World Government

[Dagda]

The country is a great example of a two class society.

I hate to burst your bubble, but can you name a country that isn't? As far as it goes, Cuba has far less disparity between the populace than say the UK.
You say it is destitute but one of the few reasons for this is the US blockade put on for no better reason than paranoia about there political ideology.
Yess Cuba can't vote for its leaders, which is a pitty, but the US allies of Haiti, Honduras, El Salvadot etc can and I know where I would rather live. Certianly not with the right wing death sqauds and poverty of the allied countries.

[Dagda]

I wonder what happened there.

[xyzer]

I hate to burst your bubble, but can you name a country that isn't

Yes.... the one I live in! There is a constitutional provision for "equality under the law". thus we see government officials, business tycoons and even politicians subject to the laws. A President impeached for perjury, several congressmen under indictment, business tycoons(Enron+) tried for fraud,etc. Do you think that ever occurred under Casto or is occuring under his brother? There is evidenc of political prisoners, held without trial for long periods in Cuba under the Castro regime. Many fled the oppressive regime. Check the Cuban re,ated population of Florida for figures? Did you ever read of any Cuban official or political leader so indicted or tried for law violations?
A single class society is not one that guarantees equality of income but IMNSHO is one which guarantees quality and fairness of treatment for all its citizens.A rule of law equally applicable for all.
Im not so sure we can't compare Cuba with Zambia Dagda? Mugabe resisted or rigged elections to stay in power. When he lost he stayed in power along with his untouchable followers. So did Castro, so has his brother Raul!
The crap that they put out about great medical and educational care is just that. A smoke screen to cover up evil and oppressive rule.

[Matt W]

Zimbabwe, xyzer. Get your facts straight.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Dagda How do you propose a world government will be achived? There is no way country leaders would give up there power without a fight.

By your key phrase "with a fight."

[GHook93]

At this point in human history, one government is impossible! There would have to be some very chaotic event (aka global nuclear war) which changes the minds and desires of humans!

[Squeaky Wheels]

Quote by: Voluntary Why do people need to be governed; either from a divinity or a democracy?

Because otherwise the strong prey on the weak. Groups like the Mafia or Al Quaeda take over in places where there is little government authority.

Wouldn't it be nice if it were simply illegal for Iran to produce nuclear weapons? Of for someone like Saddam Hussein or Kim Jong Il to be in power in the first place?

[Thanatos]

Quote by: xyzer Yes.... the one I live in! There is a constitutional provision for "equality under the law". thus we see government officials, business tycoons and even politicians subject to the laws. A President impeached for perjury, several congressmen under indictment, business tycoons(Enron+) tried for fraud,etc. Do you think that ever occurred under Casto or is occuring under his brother? There is evidenc of political prisoners, held without trial for long periods in Cuba under the Castro regime. Many fled the oppressive regime. Check the Cuban re,ated population of Florida for figures? Did you ever read of any Cuban official or political leader so indicted or tried for law violations? A single class society is not one that guarantees equality of income but IMNSHO is one which guarantees quality and fairness of treatment for all its citizens.A rule of law equally applicable for all. Im not so sure we can't compare Cuba with Zambia Dagda? Mugabe resisted or rigged elections to stay in power. When he lost he stayed in power along with his untouchable followers. So did Castro, so has his brother Raul! The crap that they put out about great medical and educational care is just that. A smoke screen to cover up evil and oppressive rule.

Xyler, I don't know whether to love or hate you. They say belly laughs are good for me so I suppose its the former.


Look around you. Some nations have economic prosperity, some have small class divisions, and most important of all some have both. The U.S. is good but its not the best it can ever possibly be. Dream.

[The Dunedan]

See, here's the problem with world Gov't.

How well do you think the Brits would take it, being outvoted at every turn by PAKISTAN?! Imagine your typical Football Firm yobbo, say some of the lads from the Red Army, getting the news that the "Pakis" had voted to disallow racist jokes.

That right there tells you everything you need to know about world government. Won't work, can't work, and shouldn't be allowed to work, full stop.

[Dagda]

There is evidenc of political prisoners, held without trial for long periods in Cuba under the Castro regime.

Gauntanomo Bay is a good example of this... no, wait thats American.

You say that the USA is not a 2 system society in the law and theareticly you are right. However, in practice, it does not quite work like that. In a case between a rich Hollywood celebrity and the poor West Virginian unemployed worker 99 times out of 100 the celebrity would win.

Anyway, thats not what I was talking about when I said a 2 teir system. I was thinking of the economic diffrences between peoples. For instance, in America it is very unlikley that an uninsured boy with a broken arm will be seen. This is evidence of a 2 tier system.

The irony is, of course, that the American constitution is one of the first practical socialist documents of the modern era and yet, America as a country is completly paranoid about reds under the bed.

[Dagda]

[quote]By your key phrase "with a fight."[."/QUOTE]

Humans are born to war and long for violence. A human is not complete unless they are either witnissing or participating in a form of conflict, so I suppose it is possible to fight for a world government.

[xyzer]

Thanatos remarks..

Look around you. Some nations have economic prosperity, some have small class divisions, and most important of all some have both. The U.S. is good but its not the best it can ever possibly be. Dream.

Dont you get it? We are not talking about political structure or prosperity, we are talking about equal opportunity and protection of law? Thats what deliniates the class structure.


Dagda. Besides trying to generalize from a hypothetical case or two (what you bet would happen) you fail to address the issue of those in Guantanamo who are prisoners taken in a war and not identified as US citizens? The US Consitution defines citizenship and the equal treatment of itscitizens. POWs are not citizens.
The Geneva Convention provides that enemy POWs taken in the war can be held until the war is over? It also applies to signatory nations and none of these fighters claim a national allegience? Many problems here, I know. Many of these POWs claim allegiance to a belief system(Islam) rather than a country? What do you do with them in this curious situation? When Bush proposed trial by Military Tribunals he was rejected and so we have the problem at GTMO?
This may be an oversimplification of some cases but I think it hits the point of why these people have been held so long. We are worrying about the rights of non citizens captured in a global battle against renegades fighting for their religious beliefs and not any specific country??

[xyzer]

Matt, thanks for the correction.

Zimbabwe, xyzer. Get your facts straight

[Dagda]

Xyzer, refering to the inmates of GB as POW's refers they were fighting in a war. Many are not. Many are innocent civilians who happen to be muslim. For instance, there was a Brittish citizen who was accused of going to a training camp in Pakistan. There was evidence which put him in a resturent in East London at the time and the convicting evidence was shaky at best. It took him 3 years to be shown innocent and be set free.

[Squeaky Wheels]

Quote by: The Dunedan See, here's the problem with world Gov't. How well do you think the Brits would take it, being outvoted at every turn by PAKISTAN?! Imagine your typical Football Firm yobbo, say some of the lads from the Red Army, getting the news that the "Pakis" had voted to disallow racist jokes. That right there tells you everything you need to know about world government. Won't work, can't work, and shouldn't be allowed to work, full stop.

Then let's have no more complaints about terrorism or nuclear-armed dictatorships. This is the world we've chosen.

Actually, I think it's interesting that more people favor destroying the entire world with nuclear weapons because they think that the world will then be miraculously remade than favor a one-world government.

What my actual position is, tho, is to divide the world up into a number of REGIONAL FEDERATIONS:
Europe
Sub-Saharan Africa
The Islamic World
Latin America
East Asia

The US, China, Russia, and India are large enough to go it alone (the US is already a regional federation).

[Technosoul]

Quote by: jsmill What would be wrong with a world government? I have an idea of a good working one but tell me what you think it should be like and what challenges it would face. Should it even exist? J.S. Mill (read On Liberty)

It ain't the meat it's the motion that makes papa wanna rock.

Bigger is not always better.

It is the harmonic rythem that matters in anykind of union. Be it locally or worldly. Good government should be like good sex.

Figure that one out and you are on your way to the right solution.

[xyzer]

Dagda!

Xyzer, refering to the inmates of GB as POW's refers they were fighting in a war. Many are not. Many are innocent civilians who happen to be muslim. For instance, there was a Brittish citizen who was accused of going to a training camp in Pakistan. There was evidence which put him in a resturent in East London at the time and the convicting evidence was shaky at best. It took him 3 years to be shown innocent and be set free.

Quit generalizing off a few specifics! Its illogical and your tall tale even if true is only one example. You use the term "many". How many, I ask? Do you have some evidence of just how many were so called convicted...Hell they haven't figured out how or where to try any of them? Dont you realize the US considers itself at war with terrorists? The only?evidence? heard has been the statements of lawyers(not under oath) qand outside a courtroom. These guys lie on behalf of their clients, didn't you know that?

Suggestion.. read a book on logic or Take a class in logic! Then learn the difference between rumor, innuendo and fact? The internet and the press is filled with conspiracy tales and crazy opinions..use logic in your intrepretations?

[Dagda]

Xyzer, you talk of proof but you are yet to show me any. I have given you a true example but of course I do not have statistics on GB as it is a secret facility. Like every military base, it is classified info. Now, you show me proof that detention without trial is justifiable and that terrorism is as large a threat as scaremongerers suggest.

Also, what is up with all the question marks in your posts?

[Dagda]

What my actual position is, tho, is to divide the world up into a number of REGIONAL FEDERATIONS: Europe Sub-Saharan Africa The Islamic World Latin America East Asia The US, China, Russia, and India are large enough to go it alone (the US is already a regional federation).

This is a good way to plan a world government, through devolution. This would actully ride the World Government of its major draw back-difficulty in managing such a large area.
I would like to add though that the US is a regional federation but so is India and ,to a lesser extent, so to is Russia and China.

[xyzer]

It may be a silly but when I think of this notion...(the world would be a better place if everybody had the same laws, I wonder?

This is a good way to plan a world government, through devolution. This would actully ride the World Government of its major draw back-difficulty in managing such a large area. I would like to add though that the US is a regional federation but so is India and ,to a lesser extent, so to is Russia and China.

I think of China having to allow cows to wander the streets of Hong Kong as they do in India. People to freely shave, wash and dump refuse into to the Mississippi River as the do in Bangkok. Inheritance laws in the US being changed to favor the oldest son. Allowing 3 or more people to ride one bycycle on major city streets.etc.I have to wonder at just what the devolution process would consist of because of the diverse needs, economic situations, customs , mores and the like among the 6 billion or so peope now existent?
Suggest its impractical. e.g. who runs the apparatus?