Rightwing American Zionists:

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa But they should. If nothing else, it's a part of introspective judgment. Why are there a "few loud ones?" Because not every Jew is a total coward.

PLEASE, they are cowards. They are the same type of Jew the helped the Nazis in order to save their own a$$es. There is nothing courages about them.

You may think a Jew has to hate himself to criticize "national identity," but I don't. Every person can question "national identity." It has nothing to do with "hating yourself." Arguments against ideological tyranny are nothing to be ashamed of.

To be accurate, I despise self-hating Americans a he11 of a lot more than self-hating Jews.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 PLEASE, they are cowards. They are the same type of Jew the helped the Nazis in order to save their own a$$es.

That's a pretty bold statement. Still, you fail to explain how it's cowardly to question national or group identity.
If Germans had challenged their national identity, no holocaust of any group would have occured.

Grandpa h.

[Rainbow]

When Charles Krauthammer, Bill Kristol, Michael Rubin, William Safire, Robert Satloff, or the legions of other prominent media figures write their reflexively pro-Israel pieces in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, or the Los Angeles Times, or opine on the Fox News Network, there is never any mention that they are Jewish Americans who have an intense ethnic interest in Israel. When Richard Perle authors a report for an Israeli think tank; is on the board of directors of an Israeli newspaper; maintains close personal ties with prominent Israelis, especially those associated with the Likud Party; has worked for an Israeli defense company; and, according to credible reports, was discovered by the FBI passing classified information to Israel - when, despite all of this, he is a central figure in the network of those pushing for wars to rearrange the entire politics of the Middle East in Israel's favor, and with nary a soul having the courage to mention the obvious overriding Jewish loyalty apparent in Perle's actions, that is indeed a breathtaking display of power. One must contemplate the fact that American Jews have managed to maintain unquestioned support for Israel over the last thirty-seven years, despite Israel's seizing land and engaging in a brutal suppression of the Palestinians in the occupied territories - an occupation that will most likely end with expulsion or complete subjugation, degradation, and apartheid.

1.
One must manifest quite brain-uncontaminated thoughts, not to figure out that (for instance) names like Charles Krauthammer, Bill Kristol, Michael Rubin, William Safire, Robert Satloff, etc. are not Jews. A simple photo may help to confirm that data, with ease.

2.
Get rid of lobbyists.
There goes Perle along with others.

A support for Israel is yet another aspect.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Rainbow 1. One must manifest quite brain-uncontaminated thoughts, not to figure out that (for instance) names like Charles Krauthammer, Bill Kristol, Michael Rubin, William Safire, Robert Satloff, etc. are not Jews.

MacDonald, whether anti-Semitic (as alleged) or not, is also accurate in noting:

"Jewish
organizations in America have been a principal force - in my view the
main force - for transforming America into a state dedicated to
suppressing ethnic identification among Europeans, for encouraging
massive multiethnic immigration into the U.S., and for erecting a
legal system and cultural ideology that is obsessively sensitive to
the complaints and interests of non-European ethnic minorities - the
culture of the Holocaust."

Grandpa h.

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa That's a pretty bold statement. Still, you fail to explain how it's cowardly to question national or group identity. If Germans had challenged their national identity, no holocaust of any group would have occured. Grandpa h.

It is so typical (and very unethical) for you to compare Jews to Nazis!

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa MacDonald, whether anti-Semitic (as alleged) or not, is also accurate in noting: "Jewish organizations in America have been a principal force - in my view the main force - for transforming America into a state dedicated to suppressing ethnic identification among Europeans, for encouraging massive multiethnic immigration into the U.S., and for erecting a legal system and cultural ideology that is obsessively sensitive to the complaints and interests of non-European ethnic minorities - the culture of the Holocaust." Grandpa h.

First off its undeniable that MacDonald is a raging antisemite, so quite the alleged BS!
Second, the messager has a lot to do with the message. If you can't understand that then go down to your local univesity and take a call in the communication and media.
Third, what your quoting is nothing but illogical, bigoted, baseless anti-semitic propaganda against the Jews people. This could easily be taken from the pages of the Proctors of Elders!

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 It is so typical (and very unethical) for you to compare Jews to Nazis!

That's not even what I did. I made a general statement, applicable not only to Jews. What let leaders in Nazi Germany gain power? National identity. That's a general statament.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 First off its undeniable that MacDonald is a raging antisemite, so quite the alleged BS! Second, the messager has a lot to do with the message.

I say "alleged" because character assassination is very common.

In the specific words I've quoted, the "messenger" isn't the message. What he says is actually accurate. The same is true og the John Hagee quote regarding Catholic reatment of Jews. Does this mean one must agree with literally everything John Hagee says? No. Essentially, you're asking me to be an ignorant, intellectual coward. You're saying it's wrong to examine views from a wide range of sources. You're also arguing that we should only discredit sources of information, not the information itself. That clashes pretty sharply with basic standards of intelligent discussion.

Grandpa h.

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa I say "alleged" because character assassination is very common.

When the messenger has NO character, then its no character assassination its justifiable character assessment!

In the specific words I've quoted, the "messenger" isn't the message. What he says is actually accurate. The same is true og the John Hagee quote regarding Catholic reatment of Jews. Does this mean one must agree with literally everything John Hagee says? No. Essentially, you're asking me to be an ignorant, intellectual coward. You're saying it's wrong to examine views from a wide range of sources. You're also arguing that we should only discredit sources of information, not the information itself. That clashes pretty sharply with basic standards of intelligent discussion.

Que?

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 When the messenger has NO character, then its no character assassination its justifiable character assessment!

You mean simplistic character assassination, like you just engaged in.

Grandpa h.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: grandpa MacDonald, whether anti-Semitic (as alleged) or not, is also accurate in noting: "Jewish organizations in America have been a principal force - in my view the main force - for transforming America into a state dedicated to suppressing ethnic identification among Europeans, for encouraging massive multiethnic immigration into the U.S., and for erecting a legal system and cultural ideology that is obsessively sensitive to the complaints and interests of non-European ethnic minorities - the culture of the Holocaust." Grandpa h.

My expression carries no bias. It merely states facts, instead.
One needs to follow events that took place in Europe - especially in Germany, prior WWII.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Rainbow My expression carries no bias. It merely states facts, instead.

That's how I try to be as well. Rather than just calling names, my interest is in pointing out actual defects (or strengths) in an argument.

Grandpa h.

[shrike]

Quote by: grandpa What he says is actually accurate.

So you agree that jews act,think and want the same think just becouse there were born Jews becouse its what the first post claims.

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa That's how I try to be as well. Rather than just calling names, my interest is in pointing out actual defects (or strengths) in an argument. Grandpa h.

What this says implies (the original anti-semitic theory of the anti-semitic conspiracy nut) is that all the American Jews think alike, act alike and coming together for this grand scheme. It is simply not true, most Jews care more about their immediate family, their own job and welfare. Basically this "theory" (and I say that loosely) preaches the ancient theories that the Jews want to take over the world and control everything. Its false slander that has plagued the Jewish people since they diapora!

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike So you agree that jews act,think and want the same think just becouse there were born Jews becouse its what the first post claims.

The first quote did oversimplify Jews as a group, yes. However, the main point was the prominence of Rightwing Zionists in American government. I didn't say all Jews think and act alike. If anyone does say that, it's easy to refute (similar to how not all Christians think exactly alike).

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 What this says implies (the original anti-semitic theory of the anti-semitic conspiracy nut) is that all the American Jews think alike, act alike and coming together for this grand scheme. It is simply not true, most Jews care more about their immediate family, their own job and welfare.

It's true that many jews aren't power-mad, but some indeed want to run the world, and some are in positions of power. Don't worry, it's not a purely "Jewish" phenomenon. Many Christians would also like a theocratic government, feeling similarly that they are a "chosen people"
(John Hagee, who is correct in his condemnation of Catholicism, appears to be one of them). And, as everyone knows, plenty of Muslims feel the same way. The dimwitted among the masses are willing to go along, of course.

Interestingly, President Bush just did something remarkably similar to what you're doing here:

JERUSALEM — President Bush used a speech to the Israeli Parliament on Thursday to denounce those who would negotiate with “terrorists and radicals” — a remark that was widely interpreted as a rebuke to Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential contender, who has argued that the United States should talk directly with countries like Iran and Syria. Mr. Bush did not mention Mr. Obama by name, and the White House said his remarks were not aimed at the senator, though they created a political firestorm in Washington nonetheless. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/wo...in&oref=slogin

The message is, " don't negotiate with people or address their points, but simply assassinate their character." That's why any talk of a "peace process" is laughable.

Grandpa h.

[shrike]

However, the main point was the prominence of Rightwing Zionists in American government

Yes no one denies that there is many supporters of Jewish national liberation movement. And of course in Republican government that would be Rightwing Zionists probably in a leftwing government that would be leftwing Zionists.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike Yes no one denies that there is many supporters of Jewish national liberation movement. And of course in Republican government that would be Rightwing Zionists probably in a leftwing government that would be leftwing Zionists.

Then you agree. Of course, whether Zionism is a "liberation movement" is debatable, especially now. Nationalism is more about subordination than liberation. In fact, given their history, many wonder how Zionists could come up with such racist garbage as a "Jewish state." However, that tendency is not a purely Jewish one. It's a "right wing" one. There are ethno-religious states the world over, and we know plenty of the destructive results.

Grandpa h.

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa It's true that many jews aren't power-mad, but some indeed want to run the world, and some are in positions of power.

Not zionist though. They want to only control one of the smallest countries in the world.

Don't worry, it's not a purely "Jewish" phenomenon. Many Christians would also like a theocratic government, feeling similarly that they are a "chosen people" (John Hagee, who is correct in his condemnation of Catholicism, appears to be one of them). And, as everyone knows, plenty of Muslims feel the same way. The dimwitted among the masses are willing to go along, of course.

At least you recognized that it isn't a pure Jewish thing. But I would say that is vastly not a Jewish thing. And if a Jew happens to fall in the control the world crowd, it most likely has nothing to do with the fact that he is Jewish.

Interestingly, President Bush just did something remarkably similar to what you're doing here: The message is, " don't negotiate with people or address their points, but simply assassinate their character." That's why any talk of a "peace process" is laughable. Grandpa h.

LOL, come up with a better one! Should I also respect David Dukes speeches? You are asking me to listen to a known and proven bigot and I refuse to.

[shrike]

Quote by: grandpa Then you agree. Of course, whether Zionism is a "liberation movement" is debatable, especially now

I never denied American government support Israel. Though there is many in government that does oppose such support for example in state department.

In fact, given their history, many wonder how Zionists could come up with such racist garbage as a "Jewish state

Exactly because the history. If Jewish state would exist in WW2 many Jews could be saved. No one wanted the Jews then .Those who denying the Jewish right for self determination deeming them for another holocaust.

" However, that tendency is not a purely Jewish one. It's a "right wing" one

Not true.There is many left wing zionists.The main difference beetwing the rigt wing and left is the borders of a Jewish state.

. There are ethno-religious states the world over, and we know plenty of the destructive results.

There is no official religion in Israel