Are American's the dumbest people in the world?

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Nono Are there people with bad teeth in this country? Yeah, a teentzy-weentzy micro-percentage of the population. Nothing at all like what you see walking down the street in so many parts of the US. Trust me.

Um... I don't mean to insult countries like GB but down at Disney I've seen quite a few people with fairly bad and even downright brownish teeth who I'm guessing were all British? Even if I didn't hear them speak the high socks, short shorts, and sports polo's and mesh sports shirts all spoke of a non US based fashion.

[blue saki]

Quote by: Nono Look, sunshine, my stepsister (for example) is one of what I would call America's working poor. So is her husband. Man, they hustle the live-long day. But they're poor. They certainly can't afford medical care. Dentistry is a remote luxury, as their teeth -- or what's left of them -- attest. Their friends are no different. So don't rant at me about "socialism" and "the media". I've seen it with my own eyes.

I could cite hundreds if not thousands of antecdotal examples I have seen with my own eyes to support my positions. For the sake of simplicity I will give you an all too common scenario.

Baby is admitted to ER. Child is triaged and found to have a high fever, is lethargic and seemingly in pain. Baby momma comes in an hour later dressed to the nines talking on her cell phone asking where the f*** is my car, is obviously intoxicated and irritated because her little party was cut short. Baby momma questioned about medical history of infant .......
How long has baby had symptoms?
3 days. (Should have been seen at least on second day of illness. There are numerous FREE clinics in the area.)

Any vomiting, diarrhea?
I dunno, baby at my cousin's house for 3 days.

Why does your son have a diaper rash that looks like it has been neglected for weeks?
What diaper rash? I dunno.

Has child a history of siezures?
Well he had 1 last year.

What was the diagnosis?
I dunno.

Is baby up to date on innoculations? ( which are also available for FREE! )
I dunno.

All the while baby momma is on her CELL PHONE, lambasting the nurse for having the audacity to interrupt her phone conversation. Baby daddy comes to the room..... finally. He too is obviously intoxicated along with signs of recent sustance abuse and then proceeds demanding someone get in there and heal the baby he hasn't seen for a month. Baby daddy then arrested and baby momma having a fit because baby daddy going to jail........ again. ( But he too has a cell phone, Nike Shox, latest Starter hoodie and lots of bling right down to the gold teeth.) Nevermind their suffering child. Nevermind the family down the hall who are hanging on by a thread because they were just creamed by a drunk driver. Nevermind having the decency to show respect for the family at the other end of the hall who just lost their wife and mother because she was shot to death for her car. These are the people who deserve my sympathy, not those selfish, irresponsible, wastes of tax payer dollars whom neglect getting care for their infant and then when it's serious, blame everyone but themselves. Diagnosis for infant? Chronic ear infections that have gone untreated. Baby given antibiotic and sent home with momma. Same baby admitted 4 weeks later for fevral siezure which could have been avoided. Baby momma has Medicaid AND a job AND free childcare by the way. Does baby daddy contribute to the needs of his child? In all probability, he does not.

Now are you getting the picture? It's all about priorities and choices dear. That monthly cell phone bill would go a long way for proper dental care. Those designer clothes could have gotten the child consistant medical care via a regular Pediatrician. The booze and drugs? Maybe a visit to a social therapist or parenting classes. Yet, I am expected to fund even more healthcare so spoiled, envious, materialistic, selfish snots can talk on their cell phones, wear the latest fashions, and continue the neglect of their child's health. No thanks, I'll pass.

As to your example of your sister in the States, not so long ago I was among those "working poor" I pulled MYSELF out through PRIORITIES and CHOICES. In America we are not dumb. We are becoming a Nation of envious, lazy whiners waiting for mommy government to come and save the day.

There is a huge difference.

[Barnicals]

Quote by: shawmutt I don't trust anyone. I trust statistics.

That's just funny. Have you looked at your sig lately?

[Barnicals]

Quote by: blue saki Now are you getting the picture? It's all about priorities and choices dear. That monthly cell phone bill would go a long way for proper dental care. Those designer clothes could have gotten the child consistant medical care via a regular Pediatrician. The booze and drugs? Maybe a visit to a social therapist or parenting classes. Yet, I am expected to fund even more healthcare so spoiled, envious, materialistic, selfish snots can talk on their cell phones, wear the latest fashions, and continue the neglect of their child's health. No thanks, I'll pass. As to your example of your sister in the States, not so long ago I was among those "working poor" I pulled MYSELF out through PRIORITIES and CHOICES. In America we are not dumb. We are becoming a Nation of envious, lazy whiners waiting for mommy government to come and save the day. There is a huge difference.

I think that this is a very good example, and a fine conclusion. I too have seen parents with neglected children, children who, in thier own ignorance, take pieces of plastic home to give to thier parents, which they will use as cocaine tubes. Things like this happen all over the world, I'm sure.

[Nono]

Quote by: sake I pulled MYSELF out through PRIORITIES and CHOICES. In America we are not dumb. We are becoming a Nation of envious, lazy whiners waiting for mommy government to come and save the day.

Oh, right! *I* worked my fingers to the bone -- I'm a self-made man. Yep.
The thing I love about people like you is your inability to admit that maybe you were lucky or somebody helped you. Bullshit.

The ethic of America is every man for himself, and eat the wounded.

As for your "priorities", let me once again quote last week's article from The Independent:

"Despite the fact that the US spends roughly $5.2bn (£2.6bn) every day on health care, more per capita than any other nation in the world, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of every western European and Nordic country, bar Denmark."

Think about what this means. Humungous inefficiency. They're spending way more than anyone else on the planet. But their lives are shorter than people's lives over here.

Gimme a break, saki. You make me laugh.

[blue saki]

Quote by: Nono Oh, right! *I* worked my fingers to the bone -- I'm a self-made man. Yep. The thing I love about people like you is your inability to admit that maybe you were lucky or somebody helped you. Bullshit. The ethic of America is every man for himself, and eat the wounded. As for your "priorities", let me once again quote last week's article from The Independent: "Despite the fact that the US spends roughly $5.2bn (£2.6bn) every day on health care, more per capita than any other nation in the world, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of every western European and Nordic country, bar Denmark." Think about what this means. Humungous inefficiency. They're spending way more than anyone else on the planet. But their lives are shorter than people's lives over here. Gimme a break, saki. You make me laugh.

Throwing more money....... TAXPAYER MONEY at the problem will do NOTHING to solve the problem. How much will it take? Another 5 BILLION per day perhaps? Let's make it 10 just for fun. If you're so concerned why don't you send the poor souls your offset cash from the free health care you recieve?

There are many problems in the healthcare industry. Fraud, litigation, insurance companies, administrative, and as you stated again..... inefficiency to name a few. Adding gov't beaurocracy to the mix just creates bigger problems. That has GARGANTUAN inefficiency written all over it. I have settled the shorter life span arguement. Noone is denied medical care in this Country period. You only have to seek it in order to get it.

And yeah I worked my ass off at a $10.00 hr piss ant job, raised 3 honor roll students, went to school and got my degree in 7 years that should have taken 3. I did not qualify for grants because I "owned" my home. I had family members' help.... there I admitted it. So yeah it's bullshit all right. Luck? Luck is simply taking advantage of opportunity. But there's a catch.........you gotta get off your lazy ass and do the work.

The ethic of America is eat the wounded? You returned the favor of laughter.

[tdod]

According to Development: US fails to measure up on 'human index', Americans lag far behind other countries on most measures of quality of life. Not to be too provocative, but given America's absolute wealth doesn't this suggest that the average American is basically an idiot to accept these conditions. Isn't it clear yet to the majority of Americans that the "American Dream" of their mythology is, in fact, one big con? Will Americans ever get it that the capitalist, free market system they've been indoctrinated to think is the best in the world is, in fact, a scam to rip off the majority of Americans who clearly are suckers? The rich get richer thanks to the government they bought. The poor get poorer. And, the middle class gets sold to the Chinese, Indians, and the oil industry. And most Americans just watch the TV as they're bled of everything of value, including their lives. How sad. How sad. How sad

Their is a myriad of errors in your post.

First of all, capitalist ideologies propelled the USA to it's current position in the first place, and only now that we move closer to socialism is their an economic slowdown.


Second of all, it isn't made clear whether or not the article considers undocumented immigrants to be Americans.

Cuba often discounts babies who die during labor, so the comparison to them is also incorrect.


Finally, the belief that intelligence can be judged on the conversion rate of money into happiness, longevity, or morality, is flawed and fails to consider that intelligence is a multifaceted concept that can't be determined by one measure. For that reason, the question at hand is both flawed and ignorant.

Dentistry is a remote luxury, as their teeth -- or what's left of them -- attest. Their friends are no different.

can they not afford toothpaste, or are you just lying?

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Nono "Despite the fact that the US spends roughly $5.2bn (£2.6bn) every day on health care, more per capita than any other nation in the world, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of every western European and Nordic country, bar Denmark." Think about what this means. Humungous inefficiency. They're spending way more than anyone else on the planet. But their lives are shorter than people's lives over here. Gimme a break, saki. You make me laugh.

Could that be the result of the US having the largest numbers of people making unhealthy lifestyle choices?

Or do you think its directly related to having a nationalized healthcare system brings a better quality to living.

[Dan_77]

Quote by: Nono Oh, right! *I* worked my fingers to the bone -- I'm a self-made man. Yep. The thing I love about people like you is your inability to admit that maybe you were lucky or somebody helped you. Bullshit. The ethic of America is every man for himself, and eat the wounded. As for your "priorities", let me once again quote last week's article from The Independent: "Despite the fact that the US spends roughly $5.2bn (£2.6bn) every day on health care, more per capita than any other nation in the world, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of every western European and Nordic country, bar Denmark." Think about what this means.

It means you, like so many others making this same "point" over and over again ad nauseum, have fallen into the trap of the "correlation not causation" logical fallacy.

There is myriad evidence that our arguably "shorter" lifespans are due to our lifestyle, and in fact a symptom of our greatness - Americans live easy, sedentary, luxurious lives. Few of us need to do physical labor, and many of us (myself included) have careers where the only physical abilities needed are typing and speaking. We can live entire lives in our comfortable, climate-controlled houses and cars, we STILL don't need to walk to public transportation, etc...

Does that mean that vast numbers of us are obese and die of complications from that (our #1 cause of death BY FAR is heart disease)? Yes. It does.

Does it mean that we need socialized medicine like Europeans have, or that our healthcare system is to blame? Certainly not.

By the way - look up survival rates on specific diseases (cancer, heart attack, diabetes, etc). The quality of our health care system is ridiculously better than Europe's.

Health Care BS - U.S. Has Best Cancer Survival Rate

And another article with a shocking disparity between US cancer survival rates and Europe:
CTV.ca | Canada gets high ranking for cancer survival rates

"The U.S. has a five-year survival rate in all the cancers studied of 91.9 per cent, while Europe's is much lower at 57.1 per cent."

Yup, that spending on health care...


So, in short... No. Try again.

[Night]

Quote by: Nono Are there people with bad teeth in this country? Yeah, a teentzy-weentzy micro-percentage of the population. Nothing at all like what you see walking down the street in so many parts of the US. Trust me.

I don't believe GB's National Health System covers dental correct? That would be the explanation. Because, I know from experience, many Englanders (more so then Americans) have really bad teeth.

[Matt W]

Quote by: Night I don't believe GB's National Health System covers dental correct? That would be the explanation. Because, I know from experience, many Englanders (more so then Americans) have really bad teeth.

You're wrong.

And the old sterotype of the British with bad teeth is seriously outdated...

[LadiesMan217]

Sdbest, please stop being a troll. If I wanted to, I could find any random statistic about Canada that is unrelated to intelligence(just like you have done) and then pose the question "Are Canadians the dumbest people in the world?" and it would be just as valid as your ridiculous thread. But I wouldn't do that because I like to use my brain for intelligent debate.

Quote by: LadiesMan217 Sdbest, please stop being a troll. If I wanted to, I could find any random statistic about Canada that is unrelated to intelligence(just like you have done) and then pose the question "Are Canadians the dumbest people in the world?" and it would be just as valid as your ridiculous thread. But I wouldn't do that because I like to use my brain for intelligent debate.

Troll? Me! I didn't post a "random statistic". I posted a whole report about the shamefully low quality of life in the U.S. suffered by most of its citizens, when compared to the other developed countries.

The point is Americans are generally hyper-chauvinistic, yet the data does not support their delusions. Hence "dumb".

Please, please post something about Canada. Unlike some Americans--actually most Americans--we Canadians don't have such thin skin. Not only can we criticize other nations, we can take it. Bring it on, LadiesMan, that is if you can actually find something to criticize us about. If you can't, I can help you. Look up Canada's environmental record, our record on fisheries management, our treatment of native peoples, to get you started.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: sdbest Please, please post something about Canada. Unlike some Americans--actually most Americans--we Canadians don't have such thin skin. Not only can we criticize other nations, we can take it. Bring it on, LadiesMan, that is if you can actually find something to criticize us about. If you can't, I can help you. Look up Canada's environmental record, our record on fisheries management, our treatment of native peoples, to get you started.

How about human rights trials for comedians and smoking bans?

[HelioPrime]

BTW: Anyone care to respond to my earlier question?

Is US health averages more likely related to lifestyle choices of the people or related to our lack of a nationalized healthcare.

So would the US be a "smarter" nation if we nationalized healthcare?

Quote by: HelioPrime How about human rights trials for comedians and smoking bans?

What's dumb about smoking bans?

Quote by: HelioPrime So would the US be a "smarter" nation if we nationalized healthcare?

Absolutely!

[blue saki]

Quote by: HelioPrime BTW: Anyone care to respond to my earlier question? Is US health averages more likely related to lifestyle choices of the people or related to our lack of a nationalized healthcare. So would the US be a "smarter" nation if we nationalized healthcare?

Maybe this can answer your question sir.

Let's take a look at the clearer picture as far as national healthcare = longer life. There are some major factors missing here.

Trauma is the leading cause of fatality in ages 1-29 with auto accidents at the forefront. 2006 estimates are 3.4 million per year.

3 million Americans die from obesity related diseases every year. Average age is 58.4

4 million Americans die from smoking related diseases each year. Average age 62.2

Violent crime victims account for deaths between the ages of 18-39. Conservative estimates are 2.89 million per year.

Infant mortality rates.
In America, babies born under 1 pound are recorded as live births. ( I think that speaks for itself)

Anyone who can deduce logically will see there is no correlation between lack of health insurance and longevity of life. It is in fact due to, in great portion, lifestyle choices.

Will nationalized Healthcare make us "smarter"? That all depends on the stipulations the gov't would provide in order to qualify for national insurance doesn't it? nudge,nudge wink,,wink.

[Dan_77]

Quote by: HelioPrime BTW: Anyone care to respond to my earlier question? Is US health averages more likely related to lifestyle choices of the people or related to our lack of a nationalized healthcare.

See my above post. In terms of disease survival rates for many of the largest killers of human beings, our health care system is the best in the world. Our shorter lifespan is therefore due to something else.

My thoughts, like yours and the rest of the scientific community (read: people who bother to look deep into facts instead of just falling for the fallacy that correlation = causation), lean towards our easy lifestyle.

Quote by: sdbest So would the US be a "smarter" nation if we nationalized healthcare? Absolutely!

Do you have any proof of this besides the correlation fallacy you made in your opening post?

While you're at it, let me do this. I will now show that having national health care makes a country's citizens' dumb...

Botswana has an average life expectancy of less than 40 years (39.3 at last check). World Life Expectancy Chart One of the lowest life spans in the world.

Botswana also has national, single payer health care like the Canadian and European systems.

Therefore, national, single-payer health care is a horrible failure and results in lower life span.


Now... Can anyone point out the problem in that section? I'll give you a hint... It's the same problem as when someone points to lifespan in the U.S. and says we need national healthcare because of our average lifespan numbers.

Ok... big hint... other factors............

Quote by: Matt W You're wrong. And the old sterotype of the British with bad teeth is seriously outdated...

Tell me about it... There's something about the women on the BBC America shows that is just so attractive to me...

Especially that Lucy Griffiths... swoon...

Quote by: tivodan1116 ... our health care system is the best in the world.

It is not. See The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems. The US health care system may be the world's most expensive, but it's not the best.

Given you can't get that fact straight, what does it say about the rest of your assertions?