I don't vote. Why would I?

[Voluntary]

Quote by: Vacuum If you had enough personal reason to leave, you would. Also, nobody can expect to live in a perfect nation.

Faulty reasoning. "Get up and leave if you don't like the system" is not a valid response.

[Vacuum]

Quote by: Voluntary Faulty reasoning. "Get up and leave if you don't like the system" is not a valid response.

I didn't tell you to leave, I simply observed that you are here, and haven't left yet, so it couldn't be that bad.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: Vacuum I didn't tell you to leave, I simply observed that you are here, and haven't left yet, so it couldn't be that bad.

And? Some Jews didn't leave the gas chambers and ovens. I guess it couldn't have been that bad.

I don't see your reason or where you are going with this.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Jack By the time the voting starts the chance for change is long past.

I always thought voting was the peoples chance to express that they either wanted a change in government or not.

Voluntary Why would it be compulsory? That would be frightening. The thought makes me sick to my stomach. Is voting compulsory in your country?

Sorry i may have been unintentionally a bit misleading. It is compulsory to register to vote , not actually vote.

[grandpa]

Quote by: SoylentGreen I always thought voting was the peoples chance to express that they either wanted a change in government or not.

For the most part, voting indicates that you support the system. If you believe in Barack Obama, you still do not only cast your ballot for him. You're voting for the system. The two parties work in unison to that end.

Grandpa h.

[Vacuum]

Quote by: Voluntary And? Some Jews didn't leave the gas chambers and ovens. I guess it couldn't have been that bad. I don't see your reason or where you are going with this.

Well, I obviously feel it is important for everyone to vote, so we have the perspectives of everyone in our nation.

And the Jews did not have a choice. You do.

In no way am I trying to tell you to leave, because I think that the opposition of people like you are what keeps the country the way it is, as far as freedom goes.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Vacuum Well, I obviously feel it is important for everyone to vote, so we have the perspectives of everyone in our nation. And the Jews did not have a choice.

If people were truly interested in everyone's perspective, they wouldn't elect elite leaders to begin with. They'd be directly involved in decision-making and wouldn't need centralized government. So long as we elect elites, we cannot reasonably anticipate a de-centralized, responsive society. We can only expect a powerful, expansionist nation run by bureaucrats.

Grandpa h.

[SoylentGreen]

grandpa For the most part, voting indicates that you support the system.

Can I just say thank you to all who answered , this thread has been a real learning curve for me.
Although I knew that "You're voting for the system. The two parties work in unison to that end." I never realised just how far that went.
So the false image of America as a leading example of freedom and democracy is actually a sham. Your in fact a third world banana republic , socialist dictatorship.
Or do you think I am being to harsh?

[Vacuum]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Can I just say thank you to all who answered , this thread has been a real learning curve for me. Although I knew that "You're voting for the system. The two parties work in unison to that end." I never realised just how far that went. So the false image of America as a leading example of freedom and democracy is actually a sham. Your in fact a third world banana republic , socialist dictatorship. Or do you think I am being to harsh?

Explain exactly how America is a socialist dictatorship...?

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Vacuum Explain exactly how America is a socialist dictatorship...?

Took that from another thread where Voluntary said it was a socialist system, and as yet no one has disagreed with him, and from this thread where most of you seem to agree that the political system is no longer in the hands of the people.

[Vacuum]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Took that from another thread where Voluntary said it was a socialist system, and as yet no one has disagreed with him, and from this thread where most of you seem to agree that the political system is no longer in the hands of the people.

It hasn't slipped far enough away to cause me any concern.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Vacuum It hasn't slipped far enough away to cause me any concern.

Hasn't it?
Your country is a lie, a sham , a fake.
Your vaunted " a country by the people , for the people." is a joke.
And this doesn't concern or worry you?

[Vacuum]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Hasn't it? Your country is a lie, a sham , a fake. Your vaunted " a country by the people , for the people." is a joke. And this doesn't concern or worry you?

Those are extreme exaggerations.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Vacuum Those are extreme exaggerations.

I did ask if I was being harsh.
But an extreme exaggeration, no, I don't think so.
There seems to be a consensus that voting in your political system is just a waste of time.
That you have a political two horse party system with no discernable difference between the two.
That the party "Voted" (for want of a better word) in does not represent the views of the people.
In other words although you claim to the world that yours is a fair and democratic system the reality is that the people have been given no choice and no way of exercising that choice even if there was one.

[Vacuum]

Quote by: SoylentGreen I did ask if I was being harsh. But an extreme exaggeration, no, I don't think so. There seems to be a consensus that voting in your political system is just a waste of time. That you have a political two horse party system with no discernable difference between the two. That the party "Voted" (for want of a better word) in does not represent the views of the people. In other words although you claim to the world that yours is a fair and democratic system the reality is that the people have been given no choice and no way of exercising that choice even if there was one.

Our government is the most effective in history.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Hurt Uh, don't presidents require a minimum amount of votes regardless of what's the majority or minority? There's no such option in your analogy..

Well, Presidential candidates require a minimum amount of votes to be elected: 11.

One vote in each of the 11 most populous states in the U.S. (and none for your opponents in those states) would secure a candidate 271 electors, 1 over the 270 needed to win the presidency.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Vacuum Our government is the most effective in history.

Begs the question . As what?

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Well, Presidential candidates require a minimum amount of votes to be elected: 11. One vote in each of the 11 most populous states in the U.S. (and none for your opponents in those states) would secure a candidate 271 electors, 1 over the 270 needed to win the presidency.

So the minimum requirement theoretically is that 11 people can get a president in power?

[maximdewinter]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Thus spoke Voluntary. But to be fair if its true that only 64% of the american people voted in the last presidential elections, US Census Press Releases then there is a possibility that Voluntary is not the only american on volconvo who does not vote. So for all of you. 1. Because if you do not exercise your right to vote then your political opinions are nothing more than so much hot air. 2. In a country where a president can be elected with only 64% of the voters then not voting is not "making a statement" it's just being ignored. 3. When Bush or any president makes one of there usual bad decisions you can't say "not my fault I didn't vote for him", You didn't vote so your as much to blame for him being there as those who voted for him. 4. There are more effective ways of making political changes than sticking your head in the sand and refusing to participate in your one chance to make a difference..

There are other races besides the presidential one. ...like senatorial, state governor, judges, town council, school boardetc. and these can have a direct effect on the way you live. I hope the subject here is not abstaining from voting in elections at every level. I'll be voting this Tuesday on our town school budget which is going up 6% and it's all going to administrator's salaries which are $ 100K+ anyway. I can't wait to shut these twits down.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: Vacuum Well, I obviously feel it is important for everyone to vote, so we have the perspectives of everyone in our nation.

In "our nation" is empty rhetoric. Describe a nation. What is "it"?

And the Jews did not have a choice. You do.

The Jews did have a choice. Many jews exercised their right to freedom by refusing to be gassed and burned. Others did not.

In no way am I trying to tell you to leave, because I think that the opposition of people like you are what keeps the country the way it is, as far as freedom goes.

Either we have an intelligent kid on our hands or a burgeoning politician. Regardless, I RESPECT your decision to let me freely express myself.

The truth is, freedom and expression stem from the individual. The state tries to curb these concepts and amend them the best way "it" see fits.

Describe "it".