Rightwing American Zionists:

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa Where did I say that? Let's get something straight: I've also said harsh things about Islam. I've conceded, for example, that the term "Islamo-fascist" isn't much of an exaggeration. Does that mean I'm "bigoted" against Muslims and support wiping them off the face of the earth? By your standards, yes. And who knows, maybe in a few decades I actually would want to wipe all Abrahamic religious groups off the map. After all, religious feuds may pose a threat to my very survival.

LOL, you have been more of a apologist of Islamic terrorist than a critic

My main point, though: I base my view on what happened and why, not on who

.
If the "who" distorts the facts and outright makes up facts, then the WHO is just as important as the what. In fact if the WHO is Kevin MacDonald, then the WHAT means NOTHING.

No, it's not the same thing. Hitler said Jews are too prominent in politics AND that Germans need to take over the world.

So did MacDonald. He also says we should be deported (wow also sounds like Hitler), that we are the reason for all the words problems (wow also like Hitler), that we are leeches (who just like Hitler), that we brought the Holocaust upon ourselves (I am sure Hitler would agree) and that Jewish property and business should be confiscated and the few remaining Jews should be taxed at a much higher rate (Wow very similar to the Nazi, No?).

Again, we're talking about American Jews, not German politics, and not even about McDonald's personal history. But it bears repeating: I've quoted all kinds of sources in my life, and I'm not going to apologize for the ideology of each author.

Your heros personal views have influence him to make up things that are simply not true, no matter how much he or you want them to be.

The fact is, Zionism does influence politics in Washington DC.

Not to the extent that the anti-semite make it to be. Our desire for oil. and our hatred of communism - Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua and North Korea are bigger driving forces.

[Dagda]

So did MacDonald

This argument has nothing to do with MacDonald, but more to do with Israel's policy and how it is supported in Washington DC.

Our desire for oil. and our hatred of communism - Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua and North Korea are bigger driving forces

The US government really hates communism, don't they? I wonder why.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Well, grandpa, Jews with conscience certainly think Israeli military occupation is worse than apartheid South Africa. Read South African intelligence minister Ronnie Kasril's observations in the following article. Israel 2007: worse than apartheid : Mail & Guardian Online

LOL, if I remember correctly this guy got in trouble for Holocaust denial. Yep he was the one.

Wow a bleeding heart liberal for the left decrying Israel. Shocking! It is also amazes me how the left can so easily support their obvious double standards with reason.

Also he is not Jewish. His grandparents were Jewish, that hardly makes him Jewish. His parents left the religion behind to avoid persecution in the USSR.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Dagda This argument has nothing to do with MacDonald, but more to do with Israel's policy and how it is supported in Washington DC.

WRONG, it has everything to do with MacDonald!

The US government really hates communism, don't they? I wonder why.

I don't know why we beat the USSR and were wooping China, until they started to embrace capitalism, because of communism's flawed concepts.

[Derek Wolff]

Ever thought that it might be possible the US has a strong alliance with Israel because they cut out the land for the Jewish people as a safe-ground for them. Maybe we felt responsible for their well-being at the end of WWII and this trend persists. I recall when the Lebanon-Israel conflict was continuing there was a lot of people in America telling Israel to back off of Lebanon. You also forget that the Palestinians have on-going rocket attacks against Israel, and they have responded to these attacks. These things are not covered in American news, but they are a daily occurrence as much as suicide bombings in Iraq. Israel even backed off and cut out some land for the Palestinians, (gaza) which is where the rocket attacks are coming from. The Palestinians do nothing but act as aggressors against Israel with extremist views as their backing.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Dagda This may or may not be so, but still does not excuse the fact that Israel treats the Arabs(not just Muslims) in the West Bank terribly when they have as much right to the land as the Israelis.

The Arabs in WB and Gaza are at a state of war with Israel. Israel has not now or every annexed the WB or Gaza. They have not given the Palestinians citizenship and never intend to do it. Israel has all intentions of giving them a Palestinian state if a rational agreement can be achieved.

The Israeli Arabs denouce the Country, refuse citizenship, don't call themselves Israelis, makes speeches condemning the state, openly calling for its downfall, shut down Arab and Druze towns to Jews moving into them and on Israel's independence day they march in protest and denounce the day. Excuse everyday Israelis if they very the Israeli Arabs with distrust! However, every Israeli Arabs has just as many rights as Jewish Israelis, except the Arab Israelis do not have to serve in the army.

[shrike]

Quote by: milton Really? Isn't Isreal based on bigotry, and racism?

Not more than any other nation state in the world.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: shrike Not more than any other nation state in the world.

Really? Can you get free citizenship to, say, the US, if you're Christain?

[shrike]

Can you get free citizenship to, say, the US, if you're Christain?

What do you mean free citizenship?There is naturalization process like in any other state.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: shrike What do you mean free citizenship?There is naturalization process like in any other state.

What I was implying was that any Jew can show up at your border, and get free citizenship simply for admitting being Jewish.

[Aussie]

Can anyone also explain why Israel is the biggest recipient of US aid?

[shrike]

Quote by: milton What I was implying was that any Jew can show up at your border, and get free citizenship simply for admitting being Jewish.

The same practice used in many other states.
Right of return - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Are you claim that all those state base themselves on bigotry or racism.
I personally see the right of return as affirmative action because Jews on the most prosecuted minority in the world. That's one of the main reasons that Israel was created to be safe haven to Jews around the world

[shrike]

Quote by: grandpa Where did I say that? Let's get something straight: I've also said harsh things about Islam. I've conceded, for example, that the term "Islamo-fascist" isn't much of an exaggeration. Does that mean I'm "bigoted" against Muslims and support wiping them off the face of the earth? By your standards, yes. And who knows, maybe in a few decades I actually would want to wipe all Abrahamic religious groups off the map. After all, religious feuds may pose a threat to my very survival. My main point, though: I base my view on what happened and why, not on who.

You said you agree with the quote you brought and now you backpedaling. And why you brought Islam to here is like to compare French and Buddhist .You can't stop being a Jew but you can be stop being a Muslim. That why when I criticize Islam is attack on ideology is like when i criticize communism but when someone attack Jewish people it's a racism because Jews is a nation and that's exactly what this bigot did in the first quote and you happily agreed with him.

No, it's not the same thing. Hitler said Jews are too prominent in politics AND that Germans need to take over the world. I never said that and, at least in what I quoted, neither did McDonald. Again, we're talking about American Jews, not German politics, and not even about McDonald's personal history. But it bears repeating: I've quoted all kinds of sources in my life, and I'm not going to apologize for the ideology of each author. The fact is, Zionism does influence politics in Washington DC.

Yes many Americans see Israel as main ally in the ME, but not only Jews see this way. There is also Jews that oppose this politic. Mac-Donald generalized about the Jews and that why his arguement is wrong.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 LOL, you have been more of a apologist of Islamic terrorist than a critic

A critic is not necessarily a terrorist. You can lie all you want, but I haven't said a single word in favor of Islamic terrorism.

Quote by: GHook93 If the "who" distorts the facts and outright makes up facts, then the WHO is just as important as the what. In fact if the WHO is Kevin MacDonald, then the WHAT means NOTHING.

Again, we're dealing with what, not with who. For example, Prof. MacDonald concludes that efforts of Jews were crucial to the civil rights movement. Say what you want about the man, but that is based in fact.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike You said you agree with the quote you brought and now you backpedaling. And why you brought Islam to here is like to compare French and Buddhist.

I didn't backpedal. I happen to agree with the general crux of the particular statements I quoted. Again, I'm not going to apologize for it. Every great once in a while, I may quote FOX News as being accurate. It wouldn't mean I agree with everything the network has said or done.

Why did I bring up Islam? To show that I criticize it as well, and very sharply. You and Ghook operate under the delusion that opposing Israel or America means supporting Islam. It doesn't.

If I lament how China has destroyed Tibetan Buddhist monasteries, it doesn't mean I support literally everything the Tibetans do. It means China should not destroy monasteries. The same is true if Israel attacks Palestinians, or vice versa.

I'm tired of apologizing for your logical fallacies. I'll do what I can to make you use sound logic, that's all.

Grandpa h.

[shrike]

I didn't backpedal. I happen to agree with the general crux of the particular statements I quoted

So only to make it clear do you agree with following statement from your first post or no?

One must contemplate the fact that American Jews have managed to maintain unquestioned support for Israel over the last thirty-seven years...

[Dagda]

The Israeli Arabs denouce the Country, refuse citizenship, don't call themselves Israelis, makes speeches condemning the state, openly calling for its downfall, shut down Arab and Druze towns to Jews moving into them and on Israel's independence day they march in protest and denounce the day. Excuse everyday Israelis if they very the Israeli Arabs with distrust! However, every Israeli Arabs has just as many rights as Jewish Israelis, except the Arab Israelis do not have to serve in the army.

Can you not understand why? I am not saying everything the arabs do is golden, far from it, I am mearly trying to counter a misguidence in our ideas that the Israeli Jews somehow have been the victims of unprovoked atacks. The muslims in the area feel as if( with much to justifiy the claim) they are being persicuted in there own country. The Palistinians were living there quite happily untill the Jews where dumped there by the guilty Western powers at the end of WW2.
This does not excuse the attrocities commited by the Arabs, but you have to understand that they do it in retaliation to what they percive as an invasion by a forigen power that has no more right to the land than they.

[Dagda]

Israel has not now or every annexed the WB or Gaza.

Yes they have. After the 6 Days War the WB was made part of the state of Isreal. Even now there is a large Isreali armed presence in the so-called independent or autonomus WB.
For a long time the Gaza strip-the only place no-one really wanted_ was the only corner of there former homeland the Palistineans could call home. Many were not allowed to cross the border to the holy land.

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa I didn't backpedal. I happen to agree with the general crux of the particular statements I quoted. Again, I'm not going to apologize for it. Every great once in a while, I may quote FOX News as being accurate. It wouldn't mean I agree with everything the network has said or done.

I have rarely seen you critize Islam, Islamic terrorist or Sharia run countries. I have heard you call for the fall of the Arbrahamic religions, but you usually single out the smallest of the 3. You say you are for doing away with all governments, but the only governments you are consistent is calling for its fall is the US and Israeli government.

Since you mentioned Fox, I would say this is neither "Fair or Balanced".

Ghook operate under the delusion that opposing Israel or America means supporting Islam. It doesn't.

No I don't. I am not delussional to believe that someones uneven critizm of Israel against her Arab, Perian, African and Palestinian counter-parts has as much more to do with antisemitism than their desire for justice.

The same is true if Israel attacks Palestinians, or vice versa.

I would agree you do the latter part, but reframe from the vice versa part.

I'm tired of apologizing for your logical fallacies. I'll do what I can to make you use sound logic, that's all.

What logical fallacies? Anarchism?

[GHook93]

Quote by: Dagda Yes they have. After the 6 Days War the WB was made part of the state of Isreal.

It was never annexed

Even now there is a large Isreali armed presence in the so-called independent or autonomus WB.

There have been constant terrorist attacks from the region. Withdrawing from the WB is much more a risk than Gaza, because of the greater proximity to important Israeli cities

For a long time the Gaza strip-the only place no-one really wanted_ was the only corner of there former homeland the Palistineans could call home. Many were not allowed to cross the border to the holy land.

Why is that. If they claim to be going to WB they could have easily decided to commit a terrorist attack in Israel. Terrorist don't have a label on their forehead. No terrorism mean no more checkpoints and free movement.