The US economy solution

[thx1138]

Quote by: Technosoul One area for creating more jobs here in America is in the fields of alternative energy because the demand for that is growing larger everyday with the rise in prices for our current sources, and due to the hazards of polution. To upstart new busniesses that do not need regulating and will not need to move out of the country for that reason, with inventive and creative new methodologies to get things done. Once we effect affordable health insurance we will have more people taking advantage of medical services and that will create more jobs for more doctors, nurses, and hospital staff workers, and related businesses and so that would help out with our local economy. We should encourage more organic farming so that other countries want our exported produce, because many countries do not want our genetic products or those where additives are in the food stuff. We need to downsize our military expendatures and focus on only the important areas where homeland security is acturally at stake. Our schools are still having their budgets cut, we should have more attention given to that area because education is also one of our main "exports" even if people come to our collages here to learn. Movies and music is important because they can hire a lot of workers and because those products are sold world wide, we need to give that industry more freedom to operate with less permits and redtape, We need a market place economy that is based on the average income and not based mostly on credit cards and loans. If we set a rule where you must have a high income to get credit or loans then lower and middle class people would not go into debt over their heads and loose everything, that would force sales people to market things at rates that fit a family budget or else prepare to sell only a few things to the weathy 20 percent. If a company wants to move outside of America to hire cheap labor elsewhere they should be forced to pay their fomer employees a decent wage for at least six months so they can find another simular paying job elsewhere. If they do not do that then all their imports to the USA should be banned from entering our boarders. Time to get tuff on outsources. Now farmers cannot depend on citizens to pick stawberries at a reasonable price and so I am not totally agenst migrant workers, but they should not be hired by construction companies or other nomally good paying jobs that citizens would happy to do. Laws should protect our citizen work force and not just to make things easy for the owners of a business. The heart pumps blood to all areas of the body but it the blood does not recycle back to the heart then it stops, our economy is having a bit of a heart attack because money spent by citizens is not recycled back into the enconomy for the citizens. The rich keep the money in a bank account without using it to create more jobs and so forth. Thus, the heart of America, the average worker, get's stopped dead in their tracks. The money must flow around and around for our system to work properly. Big busnesses must come to undertand that if we want a healthy economy for every part of the citizenship, if they cannot see that logic then tax them more and use the tax money to boost the economy with governmentally funded jobs.

I agree with most of what you list here, but I think that big busness is not easily control within one countries borders. Does big busness really care about the citizens of one country? Could the U.S. government control trade with China or is China in control of the process?

[Technosoul]

Quote by: thx1138 I agree with most of what you list here, but I think that big busness is not easily control within one countries borders. Does big busness really care about the citizens of one country? Could the U.S. government control trade with China or is China in control of the process?

Right now China is in control with their "affordable work force and lack for interest in regulation for safty and polution".

To compete with that we would have to distroy America with polution and force people to work for a bowl of rice a day. We must not compete in that way and must find a way to liberate our self from that manner of competition, by being smart enough to become whole and complete within our own boarders as much as possible, like we used to be.

Now total isolation is perhaps not the answer ether, as they do that in North Korea and that system is not working for them, partly because their govenment puts too much focus on taking pride in a large military, they have the 4th largest military in the world (people wise).

The objective for a sound America is not just to secure that big business can get bigger and richer, but to insure that the whole economy gets stronger and that our quality of life improves - here in our country, not globally.

We have exported jobs to India, Mexico, China and other asian countries, and yet that charity has not improved the fate of most of the people in those countries. It was only useful to the business owners and a few governmental leaders in those countries. We are thusly allowing big business to become our cruel dictators and risking our own democracy where freedom and liberty is getting promoted in status by hard work as an option to overcome poverty and other risk factors.

That is enforced charity where we are being forced to give up our jobs so people in China can have jobs. Driving us under the thumb of big business dictators and their brand of socialism and welfare, which welfare is not very compassionate at all, but is more of a deception done in the name of their so called "right of property". But it is the American work force that is on the auction block and we are being sold out via outsourcing. Our jobs are sold to the contractor who can offer the lowest bid, and that is not your local union. Who the hell put a for sale sign on our jobs and why should we have any respect for those "conservative rights" that big business is claiming?

I wanted to go into business with my webpage, any many other people signed up for the same thing, most of them sell on e-bay. But check out the items on the webpage, all those items are made in China (with a few rare exceptions, none of them are made in the USA).

www.giftsndcore.com.

Acturally my son has the webpage and not me, none the less I see no way to sell only "made in America" products anymore, because suddenly they are no longer being made in America because our union workers cannnot compete with China. Our own unemployed people should be making all that stuff, and I see no way to make that happen other then via politics and our government, once they get smart enough to get on our side, and on the side of the will of the people. Our government should be on our side, on the side of this 80 percent who are the average workers and consumers, that is why we elect them and pay taxes, to get properly represented and to protect us from this alien invasion of our economy and citizenship, this take over. But we cannot base our internal competition on what people get paid globally, otherwise we might as well advoate slavery like George Washington did.

We must insitute a workable plan that is good for the mainstream here in the USA.

[Gods_Mercenary]

We must not compete in that way and must find a way to liberate our self from that manner of competition, by being smart enough to become whole and complete within our own boarders as much as possible, like we used to be.

We were never whole and complete in our borders, but we could always sart a world war to destroy our competitions' economies and leave ours jumpstarted. That's what gave us the prosperity of the 20's and 50's

[GHook93]

Quote by: Technosoul Right now China is in control with their "affordable work force and lack for interest in regulation for safty and polution". To compete with that we would have to distroy America with polution and force people to work for a bowl of rice a day. We must not compete in that way and must find a way to liberate our self from that manner of competition, by being smart enough to become whole and complete within our own boarders as much as possible, like we used to be.

No! That is just want alternative that isn't plausible. The better way is to reduce corporation taxation to $0 (the only way to do this is the fair tax), reduce over-bearing regulations, put more money in alternative fuels and cut any one-sided trade agreements and mirror any trade restrictions that a country puts on us.

Now total isolation is perhaps not the answer ether, as they do that in North Korea and that system is not working for them, partly because their govenment puts too much focus on taking pride in a large military, they have the 4th largest military in the world (people wise).

Correct NK is not who we should model after!

The objective for a sound America is not just to secure that big business can get bigger and richer, but to insure that the whole economy gets stronger and that our quality of life improves - here in our country, not globally.

That is a paradox. The way for America's economy to get stronger is for the Corporations to be prosperous and making money. If corporations are producing more and making more money they hire more people. If there are more competing corporations state side then they give US workers more of an ability to negotiate their wages! See if the government imposes too much on American corporations they LEAVE and take jobs with them. The remaining ones have a surplus of qualified employees to pick from, hence they don't have to pay them as much.

Unless as you put it that we want to sacrifice workers safety and the environment, as China, India and Mexico do (which I don't think we could effectively compete even if with did), then we have to beat them at a different game. The game is the fair tax, aka $0 taxation on American Corporations!

It is such a perfect fit!

We have exported jobs to India, Mexico, China and other asian countries, and yet that charity has not improved the fate of most of the people in those countries.

That is simply not true! I read an article in the Wall Street Journal a while back about the rapidly growing Chinese economy. The Indians that work in American companies make a good living in India. I have a few customer that moved their call centers to Mexico. Corporations that need education Mexicans are creating a growing middle class in Mexico!

[Derek Wolff]

when I lived in the U.S. had mind set of not really caring to much if I did not have a large saving or not. Is that true for most of you on this board living in the U.S.? After I married a Japanese my thinking changed, most Japanese think it's very important to save. Is that the answer to US economy problem? you are told to go and spend (after 9-11 the answer from Bush was go out and spend)... What would happen if people started saving more and spending (or using credit) less?

I think that has more to do with age and maturity in the US, or possibly just rationally thinking. A lot of people though cannot save, they are living pay check to pay check and barely scrapping by. Myself included.

Your small dude who sits underneath the desk and draws the pictures with charcoal on peices of slate has a hand cramp?

I had to fire him. He became obsessed with boobies (google included) and he wouldn't stop drawing them!

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary We were never whole and complete in our borders, but we could always sart a world war to destroy our competitions' economies and leave ours jumpstarted. That's what gave us the prosperity of the 20's and 50's

What you said is not correct, we did not jump start a war with Hitler or Japan or North Korea to jumpstart our economy, not Viet Nam for that matter ( what threat did Viet Nam represent concerning the economy?).

The short surge in the 1950s was because we were producing a lot of new items like washing machines, kitchen gadgets that were electric, cars that everyone could afford, and countless things like that. We imported nor exported much of those items. And we had the space race to land on the moon and contracts to build better airplanes such as jets and public airliners. And Nixon treaty with China was signed late in the 50s with no impact until Japan recovered and started to import stuff here.

Some wars can be viewed as supportive of American interests economically, especially those in South America under Reagan/Bush Sr.
Which was good for the mega businesses of flowers.

One reason the 1950s was such a surge is because we were only having a cold war with the USSR but no real time physical wars of any great cost to us.

[Gods_Mercenary]

No but we could start a war, and the world wars were what gave us our eras of prosperity and superpower status. Gadgets are nice, but we had no foreign competition and unlimited markets.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary No but we could start a war, and the world wars were what gave us our eras of prosperity and superpower status. Gadgets are nice, but we had no foreign competition and unlimited markets.

Our super power status was a big illusion because nuclear wars would be totally self distructive. Drafting nearly all our young men to go to war to get killed, mentally or phyically injured just to boost the economics of the industural military complex is the most stupid idea anyone can advocate. Take our recent example with Viet Nam and check out all the Vets living homeless like under bridges and unable to work or to afford housing, and who cannnot even get proper treatment at a Vet hospital. Without the draft we get failures like Iraq which was totally under-staffed. And what good did it do to have a draft in for the Nam war? We still counld not determine a win and had to bow out.

Your Superpower days are over and past, that idea is now obsolete. Everyone in the world knows it but a few such as your self.

Gadgets is not what I was mainly mentioning in my post and your attempt to downplay my remarks is a neat trick but of no practical interest. The sudden industry and production of washing machines and dryers, electric "ice boxes", radio and TV sets, stereo record players and the relatred music industry, cars and motor bikes, tools and shop equipment, golf glubs, computers, and yes, toasters, microwave ovens, phones, tape recorders, office machines, CB equipment, technology that advanced the movie industry, the jukeboxes, sporting and camping equipment, Bar B Q stuff. the invention of showers and other bathroom divices, fast food resturants. The 1950s were booming with all kinds of new things, like doors that automatically open at a supermarket. The Gadget Age and local production of those items is what boosted our economy, following the war and during a time of relative peace.

The Gadget industry is still very much alive only we now get them from overseas and that is not helping our economy because it lowers the amount of working and productive citizens right here.

We have reached a stage where objects of material construction that are being imported across our boarders are of a greater threat then those people who walk across form Mexico. We need to think of ways to secure our boarders from the invasion of forien products and then make them our self, to insure also better quality and "no lead paint" on those Barbie Dolls. This is not just science fiction, the machines are coming and our so are the job snatchers. We must defend our self.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I never said we could attain superpower status, but that it would jump start our economy. And if you don't think our prosperity was almost totally due to the destruction wtought on the rest of the world by the two biggest wars, and instead due to a relatively small impact of refrigerators and T.V.s, the production and consumption of which were only made possible in the industrial prosperity directly caused by the aftermath of the wars, consult a historian. And I never said anything about the Vietnam era or even power in general, just that, if you want a good industrial economy, it helps to have all the competition taken out.

[grandpa]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

Part of Clinton's plan follows:

Investing $10 billion in extending and broadening unemployment insurance for those who are struggling to find work: Senator Clinton is calling for stepped up assistance for those who have lost their jobs and are searching for work while trying to provide for their families. By strengthening our unemployment insurance program and extending unemployment insurance for workers who are laid off for extended periods, these efforts will empower more Americans to reenter the labor market in good-paying jobs. HillaryClinton.com - Media Release

Is it the absolute worst way to spend billions of dollars? I think not.
As someone who was laid off a few months back and who did not receive any unemployment, I think this is an important issue.

Grandpa h.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I think the money could be better spent helping people with education, so that they're not in the low paying, likely to be layed off jobs in the first place.

[maximdewinter]

Quote by: Derek Wolff I don't believe I need to inform you of the current state of the US economy. What possible solutions could there be? I don't want to hear any political mud-slinging or baseless opinions in this debate. I would like to hear informed responses, as this is an important issue that should be treated with logic. Frankly, I have not heard any public discussion on this issue, and I believe it should be said some where.

Hello all.

I think that historically, healthy economies have had a stable currency, a good savings rate, low taxes--both personal and corporate, a favorable balance of trade and an excellent educational infrastructure with a strong work ethic. In other words we have some problems.

Right now I would say that the number one problem is that the dollar's value is in a free fall and we are doing nothing to support it. I believe that the problem has been long term--massive debt which most other countries think is going to be monetized by our Fed, so they are dumping the greenbacks further depressing the price. The solution to that one I'm afraid is going to be long term and painful.

[Century 25]

Quote by: Derek Wolff I don't believe I need to inform you of the current state of the US economy. What possible solutions could there be? I don't want to hear any political mud-slinging or baseless opinions in this debate. I would like to hear informed responses, as this is an important issue that should be treated with logic. Frankly, I have not heard any public discussion on this issue, and I believe it should be said some where. I do not have an opinion on this issue, I do not have the knowledge. I hope this is a good change compared to the other whimsical none-sense we get a lot here.

Well.. how do you stop a train wreck in progress..? If you are in the front part of the train, you might already be ruined. Those further back may be able to brace themselves & hope for the best. As always, the luckiest or best $$$ prepared will "survive" - and those (very few) with the golden parachute will "eject" and become expat's.. gone with the sun, possibly to Dubai or nearby: The World

The south Pacific is good also..

As for this country.. it is like a stage IV cancer patient. Or Humpty-Dumpty. No way to "fix" or undo the horrendous damages. It's too late.






.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: Derek Wolff I don't believe I need to inform you of the current state of the US economy. What possible solutions could there be? I don't want to hear any political mud-slinging or baseless opinions in this debate. I would like to hear informed responses, as this is an important issue that should be treated with logic. Frankly, I have not heard any public discussion on this issue, and I believe it should be said some where.

Do you understand basic economics? Do you have any critical responses on current Monetary Policy?

I hope this is a good change compared to the other whimsical none-sense we get a lot here.

Hypocrisy at its finest. Before you insult the board, at least understand your question.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I never said we could attain superpower status, but that it would jump start our economy. And if you don't think our prosperity was almost totally due to the destruction wtought on the rest of the world by the two biggest wars, and instead due to a relatively small impact of refrigerators and T.V.s, the production and consumption of which were only made possible in the industrial prosperity directly caused by the aftermath of the wars, consult a historian. And I never said anything about the Vietnam era or even power in general, just that, if you want a good industrial economy, it helps to have all the competition taken out.

Sure, if we got away with nuking England, China, Germany, Japan, Brazil, Canada, France, India, Italy, Russia, and any other country that is productive then I guess we would have the best economy, relative to them. We could even call that "cold logic". But also totally crazy and un-American like. Congress would never agree with such a silly plot.

I know all about those historian perspectives that war caused us to get more productive in order to make tanks, weapons, planes, jeeps, and stuff like that. And some of the ideas used for military purposes were then transferred for peaceful pruposes. Missles ended up as our space program and now we have a bunch of communicational satellites orbiting earth. The depression era of the 1930s was partly rescued by the need to prepare for war. Likewise the economy of Germany got better when Hitler created his war efforts (until they finally lost because they did not have any oil wells to fuel their vehicles). But to continue to base our economy on war efforts is unwise and also "not nice". We got more pride in ourself then to do that. Take the current trillion spent on the war in Irag and then check to see if that boosted our economy and generated more jobs here at home. Did you see the steal industry booming again? No you did not see that. Your idea is no longer workable and is now obsolete.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: maximdewinter Hello all. I think that historically, healthy economies have had a stable currency, a good savings rate, low taxes--both personal and corporate, a favorable balance of trade and an excellent educational infrastructure with a strong work ethic. In other words we have some problems. Right now I would say that the number one problem is that the dollar's value is in a free fall and we are doing nothing to support it. I believe that the problem has been long term--massive debt which most other countries think is going to be monetized by our Fed, so they are dumping the greenbacks further depressing the price. The solution to that one I'm afraid is going to be long term and painful.

Welcome to Volconvo. Those are some good "down to earth" insights and well written.

We now have a somewhat different landscape. The chain stores have replaced many of the family run businesses, technology and machines have replaced many of the jobs once done by workers without a collage education, criminal activity has become more popular as a kind of underworld business which plays a role in all of this - they do not pay taxes but taxes are used to fight that undergound business. And of course we got outsourcing of jobs and more imports both in products and immigrant workers. And those changing landscapes did not ocur slowly over a long span of time, it rushed in on the express lane, most of those changes took place right after the Motown era. (late 1950s through the 1960s and really sped up when the computer collective took charge. We cannot just turn back to the days of the fishtail cadilacs where gasoline was 25 cents a gal and when techonolgy was all about having Sam Cooke on a 8 track tape player so we can woo our girl on the way home form the drive in movies ( without the darn seat belts to prevent snuggling up). Although, to be honest, I am all for that "old school" stuff.

That is where we got caught off guard, it happened so fast, although some real young people might think that it was always as it is nowadays. Those who have no clue about what a phonograph record is. We have women who are still alive today who were not permitted to vote in the old days. One life span equals rapid change. I doubt if we can slow down the fast track because the train already left the station, we must adopt to these new challenges and adapt as rapidly as they ocur, which will take some fast thinking poltics.

[maximdewinter]

Quote by: Technosoul Welcome to Volconvo. Those are some good "down to earth" insights and well written. We now have a somewhat different landscape. The chain stores have replaced many of the family run businesses, technology and machines have replaced many of the jobs once done by workers without a collage education, criminal activity has become more popular as a kind of underworld business which plays a role in all of this - they do not pay taxes but taxes are used to fight that undergound business. .

Thanks.
It is funny you should mention this because I was having a conversation with a client of mine today and we were talking about "The Underground Economy." Remember when this was chatted about all the time in the late 80's and early 90's? At that time they were accentuating the cocaine trade and other drug trades and they guesstimated the size of the underground economy to be about 500 Billion dollars a year. Last time I googled it the figure was at around 1.5 Trillion...but who really knows? While looking it up on wiki I found out about the "household electricity method" for figuring out what would otherwise be hidden:


Underground economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scope, Size and Measurement[i]

The measurement of the size of the underground economy is subject to a large margin of error. Economists seeking to measure its size have often looked at the volume of cash in circulation, although a large part of the underground economy takes place via bank accounts located in tax havens. Discrepancies between the growth of officially reported spending (GDP) and the growth of cash in circulation may be used to infer growth in the size of the underground economy, but these estimates are subject to a considerable amount of judgement, and are controversial. Still other methods of measurement include the Household electricity approach.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Derek Wolff The US economy solution

Mandatory objective :
Get rid of lobbyists : available

Following apsects :
Restructure a health-care system : available
Restructure process of education : results within appx. 10-20 years
Switch (back) from Service to Manufacture : available

Perspective aspects :
New (computer-based) enterprise : ?
New (technology-based) alternative forms of energy : available

Political aspects :
The U.S. House : a complete overhaul and/or replacement and/or major repair :-)
(Guys in breaks for scanning their noses, fart in chairs.
Chairs for a complete replacement, too :-) )

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Part of Clinton's plan follows: Is it the absolute worst way to spend billions of dollars? I think not. As someone who was laid off a few months back and who did not receive any unemployment, I think this is an important issue. Grandpa h.

If we do totally away with welfare I am for it!

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 If we do totally away with welfare I am for it!

The rich do what they have been doing for centuries -- slash benefits for others, take more for themselves.

Grandpa h.