxes.

It is just not fair.

Anyway you can buy on-line and avoid sales taxes for many items. So the governement would be broke unless they found a way to tax all on-line buyers - and what would that mean for us? Some of us want cyberspace to remain a "free zone". (no-man's land).

And would the fat cats at the international banking system float loans to the government to print more money or to cover budget shortages if they lost all control (the IRS) to collect on those loans?

If sales taxes were put into effect as the main source for federal government in-come, they would start to pick on the things you must have everyday, food taxes, gas taxes, and so forth which would make the cost of living more difficult for low wage earners.

Back to taxing on-line shoppers. You might have to get a special card to shop on line, and pay a governmental fee to get the card, and with the card they would keep track of everything you buy at e-bay or other webpages. What about keeping private what you buy and use in your personal life?

Revelations (biblical) "and none will be able to buy or sell without bowing down to the (2nd) Beast". The biblical Beast is the Tax System of governments. (tossing in a little religion to sway opinions).

Stuff to think about - Technosoul.

Suburbanite · Aug 2, 2004, 04:20 am

rich people have everything they are going to buy? hahaha

Compugasm · Aug 2, 2004, 04:36 am

No IRS, the Governator dramatically slashing the government... It all sounds great to me.

waterfalllife · Aug 2, 2004, 08:16 am

Wow, very interesting read. And I hope it goes through. But they would have to define what is taxable and what is not (e.g. food, essentials etc.)

prettyredhead · Aug 2, 2004, 02:42 pm

We need the IRS to ensure everyone is fed. This will never happen. No way in hell.
Do you think people will willingly give up their money to the govt. for the "greater good".
Think again. Most will be living in a tent in 20 years.

Technosoul · Aug 2, 2004, 03:08 pm

Sub-nite. Okay, I will admit that might have been a bit overstated on my part, and I guess a rich guys toaster could burn out and they would need to buy a new one, or someone might invent a new gadget to play music, and they would want it. But for the most part the economic engine is the young people who are just getting started in life with new apartments, or having just got married, and so forth. Not the rich old retired folks who no longer have any more room for more stuff. My point is that people just getting their footing on the ladders of success are the ones who spend the most money (excluding teenagers with rich parents) because they (the poor who just landed a job, and the kids just out of highschool or collage and are starting new jobs) would end up paying more taxes because they need more stuff then the rich people need.

Compu...

The IRS is really not a governmental department, did you not know the IRS is a private company that works for the banks to collect debts? Although the IRS as a private industry does have a lot of legal backing from governmental laws and so their authority remains unquestioned by most people in the public sector. PS - are you watching too many Teminator movies?

Waterfalllife - thanks for your opinions and in-put.

Prettyredhead - I would agree with any pretty redhead. Did you hear about the new "tent tax"?

Technosoul.

Compugasm · Aug 3, 2004, 05:19 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Technosoul,
It is just not fair.

In other words, the government can't use the tax code to redistribute taxes. It doesn't sound fair to me that rich people do pay more money in taxes, but through loopholes, shady accountants, etc... get out of paying the "fair share". Rich people buy all kinds of dumb crap the rest of us could only stare at in the glossy catalogs.

Young · Aug 3, 2004, 05:30 am

Robb report

Ideas on future purchases for millionaires.

Compugasm · Aug 3, 2004, 05:30 am

There is no way I'd vote for Kerry, however if this was his idea I'd vote for him. I wonder how this will effect people who live on border states. You know, like crossing a state line to buy cigarettes and such?

Young · Aug 3, 2004, 05:40 am

Here in NC, if your pulled over and the cop finds a SC,GA,TN, or VA lottery ticket in your car...its a $75 fine, but most of us go to SC & GA if the lotto jumps over 100 million and while your in SC....gas is $1.64 whereas in NC its $1.87. So on a 10 gallon purchase you save $2.30...which gets you 2 lotto tickets.

Technosoul · Aug 3, 2004, 07:28 am

Lotto tickets.... and, er, what were we debating about?

Compugasm · Aug 3, 2004, 07:45 am

The fact that taxes are being, or not being, collected/distributed fairly. So, remove the IRS. It eliminates tax loopholes for rich, and dangling carrots in front of the poor.

It's a solution not without wrinkles. Some things will cost more, but others will cost less. But what, and how much I have no idea. Example, $1000 bottles of wine might go up, but apples might go down. So, in that sense it's like a tax hike for one group, and a credit for another. I don't know this effects imports (my example items are often imported).

So, the government will still be able to "control you" through consumption taxes (the stuff you buy). But it will make everyones life easier. You don't have to save receipts, try to get deductions, claim dependants, hide your money, fill out mounds of forms, and then pay to have your taxes done. The tax has already been paid.

I'm not an expert on it. I heard, accountants will not be jobless. They've got plenty to do. I don't know how it effects non-profit orgs, Osborne Enready probably has more source info than you could shake a stick at. All I can say is it sounds promising assuming every special interest group won't screw it up.

Liberty Landing · Aug 3, 2004, 08:23 am

Quote:

Originally posted by prettyredhead,
We need the IRS to ensure everyone is fed.

Yeah, food, bed, books, free healthcare. All the things you get when you go to prison without a fair trial for committing minor clerical errors on your tax form.

Samildanach · Aug 3, 2004, 08:25 am

The idea has been round for years and years. A national tax on all goods and services is a very fair kind of tax IMO. If you are poor for example, you are buying less of everything. If you are rich you are buying more. It works out that the rich pay more but they also have the option not to pay if they choose not to, which they won't because they are used to and can afford more luxuries.
Everytime I have seen this idea come up though it has been squashed by the rich who control the govt because they pay next to no tax at the moment so why would they want to change the system.

Comrade · Aug 3, 2004, 10:04 am

http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

This is a good write-up on the whole idea.

(it will only be on the front page for Tuesday, August 3, 2004)

Jeff · Aug 3, 2004, 02:07 pm

There are two main obstacles to this idea. It would add greatly to the unemployment. Eliminating the IRS and other jobs that are in the tax business would not be a popular idea. Second issue is the countless lobbyists that have created our 60,000 page tax code. Do you think that the Democrats will support the elimination of earned income credits or child tax credits? Charities and mortgage companies get special deductions. Businesses will not support the loss of available business tax credits. Many other special interests would loose their special treatment.

This is an idea much like the flat tax that has been around for many years. There are too many groups to appease to make this a reality. Does anyone think that this might be political reason for bringing this old idea up now?

Compugasm · Aug 3, 2004, 07:16 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jeff,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Eliminating the IRS and other jobs that are in the tax business would not be a popular idea.[/b]

I'm not entirely sure what this means for these occupations yet. I don't think they'll be jobless because then they'd only be employed from January, to April 15th and that isn't the case. I'm guessing it will make their life easier because there will be no "tax season".

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jeff,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Do you think that the Democrats will support the elimination of earned income credits or child tax credits?[/b]

They'll be getting the equal amount of that disbursed thoughout the year, and not after April 15th in one lump sum.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff,
countless lobbyists that have created our 60,000 page tax code.
... Many other special interests would loose their special treatment.

And it's about time. I thought this was the major complaint, that these groups are buying off politicians and such? All the complaints that these rich businesses steal from the workin man? Do you think it will make joining the globabl community easier with a 60K page tax code?

<!--QuoteBegin-Jeff,@
This is an idea much like the flat tax that has been around for many years.[/quote]
Yeah, I heard the difference was, the flat tax allows for continued shady dealings with deductions though. That's why they're considering other systems like the VAT.

<!--QuoteBegin-Jeff,
Does anyone think that this might be political reason for bringing this old idea up now?[/quote]
Yes, and it's too bad Kerry didn't propose it.

Dieval · Aug 3, 2004, 07:20 pm

This sounds like it could be a pretty good idea....count me in.

Technosoul · Aug 4, 2004, 01:52 am

Okay, but will they really eleminate how much money they get from you - one way or another? Chop off the Dragons head and he grows more out of this tail, it seems. Goodbye IRS and hello some other tax collection under a new name.

But at least you guys came up with some good alternatives of the IRS, and we are tired of that system of red tape that only experts pretend to even comprehend.

Technosoul.

Aug 2, 2004, 04:36 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Compugasm Son of X51 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,718	No IRS, the Governator dramatically slashing the government... It all sounds great to me. I'd like to thank Charlie Hodge, bringing me scarves and water.

Aug 2, 2004, 08:16 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
waterfalllife Molten Ash Posts: 143	Wow, very interesting read. And I hope it goes through. But they would have to define what is taxable and what is not (e.g. food, essentials etc.) "The reason we can't find a relationship between the Constitution and the government is that there is none." -Michael Badnarik

Aug 3, 2004, 05:30 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Young Hot Lava Location: western NC Posts: 1,088	Robb report Ideas on future purchases for millionaires. Young I guess all we've got Left......are these darned "Internets"

Aug 3, 2004, 05:30 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Compugasm Son of X51 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,718	There is no way I'd vote for Kerry, however if this was his idea I'd vote for him. I wonder how this will effect people who live on border states. You know, like crossing a state line to buy cigarettes and such? I'd like to thank Charlie Hodge, bringing me scarves and water.

Aug 3, 2004, 05:40 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Young Hot Lava Location: western NC Posts: 1,088	Here in NC, if your pulled over and the cop finds a SC,GA,TN, or VA lottery ticket in your car...its a $75 fine, but most of us go to SC & GA if the lotto jumps over 100 million and while your in SC....gas is $1.64 whereas in NC its $1.87. So on a 10 gallon purchase you save $2.30...which gets you 2 lotto tickets. Young I guess all we've got Left......are these darned "Internets"

Aug 2, 2004, 04:15 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Nope. The rich folks already have all their stuff and would not need to buy more things. But us po folks still need to buy more things and would thus be paying more taxes. It is just not fair. Anyway you can buy on-line and avoid sales taxes for many items. So the governement would be broke unless they found a way to tax all on-line buyers - and what would that mean for us? Some of us want cyberspace to remain a "free zone". (no-man's land). And would the fat cats at the international banking system float loans to the government to print more money or to cover budget shortages if they lost all control (the IRS) to collect on those loans? If sales taxes were put into effect as the main source for federal government in-come, they would start to pick on the things you must have everyday, food taxes, gas taxes, and so forth which would make the cost of living more difficult for low wage earners. Back to taxing on-line shoppers. You might have to get a special card to shop on line, and pay a governmental fee to get the card, and with the card they would keep track of everything you buy at e-bay or other webpages. What about keeping private what you buy and use in your personal life? Revelations (biblical) "and none will be able to buy or sell without bowing down to the (2nd) Beast". The biblical Beast is the Tax System of governments. (tossing in a little religion to sway opinions). Stuff to think about - Technosoul.

Aug 2, 2004, 04:20 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	rich people have everything they are going to buy? hahaha

Aug 2, 2004, 02:42 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
prettyredhead Igneous Magma Posts: 336	We need the IRS to ensure everyone is fed. This will never happen. No way in hell. Do you think people will willingly give up their money to the govt. for the "greater good". Think again. Most will be living in a tent in 20 years.

Aug 2, 2004, 03:08 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Sub-nite. Okay, I will admit that might have been a bit overstated on my part, and I guess a rich guys toaster could burn out and they would need to buy a new one, or someone might invent a new gadget to play music, and they would want it. But for the most part the economic engine is the young people who are just getting started in life with new apartments, or having just got married, and so forth. Not the rich old retired folks who no longer have any more room for more stuff. My point is that people just getting their footing on the ladders of success are the ones who spend the most money (excluding teenagers with rich parents) because they (the poor who just landed a job, and the kids just out of highschool or collage and are starting new jobs) would end up paying more taxes because they need more stuff then the rich people need. Compu... The IRS is really not a governmental department, did you not know the IRS is a private company that works for the banks to collect debts? Although the IRS as a private industry does have a lot of legal backing from governmental laws and so their authority remains unquestioned by most people in the public sector. PS - are you watching too many Teminator movies? Waterfalllife - thanks for your opinions and in-put. Prettyredhead - I would agree with any pretty redhead. Did you hear about the new "tent tax"? Technosoul.

Aug 3, 2004, 07:28 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Lotto tickets.... and, er, what were we debating about?

Aug 3, 2004, 07:45 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Compugasm Son of X51 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,718	The fact that taxes are being, or not being, collected/distributed fairly. So, remove the IRS. It eliminates tax loopholes for rich, and dangling carrots in front of the poor. It's a solution not without wrinkles. Some things will cost more, but others will cost less. But what, and how much I have no idea. Example, $1000 bottles of wine might go up, but apples might go down. So, in that sense it's like a tax hike for one group, and a credit for another. I don't know this effects imports (my example items are often imported). So, the government will still be able to "control you" through consumption taxes (the stuff you buy). But it will make everyones life easier. You don't have to save receipts, try to get deductions, claim dependants, hide your money, fill out mounds of forms, and then pay to have your taxes done. The tax has already been paid. I'm not an expert on it. I heard, accountants will not be jobless. They've got plenty to do. I don't know how it effects non-profit orgs, Osborne Enready probably has more source info than you could shake a stick at. All I can say is it sounds promising assuming every special interest group won't screw it up. I'd like to thank Charlie Hodge, bringing me scarves and water.

Aug 3, 2004, 08:25 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	The idea has been round for years and years. A national tax on all goods and services is a very fair kind of tax IMO. If you are poor for example, you are buying less of everything. If you are rich you are buying more. It works out that the rich pay more but they also have the option not to pay if they choose not to, which they won't because they are used to and can afford more luxuries. Everytime I have seen this idea come up though it has been squashed by the rich who control the govt because they pay next to no tax at the moment so why would they want to change the system. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Aug 3, 2004, 10:04 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
Comrade Hot Lava Location: Texas Posts: 1,229	http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html This is a good write-up on the whole idea. (it will only be on the front page for Tuesday, August 3, 2004) Oh, it's really too bad, isn't it? -- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050121/480/watw10701210224 Hahaha, that's funny. Liberals are so silly!

Aug 3, 2004, 02:07 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Jeff Molten Ash Location: Texas Posts: 101	There are two main obstacles to this idea. It would add greatly to the unemployment. Eliminating the IRS and other jobs that are in the tax business would not be a popular idea. Second issue is the countless lobbyists that have created our 60,000 page tax code. Do you think that the Democrats will support the elimination of earned income credits or child tax credits? Charities and mortgage companies get special deductions. Businesses will not support the loss of available business tax credits. Many other special interests would loose their special treatment. This is an idea much like the flat tax that has been around for many years. There are too many groups to appease to make this a reality. Does anyone think that this might be political reason for bringing this old idea up now?

Aug 3, 2004, 07:20 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Dieval Right of Center Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,759	This sounds like it could be a pretty good idea....count me in. "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

Aug 4, 2004, 01:52 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Okay, but will they really eleminate how much money they get from you - one way or another? Chop off the Dragons head and he grows more out of this tail, it seems. Goodbye IRS and hello some other tax collection under a new name. But at least you guys came up with some good alternatives of the IRS, and we are tired of that system of red tape that only experts pretend to even comprehend. Technosoul.