I don't get why McCain is only a few points behind Obama.

[maximdewinter]

Quote by: GHook93 See Obama is in between a Irock and a Hard Place. He, like all the D's stated the surge was a mistake and ran hard on it. Now he has been proven that the McCain Surge (remember that is what both Obama and Clinton called it in the debates) has been proven as a success, one of the best military strategies since WW II, Obama can't outright endorse it. All he can endorse is that the Iraqi situation looks great. Rather he tries to follow Americans that we would be in the same position in Iraq without the surge. I can't believe people on the left are buying it. I hope the moderates aren't, because its one of the worst political back-talks and do for my party and candidacy then do for my country attitudes. He even in a way has stated the surge is a huge success by stating he wants to employ the surge in Afghanistan. Like I said, this is one of the reason the race is so close, when the D's should be running away with it.

During the dark days of Iraq, all on the left, many in the middle and even some on the right wanted George Bush to admit he was wrong about Iraq. In the eyes of many, the inability of George Bush to admit he was wrong about WMD, wrong about the Iraqi weapons development caused those people to view this inability to own up to mistakes as a character weakness.

Mr. Obama, completely tone deaf to this public sentiment, has walked into a snare by not saying "I was wrong about the surge in Iraq" and consequently is stirring up these bad feelings about the inability of leaders to admit mistakes in general and about Iraq in particular. You would think that with his 300+ mini State Department of traveling advisors someone would advise him to admit his mistake and pick up some points with moderates.

As I say, Barry is not ready for prime time. But it probably won't make any difference because the people who will vote for Barry don't read newspapers, don't follow these stories closely and are generally unsophisticated in these matters. They want Obama to give them freebies so, really, the Democrats could be running the Travelocity Gnome and garner sizable votes. As we are seeing more and more of Obama up close, he can be seen for the awful candidate he is. Democrats were foolish not to go with a real Democrat like Joe Biden.

[GHook93]

Quote by: maximdewinter During the dark days of Iraq, all on the left, many in the middle and even some on the right wanted George Bush to admit he was wrong about Iraq. In the eyes of many, the inability of George Bush to admit he was wrong about WMD, wrong about the Iraqi weapons development caused those people to view this inability to own up to mistakes as a character weakness. Mr. Obama, completely tone deaf to this public sentiment, has walked into a snare by not saying "I was wrong about the surge in Iraq" and consequently is stirring up these bad feelings about the inability of leaders to admit mistakes in general and about Iraq in particular. You would think that with his 300+ mini State Department of traveling advisors someone would advise him to admit his mistake and pick up some points with moderates. As I say, Barry is not ready for prime time. But it probably won't make any difference because the people who will vote for Barry don't read newspapers, don't follow these stories closely and are generally unsophisticated in these matters. They want Obama to give them freebies so, really, the Democrats could be running the Travelocity Gnome and garner sizable votes. As we are seeing more and more of Obama up close, he can be seen for the awful candidate he is. Democrats were foolish not to go with a real Democrat like Joe Biden.

Great point! Except for Biden, really Biden had no chance (quick point on Biden - he spend less pork than Ron Paul, as did every Republican candidate in the Senate and House- sorry to derail, just wanted to point that out).

Hard place, if Obama comes out and admits the surge success, then he loses a lot o creditability, his already questioned and shaky foreign policy experience takes a huge blow and he gives a big bump and pat on the back to McCain and the McCain surge! Irocq - if he keeps his current campaign of disingenious denial he will slowly and slowly lose more creditability and more independents. Wait for his to fumble during the debates, since there is really no easy out from him on the surge and no political talk will save him. His best bet is to take his lumps now rather then later. But again he is between a Irocq and a hard place.

To my credit I stated months back the come election time the Iraq war and the McCain Surge were going to be Republican pluses. Wait to the debate it could be Democratic sinkers!

[xyzer]

??

I don't think you read my post. I said that we have to use our own resources for the meantime

Thats what we are talking about isn't it? We have resources which we haven't developed.Congress has nixed doing anything constructive..result nothing has been done? We don't have the developed resources because Congress has refused to give in to the environmental lobby and instead proposed largely nosensical alternatives?
Isn't the simplest solution develop the cheaper oil reaouces we have using better technology to insure environmental cleanliness? Lessen our dependence on cartel prices by increasing supply? Just get on with it instead of throwing up barriers to the simplest solution?

[maximdewinter]

Quote by: Nono Certainly it's an exaggeration to call the US a police state, though it do look a lot more like one than it did seven years ago. .

In what way? Got anything in particular on that?

[Clarence]

here we go...there's lots of examples of a police state in this and other nations. The catch 22 about trying to prove it is people might believe it

[Nono]

Quote by: max Got anything in particular on that?

Of course. For example, wiretapping was up 20% (twenty percent) in 2007: Wiretap Report 2007

[maximdewinter]

Quote by: Nono Of course. For example, wiretapping was up 20% (twenty percent) in 2007: Wiretap Report 2007

Excellent link Nono. I have to to admit I was surprised.

If you follow the data contained in Table 9

Arrests and Convictions Resulting From Intercepts Installed in
Calendar Years 1997 Through 2007:

http://www.uscourts.gov/wiretap07/Table92007.pdf

We can see that in peaceful 1999 there were 4,372 wiretaps authorized resulting in 654 convictions, yet in 2002, a year after after the US was viciously attacked by foreign saboteurs with thousands of innocent civilians dead, there were only3,060 wiretaps authorized with 493 convictions in that year. In my opinion there should have been many more wiretaps.

Yet if you consider that the US is at roughly 300 million population, 3060 people represents .00010% of the population and 4372 is .00014 % I would say that number of wiretaps as a percentage of population is exceedingly minute for any police state worth their salt.


With the 3000 to 4000 people arrested, I see 500 to 650 actually convicted. In a police state, wouldn't the trials be just for show with 100% the defendants being shipped to some gulag ? I mean, how did thousands of accused get off in a police state?

Also the wiretap increase in 2007 you cite represents legal wiretaps. Are you against legal wiretaps? I can't think of a country that doesn't have them. Actually you might worry less about legal wiretapping in the US and get on the ball in your neck of the woods:

Europe Is Listening

[maximdewinter]

Quote by: Thanatos The sort of gas-electric hybrids my dad's side of the family all drive and I'm probably getting soon; by using vastly less gas you feel prices far less. There are also true electric cars and high efficiency solar plants and all sorts of fun stuff which are also ready to go and have been for some time. You seem to be stuck in about 1995.

Vastly less gas?

Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short

"Pete Blackshaw was so excited about getting a hybrid gasoline-electric car that he had his wife videotape the trip to the Honda dealership to pick up his Civic Hybrid. The enthusiastic owner ordered a customized license plate with "MO MILES" on it, and started a blog about his new hybrid lifestyle.
But after a few months of commuting to his job in Cincinnati, Blackshaw's hybrid euphoria vanished as his car's odometer revealed that the gas mileage he was hoping for was only a pipe dream. Honda's Civic Hybrid is rated by the EPA to get 47 miles per gallon in the city, and 48 mpg on the highway. After nearly 1,000 miles of mostly city driving, Blackshaw was getting 31.4 mpg.


Regarding electric cars: Do you understand that you have to plug an electric car into a wall socket? The electricity generated by the powerplant goes through a powergrid, but in the US, 70% of that electricity is produced by fossil fuel.
Electric Power Industry--Chapter 3
Have you also heard about energy loss through transmission lines? Overall efficiency as in fuel burned yielding usable power?

Current electric car capacitor technology has us at 57kWh. (That's 57,000 Watts per hour.) In many places in the US when temperatures get over 90 degrees people plug in their air conditioners using just 1000 watts per hour and we get brown outs. Get real.

Quote by: Thanatos As for environmental regulations, I don't think you get just how bad removing the laws relating to transport and refining could be. They weren't created just for fun. Besides, you still have to build the roads to get to where you need to be to start digging the wells and laying down the pipeline. Solar plants can be built in much less remote areas...

No I don't get it. Considering the the huge list of environmentally friendly countries that drill for oil....are they all terrible too? If you have to build roads to the oil wells so be it. But, if you are installing solar plants in remote areas don't you also have build roads to install and service them?

Also if our climate is changing and weather patterns are not the same from one year to another can you explain how it is prudent to install energy producing stations at locations which are dependent on the vagaries of the weather?

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Clarence it's important that we establish which party holds the entire blame, before we work towards short and long term solutions

It's important to ditch partisan politics which are more to blame for our country's problems than any one specific party.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: maximdewinter Mr. Obama, completely tone deaf to this public sentiment, has walked into a snare by not saying "I was wrong about the surge in Iraq" and consequently is stirring up these bad feelings about the inability of leaders to admit mistakes in general and about Iraq in particular

I don't care about Obama flip flopping about his opinion on the surge. Flip flopping means to change one's mind. All of us change our minds all of the time when we learn more about something that we decided upon earlier. So flip flopping can also be called "learning".

What concerns me is that Obama doesn't seem to have the courage to admit that he has changed his mind. Do we really care? Would we rather have a fanatic in the White House, who never changes his mind? (Bush BTW: hasn't changed his mind on the reasons he decided to go to war in Iraq because he still believes he was right then and is right now.)

Sadly I see a lot of Clinton in Obama. He's afraid to say or do something because of the possible political fall out. He's poll driven. President Bush, whom I admire, doesn't react to the polls. He says they are old news. He makes decisions pragmatically, and not politically. I like that.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: maximdewinter Vastly less gas? Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short "Pete Blackshaw was so excited about getting a hybrid gasoline-electric car that he had his wife videotape the trip to the Honda dealership to pick up his Civic Hybrid. The enthusiastic owner ordered a customized license plate with "MO MILES" on it, and started a blog about his new hybrid lifestyle. But after a few months of commuting to his job in Cincinnati, Blackshaw's hybrid euphoria vanished as his car's odometer revealed that the gas mileage he was hoping for was only a pipe dream. Honda's Civic Hybrid is rated by the EPA to get 47 miles per gallon in the city, and 48 mpg on the highway. After nearly 1,000 miles of mostly city driving, Blackshaw was getting 31.4 mpg. Regarding electric cars: Do you understand that you have to plug an electric car into a wall socket? The electricity generated by the powerplant goes through a powergrid, but in the US, 70% of that electricity is produced by fossil fuel. Electric Power Industry--Chapter 3 Have you also heard about energy loss through transmission lines? Overall efficiency as in fuel burned yielding usable power? Current electric car capacitor technology has us at 57kWh. (That's 57,000 Watts per hour.) In many places in the US when temperatures get over 90 degrees people plug in their air conditioners using just 1000 watts per hour and we get brown outs. Get real. No I don't get it. Considering the the huge list of environmentally friendly countries that drill for oil....are they all terrible too? If you have to build roads to the oil wells so be it. But, if you are installing solar plants in remote areas don't you also have build roads to install and service them? Also if our climate is changing and weather patterns are not the same from one year to another can you explain how it is prudent to install energy producing stations at locations which are dependent on the vagaries of the weather?

Maxim, you're a disgrace to Republicans everywhere.

If you drive a Civic correctly you get 56 mpg. Talk all you want but that's how much my dad actually gets out of his. Presumably your blogger drives like a moron.

Our electricity supply comes from coal, not oil. I don't really like it but it works. In terms of raw energy its also more efficient (don't quote me because I do not remember the source but I assure you it was a notch above someone's blog), but that is a moot point because the U.S. has enough coal for centuries and its relatively easy to get.

Oh, and while you're figuring out how to drive a Civic correctly also try coating your roof with something other than black heat-absorbing shingles so you worry less about your AC power draw. A huge, huge part of America's energy problem is stupidity in one form or another.

[Deadeye]

In France 80% of their electricity comes from nuclear power plants. We are in the process of building new ones now, and in the future and especially if McCain is elected we will build many more; then we will be providing electrical power as are the French, and the Japanese and the Saudis, etc..

Then maybe we'll be able to process coal into fuel for cars. The Germans did it in WWII, but it is quite expensive. But at nearly $5 a gallon I think we could do it.

[xyzer]

Getting backs to the wire taps...As usual we are mixing data on wire taps seeking evidence of civil and criminal and domestic law breaking, in with wire taps(electronic surveillance) between known/suspected international terrorists with people in the US? Wire taps for intelligence information in a wartime environment, versus wire taps to gather evidence in domestic legal matters.

The international surveillance(wire taps) which caused the furor, had resulted in no injury to US citizens. Thus when some tried to take the issue to court they were rejected as not having "standing"? By the law you have to be able to show some injury(standing) before you can claim injury in court. Shucks, the antiwar faction were again flailing away at an invented strawman?

Finally Congress passed legislation which alleviated the matter and was more in tune with recent technology plus wartime intelligence gathering techniques. And in spite of Democrat resistance let Telecom Companies off the hook for helping gather intelligence during a national emergerncy.

[xyzer]

Deadon Deadeye! We have only some one hundred nuke plants which produce 20% of our power needs. Obviously we need another 200 or so to take the pressure off oil use. We also have something like 300 years worth of coal reserves which with clean burning technology would help reduce oil consumption, leaving a greater supply for propulsion.

If we could just get the environmental lobby in line the problem could quite easily be solved! Unfortunately we have a bunch of ancient cretins embedded in our national legislature who feel obligated to the environmental lobby....and refuse to move off "top dead center"?

[Clarence]

A huge, huge part of America's energy problem is stupidity in one form or another.

strong language but, truth.

[GHook93]

Quote by: maximdewinter Vastly less gas? Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short "Pete Blackshaw was so excited about getting a hybrid gasoline-electric car that he had his wife videotape the trip to the Honda dealership to pick up his Civic Hybrid. The enthusiastic owner ordered a customized license plate with "MO MILES" on it, and started a blog about his new hybrid lifestyle. But after a few months of commuting to his job in Cincinnati, Blackshaw's hybrid euphoria vanished as his car's odometer revealed that the gas mileage he was hoping for was only a pipe dream. Honda's Civic Hybrid is rated by the EPA to get 47 miles per gallon in the city, and 48 mpg on the highway. After nearly 1,000 miles of mostly city driving, Blackshaw was getting 31.4 mpg. Regarding electric cars: Do you understand that you have to plug an electric car into a wall socket? The electricity generated by the powerplant goes through a powergrid, but in the US, 70% of that electricity is produced by fossil fuel. Electric Power Industry--Chapter 3 Have you also heard about energy loss through transmission lines? Overall efficiency as in fuel burned yielding usable power? Current electric car capacitor technology has us at 57kWh. (That's 57,000 Watts per hour.) In many places in the US when temperatures get over 90 degrees people plug in their air conditioners using just 1000 watts per hour and we get brown outs. Get real. No I don't get it. Considering the the huge list of environmentally friendly countries that drill for oil....are they all terrible too? If you have to build roads to the oil wells so be it. But, if you are installing solar plants in remote areas don't you also have build roads to install and service them? Also if our climate is changing and weather patterns are not the same from one year to another can you explain how it is prudent to install energy producing stations at locations which are dependent on the vagaries of the weather?

Well put! The comeback for liberals on drilling is that instead of drilling or using more nuclear power we need to get cars that don't use gas. Well no sh1t! Conservative and Republicans want that just as much as the liberals, but we don't want to starve in the meantime!

[GHook93]

Quote by: Thanatos Maxim, you're a disgrace to Republicans everywhere. If you drive a Civic correctly you get 56 mpg. Talk all you want but that's how much my dad actually gets out of his. Presumably your blogger drives like a moron. Our electricity supply comes from coal, not oil. I don't really like it but it works. In terms of raw energy its also more efficient (don't quote me because I do not remember the source but I assure you it was a notch above someone's blog), but that is a moot point because the U.S. has enough coal for centuries and its relatively easy to get. Oh, and while you're figuring out how to drive a Civic correctly also try coating your roof with something other than black heat-absorbing shingles so you worry less about your AC power draw. A huge, huge part of America's energy problem is stupidity in one form or another.

Very true, what most people don't realize is that our dependence to oil is primarily for our vehicles, not to power and heat our homes.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Deadeye In France 80% of their electricity comes from nuclear power plants. We are in the process of building new ones now, and in the future and especially if McCain is elected we will build many more; then we will be providing electrical power as are the French, and the Japanese and the Saudis, etc.. Then maybe we'll be able to process coal into fuel for cars. The Germans did it in WWII, but it is quite expensive. But at nearly $5 a gallon I think we could do it.

I agree with nuclear, but I also think we should try to promote solar, thermal, hydro and wind also. Coal, just like ethanol, is not a solution to gas price problem, it would add additional problems. We need to develop 100% electric cars or compressed air cars (they are developing one in France), but in the meantime we need to drill domestically!

[Deadeye]

Quote by: xyzer If we could just get the environmental lobby in line the problem could quite easily be solved! Unfortunately we have a bunch of ancient cretins embedded in our national legislature who feel obligated to the environmental lobby....and refuse to move off "top dead center"?

Yep. The sad thing is it's only going to get worse. Unless the people wake up and demand that those cretins in congress change their stripes. Probably won't happen however.

Note how congress is doing nothing now. They are probably waiting for the outcome of the election and if predictions are correct the D's will have a large majority in both houses. How can that be? D's are notorious for doing nothing, or worse yet doing the exact opposit of what should be done. Yet it looks like they are about to rule the roost.

The people, therefore; have to make their will known. It's reported that over 70% of Americans want us to drill. Yet Demos refute the effort. Has public opinion been so manipulated by the Democrat leaning media?

To quote the king in "The King and I" "It's a puzzlement".

[Deadeye]

Quote by: GHook93 Very true, what most people don't realize is that our dependence to oil is primarily for our vehicles, not to power and heat our homes.

However about 30% of the oil we use is to heat homes and to power electrical power plants. If we reduced that number to zero we'd have more gas to run our cars on and maybe we'd reduce the cost.

What everyone needs to understand is that we have built our prosperity on the availability of cheap, reliable energy. If we are forced to pump a large share of our income into energy then the money that we would normally provided as capital would be greatly diminished.

If one sucks capital out of a capitalist society then one has recession and maybe even depression (which is really only a deep and long felt recession.....it's major symptom is usually deflation).

So this gas mess is about a lot more than just how much we pay at the pump. It's about the steadfastness of our way of life and our economic future.

Which is why, of course; that the congress has got to get off of their collective asses and make some good decisions, and do it NOW.