World Government

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Voluntary No. I realize my mistake. Regardless, I am curious on why the EU is a good example of world governance compared to.....every other form of government..

Good in this case is a relative term. I mean good as it is a better example than say, Hitler winning and taking over the whole world.

If I had to give an example of world government I would choose the E.U over something like the U.N. which is a complete mess.

DominoI'm not sure why a world government would be equated with minimal democracy or constricting laws.

Again look to the E.U. an example would be the naming of food. They spent months arguing over who had the right to name there wine champaign, now only the french of a certain area that grow the grapes have that right , the rest just sell sparkling wine.
Bureaucracy at it's most magnificence.

[Domino]

Again look to the E.U. an example would be the naming of food. They spent months arguing over who had the right to name there wine champaign, now only the french of a certain area that grow the grapes have that right , the rest just sell sparkling wine. Bureaucracy at it's most magnificence.

It's not like they just up and decided to do this. This was the bureaucracy responding to a grievance of French wineries, which is exactly what it was supposed to do. You may disagree with the decision, but I see no reason to complain about the process that led to it. Unless you wish to do away with civil suits, this is what government is for.

Of course, I know little about the specific implementation of the EU bureaucracy: it may be that it lacks efficiency, and could use improvement. Even so, it sounds like it's getting the job done.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme What would be wrong with a world government? If we hypothetically accepted it has worked, some benefits would include: Great economy... all workers at a consistent and fair minimum wage, nobody going elsewhere to build factories. No wars... aside from the secret police force we would need to fight the underground resistance, there would be no real wars. (assuming people have accepted the world government) Science improvements... no one would fear what they released to society, and that sharing of knowledge would be able to spread much faster, along with greater overall government spending for studies. Better crime fighting...we've just established a secret police force ( ), but also prisons would be better than the ones in China or some place. More well equipped police force, as all cops would have the best technology at hand. There is a possibility we may lose the capitalist system but probably still have world-wide democracy, no?

Democracy on that scale would be unfeasible in the extreme, the only government I see being efficient enough to govern the earth is some sort of absolute rule, and even then it would be very inefficient. Plus, Secret police having to put down resistance groups hints at a lack of democracy, no?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Thanatos The U.N. needs to make it economically important to be a member. Right now its basically a gigantic U.S. sock puppet because its economically important to be friends with the richest nation in the world, and we have veto power. It should be restructured to be more democratic and offer common currency.

Never happen, especially when some nations are happily seeing the dollar lose value. The U.N. is a tool of power, the security council set up insures that anyway, and when you need a U.S., Russia, China or big european country to back you to take any action that involves military force, you're guaranteed to be a puppet. Such an organization can never be democratic as long as its enforcers have it in their interest to keep it undemocratic.

[jsmill]

i think what is wrong here is that everyone thinks that all the world's governments are doing all right...when this is obviously not the case
more than 1 billion live w/ less than 1 dollar a day, we have constant warfare (israel...), unregulated genocide (darfur, congo), and oppressive governments (Myanmar's reaction, China, Cuba, etc.)

also..why would it be unfeasible, everyone seems to dismiss it without actually saying why..evidence people?

[SoylentGreen]

Domino Of course, I know little about the specific implementation of the EU bureaucracy: it may be that it lacks efficiency, and could use improvement. Even so, it sounds like it's getting the job done.

But it is an example of restricting laws. Whether the E.U. is good for europe or not is still to be decided, but for the most part I agree that they do seem to be getting the job done. Of course depending on who you talk to.

[GSM:Xtreme]

I am thinking the most likely way to gain world government would be how Napoleon and Hitler both almost achieved it: through bloodshed, terror, dictatorship and war. And once those dictators got world power (assuming the US or Russia or China or whomever doesn't blow them to smithereens with their nukes), I doubt they would ever give that power up to start a democracy.

So no, I believe it is folly and an impossible idea.

[lsbskins1]

The idea is not "wrong", the problem is in fesabilty given the current state of human desire for the idea. People feel more "English" than "human". But I agree that the "evolutionary ideal" would be one world standard for indivudual rights. Of course, when you consider this, you also do have to consider the problem that univeral sytems are ripe for universal exploitation. How would you safe-guard against the "Hitler" only having to subvert one system? Diversity drives innovation and progress. The ultimate question is really what is the best way to put an end to the exploitation of one group of humans for the selfish ends of another group?

[Domino]

But it is an example of restricting laws.

Can you name a law that doesn't restrict?

A subject on which I've been considering starting a thread, but which is somewhat related to this: it is no gift to bring democracy to a people who are not ready or willing to fight to keep it.

[Dagda]

[QUOTEi think what is wrong here is that everyone thinks that all the world's governments are doing all right...when this is obviously not the case
][/quote]

If small governments arn't working what makes you think a larger one will somehow rid the ineficiency of governments?

Myanmar's reaction, China, Cuba, etc.)

Why put Cuba? When placed next to other regimes( Sudi Arabia, Haiti, DR of Congo, Syria, North Korea etc.) it is a relitivly nice place to live with better medical and social care than pretty much the whole of Africa, South and Central America, Asia, large parts of Europe and huge areas in the US.

[jsmill]

yes you're absolutely right thbat cuba is much better than others
they just slipped my mind...

but i think one government would be able to get rid of two things for sure: tyranny and war. War is an obvious problem and military budgets consume many countries (i.e. North Korea), while one government with sufficient term limits and campaigning laws would destroy the regimes of the life long rulers.


also i don't think napoleon or hitler could subvert the government if we had a system of checks and balances, and a more powerful general populace...
i don't know what this would look like though

[jsmill]

Why put Cuba? When placed next to other regimes ... huge areas in the US.

Like who? where?
(please don't say bush)

[xyzer]

Unfortunately(or is fortunately) the world consists of hundreds, if not thousands of languages, customs, mores, religions,economies, climates, belief systems, living conditions, laws, physical characteristics etc.(not to omit time shaped opinions? The sheer enormity of unifying such a mass of difference is mind boggling. Look at Iraq, the USA and sensible people can't even unify three major factions living in one country under similar conditions and speaking the same language?
This even though leaders of each faction profess to want unity in the one country. Saddam was successful in unifying Iraq only by using an iron fist, gassing the Kurds, filling the swamps and generallu sowing terror in the populace?

[SoylentGreen]

Domino Can you name a law that doesn't restrict?

Every new layer of government you create , creates it's own laws, ergo more laws , more restriction.
I would of thought that obvious to someone living in a country thats over governed

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: GSM:Xtreme I am thinking the most likely way to gain world government would be how Napoleon and Hitler both almost achieved it: through bloodshed, terror, dictatorship and war. And once those dictators got world power (assuming the US or Russia or China or whomever doesn't blow them to smithereens with their nukes), I doubt they would ever give that power up to start a democracy. So no, I believe it is folly and an impossible idea.

Napoleon and even Hitler never were so arrogant to believe they could rule the world, they really just wanted Europe. I don't think any one country could be able to take on the world in the way Napoleonic France did, the unique combination of being one of the only highly populated, industrialized and centralized country able to devote its entire force in the European theater, as well as France's advantage of having a well motivated and mostly patriotic society as a result of revolutionary ideals, and an efficient, powerful, and singularly led army. Napoleon would not have had the same impact he had in the age that bears his name, because while states could be readily absorbed by French armies once Napoleon had destroyed the rival armies because of the presence in Europe of populations who by their conditions were mostly non-nationalistic and even hopeful of the opportunities the French conquest offered them. Hitler would find out a nearly a century and a half later that the nationalism that Napoleon brought about led to much less easily controlled populaces. Plus, Europe is much more homogeneous in culture than the entire world. France taking over rule of Spain is quite different from their taking over China or a Middle eastern country, the resistance would be that much more.

[Dagda]

Like who? where?

Cuba enjoys higher literecy rates(near 100%), better health and longer sickness and maternity/paternity leave than many of the poorer areas of the US such as Missisipi, Alabama, West Virginia etc. This is despite being under blockade for the better part of 50 years.

Personaly I think this is a great achivement the Cubans have made considering that most of the Central American Republics who have enjoyed the USA's special brand of 'help' are in such a state. America have been hell bent on obliterating Cuba but they have done far better than the USA's American allies.

[xyzer]

This is amusing?

Personally I think this is a great achievement the Cubans have made considering that most of the Central American Republics who have enjoyed the USA's special brand of 'help' are in such a state. America have been hell bent on obliterating Cuba but they have done far better than the USA's American allies.

Whose word are you taking for this great educational achievement? The Cuban government which is certainly not very reliable asnd certainly propagandizes.? The country is destitute, particularly since Russia quit subsidizing it? The well educated? people of Cuba keep leaving in droves which attests to the poverty and squalot they are forced to endure? The country is a great example of a two class society. Haves and many more have nots. The high level of educational achievement doesn't help them a bit? They have little if any skilled industry to work in? Do they get to choose their leaders?
The biggest joke of all is...Do you think if the USA wanted to obliterate Cuba,(was hell bent on it) it couldn't or wouldn't have? It just embargoed the place and watched it wither.
What sort of help do you want the USA to give any other nation? Isn't trade enough?

[Voluntary]

Why do people need to be governed; either from a divinity or a democracy?

[cardiff_giant]

Quote by: Voluntary No. I realize my mistake. Regardless, I am curious on why the EU is a good example of world governance compared to.....every other form of government..

Really the EU is the only 'close' example to a total world government because its the union of many sovereign nations; rather than independent nations dictating their own economic policies, etc.

A world government though? Possible, "borders were made by man, and destroyed by man" - Adolf H. But that would be the only strategy to achieve it. A world war would be replaced by "civil wars", and would have to be run by a dominant political system. It certainly would not be run by democracy, let's be realistic (on a completely unrealistic situation!), but would be highly capitalistic; low-taxes, regional social programs. Like a dominant economic nation like the US (or rather the US circa 2000) would contribute tax dollars to help build infrastructure in the sudan, etc.!

[Dagda]

Whose word are you taking for this great educational achievement? The Cuban government which is certainly not very reliable asnd certainly propagandizes.? The country is destitute, particularly since Russia quit subsidizing it? The well educated? people of Cuba keep leaving in droves which attests to the poverty and squalot they are forced to endure? The country is a great example of a two class society. Haves and many more have nots. The high level of educational achievement doesn't help them a bit? They have little if any skilled industry to work in? Do they get to choose their leaders? The biggest joke of all is...Do you think if the USA wanted to obliterate Cuba,(was hell bent on it) it couldn't or wouldn't have? It just embargoed the place and watched it wither. What sort of help do you want the USA to give any other nation? Isn't trade enough?

I never said Cuba was perfect, far from it. But under the new administration of Raul Castro it is slowly eradicating the two teir system, little bit by little bit.
The way you go on, though, you'd think the USA's allies have done so much better. The only reason Cuba is destitute is because of the trade barrier put in place by the US for no other reason than there paranoia about communism.
However, in comparrison to the allies of America, they are doing brilliantly. Cubans do not enjoy democracy, which is a pitty but El Salvador, Haiti, Honduras etc do and Cuba is far more stable and pleasent to live in.

The country is a great example of a two class society.

Hate to break your bubble but can you name a country that isn't? Cuba has far less disparity when it comes to there citizens than, say the UK.