Georgian army moves to retake South Ossetia

[sturmovic]

Russia militarily invaded a sovereign country and declared Poland to be a target for a nuclear strike..... and it is the west who is going crazy??? What have we done that was "crazy"/

Georgia invaded Ossetia in defiance of an international peace agreement, at the behest of the US.
So far the actions against Georgia seem to be exclusively to prevent th Georgian military to mount a similar assault in the future.

As for Poland being a nuclear target, in the event of war, all US military targets are automatically targets for military action. So what other response did the US expect to establishing a military presence in Poland, which is so clearly aimed at Russia?

The first situation was at least partially engineered by the US, the second completely so. Yes, that is why I call the Westen policy "crazy"

[tfox_60]

,
Preventing Georgian use of the city cut Georgia in half logistically, and ensured the inability of their miltary to try anything funny again.

What they tried to do was stop the South Ossetian militias from attacking the ethnically Georgian villages around Tshinvali. They failed. The militias have driven out the residents and looted then torched their homes. Not sure what you find funny.

[tfox_60]

Georgia invaded Ossetia in defiance of an international peace agreement, at the behest of the US.

Aaaaand then there is the real world

U.S. officials said they warned Saakashvili not to provoke Russia militarily by sending Georgian troops into South Ossetia and they had ruled out any U.S. military action to defend Georgia.

[COLOR=#800080]]http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/13/us.russia.diplomacy/[/COLOR]

[sturmovic]

Ah, I see the area where you knowledge is deficient.

Do you agree that Georgia invaded South Ossetia first, and that the current Russian military presence in Georgia is the result of a counter offensive?
And since such action is prohibited by the 1994 treaty, do you then agree that it is illegal?

Or do you beleive that Russia invaded a chunk of Georgia out of the blue?

[tfox_60]

Ah, I see the area where you knowledge is deficient.

Do you agree that Georgia invaded South Ossetia first, and that the current Russian military presence in Georgia is the result of a counter offensive?
And since such action is prohibited by the 1994 treaty, do you then agree that it is illegal?

Or do you beleive that Russia invaded a chunk of Georgia out of the blue?

Revealing that to support your assertion that my knowledge is deficient, you ask 3 questions. Seems your knowledge is deficient in that you dont seem to be aware that Georgian troops were already in S Ossetia. Georgia has had control of substantial portions of South Ossetia since the 92 conflict. Georgian peacekeepers guard ethnically Georgian areas of S Ossetia, while Russian troops guard ethnically ossetian areas. And while you try to portray Georgia as making some kind of surprise attack on South Ossetia on the 7th of August, in fact the Ossetian government ordered women and children evacuated from Tskhinvali on the 3rd of August, four days prior. So it was no surprise. And you seem to be unaware that S Ossetian militia was attacking Georgian positions in S Ossetia with 120mm shells on August 6th, and had begun their attacks on ethnically Georgian villages surrounding Tskhinvali. 120mm shells were banned by the 94 treaty and had not been used since. Georgia was forced to decide between doing nothing or coming to the aid of their peacekeepers and citizens who were being attacked by both Russian military and Ossetian militias.

[sturmovic]

Georgian peacekeepers were confined to zones of dominant Georgian ethnicity, that is true, and adequate provisions were made for them in the treaty.

However the primary assault was carried out with I think three or four batallions that were forbidden from entering Ossetia under the treaty.

As for the shells and the evacuation, may I have some sources?
I am aware that artillery skirmes were going off non-stop for the past decade, with both sides involved.


But an official evacuation of Tsinhvali is serious stuff, where did you find this out?

[tfox_60]

But an official evacuation of Tsinhvali is serious stuff, where did you find this out?

Cant Find the source I had read earlier, but a quick google found these that make mention

Kokoity has reacted by announcing a major security initiative (a general mobilization on July 4, and the evacuation of women, children, and the elderly from Tskhinvali on August 2),
georgiandaily.com - Georgia, South Ossetia Rule Out Talks On Defusing Rising Tensions

“So back to the 3rd of August. Kokoity announces women and children should leave. As it later turned out, he made all the civilians leave who were not fighting or did not have fighting capabilities. On the same day, irregulars – Ingush, Chechen, Ossetians, and Cossacks – start coming in and spreading out into the countryside but don't do anything. They just sit and wait. On the 6th of August the shelling intensifies from Ossetian positions. And for the first time since the war finished in 1992, they are using 120mm guns.
Michael J. Totten: The Truth About Russia in Georgia

Georgian peacekeepers were confined to zones of dominant Georgian ethnicity, that is true, and adequate provisions were made for them in the treaty.

Not only were the Russian peacekeepers not preventing the S Ossetian militias from attacking Georgians, they were supplying them with arms, training, recruits from other parts of russia and the funding that paid the militias salary. There are numerous reports of looting and arson by south ossetian militias while Russian soldiers stood by and did nothing. Obviously not adequate provisions.

[sturmovic]

Hmmm.
Even with the evacuation, is much changed to my points? I will think but nevertheless the core of my arguments remain unchanged.
Though I admit I am anaware of this, neither Russian nor the major Western sources ever mentioned this.

As for the charges of provocation-is it really realistic that USA would allow its satellite to go into a spontaneous and suicidal war, while its secretary of state was still there?

And holy crap, no wonder your views are what they are when you read this.
Michael J. Totten: The Truth About Russia in Georgia

This is nearly as bad as what that %$^& Bzevsky wrote in the Time.

[sturmovic]

Not only were the Russian peacekeepers not preventing the S Ossetian militias from attacking Georgians, they were supplying them with arms, training, recruits from other parts of russia and the funding that paid the militias salary. There are numerous reports of looting and arson by south ossetian militias while Russian soldiers stood by and did nothing. Obviously not adequate provisions.

I said-I have no illusion on their behalf. Wild, hateful of each other, both sides are equally unpleasant towards each other.
What can I say? Meatshields, keeping the regular army casualties down by literally biting the bullet.

Currenly, all the remaining Georgians are being driven out of Ossetia. Had the Georgians won, it would have been vice versa.
Both the Georgians and the Ossetians are equally disposable pawns used by us and the Gringos.

[Diogenes]

georgiandaily.com - Georgia, South Ossetia Rule Out Talks On Defusing Rising Tensions

Really...a quick whois lookup shows your source to be owned by :
MGL Investment Group, Inc

on GoDaddy...with an inactive webpage:

Page 1

and these are your sources? Really.

[Diogenes]

And while you're at it do a quick lookup of michael totten and see that he's only affiliated with right-wing mags and blogs.

The one reference to any normal media is one article posted in the WSJ's Opinion Journal forum.

With sources like these I could prove that Elvis is still alive.

[tfox_60]

Hmmm.
Even with the evacuation, is much changed to my points?

Sooo your question

But an official evacuation of Tsinhvali is serious stuff, where did you find this out?

was pretty much pointless.