I don't get why McCain is only a few points behind Obama.

**xyzer** · 27th July 2008, 01:09 PM

Getting backs to the wire taps...As usual we are mixing data on wire taps seeking evidence of civil and criminal and domestic law breaking, in with wire taps(electronic surveillance) between known/suspected international terrorists with people in the US? Wire taps for intelligence information in a wartime environment, versus wire taps to gather evidence in domestic legal matters.

The international surveillance(wire taps) which caused the furor, had resulted in no injury to US citizens. Thus when some tried to take the issue to court they were rejected as not having "standing"? By the law you have to be able to show some injury(standing) before you can claim injury in court. Shucks, the antiwar faction were again flailing away at an invented strawman?

Finally Congress passed legislation which alleviated the matter and was more in tune with recent technology plus wartime intelligence gathering techniques. And in spite of Democrat resistance let Telecom Companies off the hook for helping gather intelligence during a national emergerncy.

**xyzer** · 27th July 2008, 01:17 PM

Deadon Deadeye! We have only some one hundred nuke plants which produce 20% of our power needs. Obviously we need another 200 or so to take the pressure off oil use. We also have something like 300 years worth of coal reserves which with clean burning technology would help reduce oil consumption, leaving a greater supply for propulsion.

If we could just get the environmental lobby in line the problem could quite easily be solved! Unfortunately we have a bunch of ancient cretins embedded in our national legislature who feel obligated to the environmental lobby....and refuse to move off "top dead center"?

**Clarence** · 27th July 2008, 01:36 PM

A huge, huge part of America's energy problem is stupidity in one form or another.

strong language but, truth.

**GHook93** · 27th July 2008, 01:44 PM

Quote by: maximdewinter

Vastly less gas?

Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short

"Pete Blackshaw was so excited about getting a hybrid gasoline-electric car that he had his wife videotape the trip to the Honda dealership to pick up his Civic Hybrid. The enthusiastic owner ordered a customized license plate with "MO MILES" on it, and started a blog about his new hybrid lifestyle.
But after a few months of commuting to his job in Cincinnati, Blackshaw's hybrid euphoria vanished as his car's odometer revealed that the gas mileage he was hoping for was only a pipe dream. Honda's Civic Hybrid is rated by the EPA to get 47 miles per gallon in the city, and 48 mpg on the highway. After nearly 1,000 miles of mostly city driving, Blackshaw was getting 31.4 mpg.

Regarding electric cars: Do you understand that you have to plug an electric car into a wall socket? The electricity generated by the powerplant goes through a powergrid, but in the US, 70% of that electricity is produced by fossil fuel.
Electric Power Industry--Chapter 3
Have you also heard about energy loss through transmission lines? Overall efficiency as in fuel burned yielding usable power?

Current electric car capacitor technology has us at 57kWh. (That's 57,000 Watts per hour.) In many places in the US when temperatures get over 90 degrees people plug in their air conditioners using just 1000 watts per hour and we get brown outs. Get real.

No I don't get it. Considering the the huge list of environmentally friendly countries that drill for oil....are they all terrible too? If you have to build roads to the oil wells so be it. But, if you are installing solar plants in remote areas don't you also have build roads to install and service them?

Also if our climate is changing and weather patterns are not the same from one year to another can you explain how it is prudent to install energy producing stations at locations which are dependent on the vagaries of the weather?

Well put! The comeback for liberals on drilling is that instead of drilling or using more nuclear power we need to get cars that don't use gas. Well no sh1t! Conservative and Republicans want that just as much as the liberals, but we don't want to starve in the meantime!

**GHook93** · 27th July 2008, 01:47 PM

Quote by: Thanatos

Maxim, you're a disgrace to Republicans everywhere.

If you drive a Civic correctly you get 56 mpg. Talk all you want but that's how much my dad actually gets out of his. Presumably your blogger drives like a moron.

Our electricity supply comes from coal, not oil. I don't really like it but it works. In terms of raw energy its also more efficient (don't quote me because I do not remember the source but I assure you it was a notch above someone's blog), but that is a moot point because the U.S. has enough coal for centuries and its relatively easy to get.

Oh, and while you're figuring out how to drive a Civic correctly also try coating your roof with something other than black heat-absorbing shingles so you worry less about your AC power draw. A huge, huge part of America's energy problem is stupidity in one form or another.

Very true, what most people don't realize is that our dependence to oil is primarily for our vehicles, not to power and heat our homes.

**GHook93** · 27th July 2008, 01:51 PM

Quote by: Deadeye

In France 80% of their electricity comes from nuclear power plants. We are in the process of building new ones now, and in the future and especially if McCain is elected we will build many more; then we will be providing electrical power as are the French, and the Japanese and the Saudis, etc..

Then maybe we'll be able to process coal into fuel for cars. The Germans did it in WWII, but it is quite expensive. But at nearly $5 a gallon I think we could do it.

I agree with nuclear, but I also think we should try to promote solar, thermal, hydro and wind also. Coal, just like ethanol, is not a solution to gas price problem, it would add additional problems. We need to develop 100% electric cars or compressed air cars (they are developing one in France), but in the meantime we need to drill domestically!

**Deadeye** · 27th July 2008, 01:55 PM

Quote by: xyzer

If we could just get the environmental lobby in line the problem could quite easily be solved! Unfortunately we have a bunch of ancient cretins embedded in our national legislature who feel obligated to the environmental lobby....and refuse to move off "top dead center"?

Yep. The sad thing is it's only going to get worse. Unless the people wake up and demand that those cretins in congress change their stripes. Probably won't happen however.

Note how congress is doing nothing now. They are probably waiting for the outcome of the election and if predictions are correct the D's will have a large majority in both houses. How can that be? D's are notorious for doing nothing, or worse yet doing the exact opposit of what should be done. Yet it looks like they are about to rule the roost.

The people, therefore; have to make their will known. It's reported that over 70% of Americans want us to drill. Yet Demos refute the effort. Has public opinion been so manipulated by the Democrat leaning media?

To quote the king in "The King and I" "It's a puzzlement".

**Deadeye** · 27th July 2008, 02:06 PM

Quote by: GHook93

Very true, what most people don't realize is that our dependence to oil is primarily for our vehicles, not to power and heat our homes.

However about 30% of the oil we use is to heat homes and to power electrical power plants. If we reduced that number to zero we'd have more gas to run our cars on and maybe we'd reduce the cost.

What everyone needs to understand is that we have built our prosperity on the availability of cheap, reliable energy. If we are forced to pump a large share of our income into energy then the money that we would normally provided as capital would be greatly diminished.

If one sucks capital out of a capitalist society then one has recession and maybe even depression (which is really only a deep and long felt recession.....it's major symptom is usually deflation).

So this gas mess is about a lot more than just how much we pay at the pump. It's about the steadfastness of our way of life and our economic future.

Which is why, of course; that the congress has got to get off of their collective asses and make some good decisions, and do it NOW.

**Deadeye** · 27th July 2008, 02:11 PM

Quote by: Clarence

strong language but, truth.

It is also a construct of inept government. In short we caused it ourselves and largely by massive stupidity and shortsightedness in Washington DC.

**maximdewinter** · 27th July 2008, 02:45 PM

Quote by: Thanatos

Maxim, you're a disgrace to Republicans everywhere.

If you drive a Civic correctly you get 56 mpg. Talk all you want but that's how much my dad actually gets out of his. Presumably your blogger drives like a moron.

Well then I might just as well be a disgrace to Democrats too since I am neither a Republican or Democrat. I am Ron Paul libertarian who has decided to vote for John McCain because he is a better candidate than Barack Obama.

You assume a lot. You shouldn't make assumptions. You assume that I'm against hybrid cars. I'm just reporting what I've read about people who are not as thrilled about them as you would expect from all the hype. Here's more debunking of hybrid hype your daddy notwithstanding:

Prius Owners Question Mileage Claims

• Winternet.com displays the site owner's Prius [COLOR=red][COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot][COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot]fuel [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot]consumption[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] records dating back to 2002. The lifetime average as of Nov. 20, 2005 is 43.2 mpg, a bit worse than Sandra's experience.
• On another site, randyrathbun.org, a person we'll assume is Randy Rathbun displays his log dating back to March 31, 2002. His lifetime average: 47.332 mpg.
• On the Seattle Electric Vehicle Association Website, a consumer identified as RJF has posted his Prius log, starting July 14, 2005. His lifetime average to date: 49.221 mpg.
This comes as no surprise to [COLOR=red][COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot][COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot]automotive[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] experts. Data from Consumer ReportsConsumer Reports' real-world driving test, the Civic Hybrid averaged 26 mpg in the city, while the Toyota Prius averaged 35 mpg, much less than their respective EPA estimates of 47 and 60 mpg. Hybrid cars performed much closer to EPA estimates in Consumer Reports' indicates that hybrid cars get less than 60 percent of EPA estimates while navigating city streets. In
highway tests.

So according to you all these people are not driving their hybrid cars correctly?

Quote by: Thanatos

Our electricity supply comes from coal, not oil. I don't really like it but it works. In terms of raw energy its also more efficient (don't quote me because I do not remember the source but I assure you it was a notch above someone's blog), but that is a moot point because the U.S. has enough coal for centuries and its relatively easy to get.

Oh, and while you're figuring out how to drive a Civic correctly also try coating your roof with something other than black heat-absorbing shingles so you worry less about your AC power draw. A huge, huge part of America's energy problem is stupidity in one form or another.

You completely avoided the point I was making about how if everyone plugged their electric cars into their wall sockets the the entire grid would go down. If each car were drawing 57,000 watts per hour while charging, what would the color of peoples roofs have to do with price of eggs in Peru?

Also I noticed that you avoided my question about why it would be a logical thing to set up a system of energy generation that was dependent on the weather when weather patterns are changing. We're going to assume here that is indeed illogical to do that and so your solar fantasy in remote areas vanishes too.