Federal Government Gouging US Oil Consumers

[Compugasm]

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal The hydrogen stuff was just for show, so they're selling it off.

IMO, that says a hydrogen car is doomed. No matter what hydrogen car is made, without a place to pump out the fuel, that car is useless. In effect, Exxon is dictating that conservation is used to extend fuel supply. That is exactly what they want, because they can service more customers, without increasing supply, and at the same time charge consumers more money. The "reduce, reuse, recycle" is drilled into us as a solution. Hello record profits is what they should call it!

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal The first use of fuel cells was in space travel, actually. I'm not sure about how ready it is for airplanes, though.

Hmm, I didn't know that. But I was referring to the jet engine using hydrogen. Not just powering the internal lights and such. But a plane with the only exhaust as water vapor. That will take 30-40 years.

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal As for putting transformers in parking lots, there's still the issue of paying for all that electricity....

I didn't make this clear. I was trying to expand on your clean source comment. I meant a building (like an apartment complex, or local Wal-Mart) provides a clean source of power free of charge, and transfers this energy to the parking lot. So they aren't billing you. I concede, that in todays thinking, this is not a practical solution because no business would foot the bill to provide you free electricity.

However, "in the future" the charging time for vehicals will not be an issue, because the "transition phase" would be a benefit to any facility where long parking times allow trickle charging. These facilities providing the power will become centers where people prefer to live and shop; much like wheelchair accessable is valued to someone confined to a chair. Free electricty will draw in consumer spending.

In the 1900's, the lightbulb and it's mass production weren't what made electricity so wide spread. Lightbulbs are only good in the dark, and when your not sleeping. So Thomas Edison create all manner of devices that used electricity during the daytime. Telephones, phonographs, etc... plus, the method to distribute electricity to all the devices. First you need supply, then distribution, and consumption will follow. That is how you get clean energy usage to be adopted nationally from prodution to consumption, not the other way around.

The promotion of these hydrogen cars is all backwards. They're creating demand for a product, which has no distribution and zero supply. Hydrogen IS the most abundant element. But it has to be manufactured to separate (or added) from whatever it's bound to before it is used as a fuel. It isn't something you can produce locally unless the source is water. That is the key. The source of hydrogen can't be derrived from fossil fuels in any manner.

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal The other thing that comes to mind is that it might make sense to make the hydrogen locally.

The only thing that could be produced locally, is electricity (solar) and water (cistern collection). Corn, vegetable oils,etc... all those fuels are interesting. But ultimately irrelevant because of the very specific requirements of land or resources required to produce it. That is exactly one of the problems of fossil fuels it only can be extracted in certain locations. However, every building in this country could have solar cells and wind turbines. But again, you have to be wealthy, or live in the 3rd world to have access to those options. "Big oil" definately doesn't want you producing your own energy.

The production of hydrogen locally, would not work well, because it would be like powering everything with propane. How many people do you know today, locally produce and power things with tanks of propane? A barbeque grill, that is about it.

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal But if nobody sells H, there's no reason to own a vehicle that uses it.

We don't need cars to use hydrogen, that is the brainwashing and propaganda talking. Fuel cell cars sound great, but there isn't enough hydrogen in it to power a car. But no matter how much hydrogen is manufactured, the supply available in a car is still limited to the size of the tank. So the argument against electric batteries is moot as neither batteries or fuel cells hold enough. I concede that this won't always be so, but this thread is about lowering prices, and how we're being gouged on prices NOW.

Big things like buildings, ships, planes, etc... should be powered with hydrogen, because they have connection to water and electricity. There would be no need to rebuild a new "Hydrogen Economy". Because the source (water), and it's distribution (pipes) already exist and extend to most structures that have been built. At the very worst, you need an airconditioner sized unit, with a water connection, to provide the fuel cell with hydrogen to power a home.

Does it really make a difference then if oil comes from the middle east, or hydrogen comes from Exxon? We still need filling stations, and therefore dependant on someone else to manufacture, distribute, and sell hydrogen. Out of the frying pan, into the fire as they say.

Quote by: ThoughtCriminal As for storage, why dig a hole? It's a gas, so inflate some balloons or fly a blimp overhead.

Is that a joke?


Now you done got me all riled up. That rarely happens.

[Compugasm]

Americas most fuel efficient cars: not one of them made by American companies.

[oades11]

Quote by: Compugasm Is that a joke? Now you done got me all riled up. That rarely happens.

The Hindenburg actually didn't blow up, it burned, and it wasn't because of hydrogen. The reason it burned was because the outer skin of the blimp was coated with a substance practically identical to rocket fuel. The outer skin also didn't conduct electricity, so the atmospheric conditions made its surface extremely flammable.

[Chris]

Quote by: Compugasm Americas most fuel efficient cars: not one of them made by American companies.

excellent point.

Also why is America's fuel standards so much lower than Japan or Europe?

[Compugasm]

Quote by: oades11 The Hindenburg actually didn't blow up...

Hmm, okay. However, I still don't think huge floating airships of gas are a good choice. There will always be idiots shooting them, cutting cords.. besides, service stations are busy places. How big will these things have to be to service hundreds of vehicals each day? The space it occupies can't excede the plot of land it flies over. It would much taller than it is wide. Every gas station would have a floating skyscraper flying above it.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Compugasm Hmm, okay. However, I still don't think huge floating airships of gas are a good choice. There will always be idiots shooting them, cutting cords.. besides, service stations are busy places. How big will these things have to be to service hundreds of vehicals each day? The space it occupies can't excede the plot of land it flies over. It would much taller than it is wide. Every gas station would have a floating skyscraper flying above it.

Nanotechnology has intervened. The idea is to take advantage of the way hydrogen will cram into certain types of high internal surface area crystals and then release it under the right conditions.

Promising Step Towards More Effective Hydrogen Storage

This is but one of several competing and rapidly evolving technologies. Some storage materials can be made to flow like liquids and could be stored and transported like gasoline. Others of note include metal hydrides and a few synthetic polymers.

Glass Microspheres To Carry Hydrogen, Deliver Drugs, Filter Gases And Detect Nuclear Development

[Chris]

I heard from The Kid From Brooklyn, that there was a guy on Larry King Recently by the name of Oreilly and he was doing some damage control for the oil companies. Saying how the oil companies weren't making any money. And apparently this guy's salary was $50,000,000.00 per year.

Thats F'd up.

[Compugasm]

If an oil company wanted to pay me $50mil, I'd say whatever they wanted too.