New twist to Obama/Wright - New Pastor just as BAD if not worse!

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Winter Wind hehe, this actually helps my case. There was very little press attention. Nobody cared. He resigned because of rumors, not because the public was in outrage.

No, he was ousted which means forced to resign. Clearly the Chinese government didn't feel his merits or ability were more important than the scandal.

Give me an "Elliot Spitzer" and you have a case. Where the populous actually cared.

Why? People actually knew who Elliot Spitzer was, and yet notoriety has nothing to do with your claim about America being the only country that is more concerned with scandal than job performance. I just pointed out an instance of your own government orchestrating the same thing.

He resigned two years before he was meant to retire, the Communist party thought that even the small foot note of a sex scandal wasn't worth the extra two years, especially when the uptight west was coming to visit in a year.

What does the uptight West have to do with your government firing someone because of a sex scandal and not because he was doing a poor job, a supposedly American exclusive phenomenon according to you. Trying to blame the West for the Chinese internally firing a minister is a stretch at best and completely stupid at worst.

The country flipped out? A high profile politician is forgotten within days on a sex scandal. No book tour, no cameras.

Yeah that couldn't have anything to do with a tight lipped government not releasing any more information on an embarrassment like a sex scandal. Or the fact that he wasn't widely known before the scandal.

The world never revolved around this. It did not dominate a news cycle. It was not front line news. Again, give me something like this Wright scandal and I'll concede.

Once again, notoriety has nothing to do with your claim.

Clearly the Chinese are not immune to the "Western Uptight" phenomenon and the addition of "Western" is not valid as well.

Additionally, Western news focusing on well known Westerners has no bearing on Western news not focusing in depth coverage of an Eastern finance minister. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the west really doesn't care that much about Eastern politics when it comes down to it? Eastern policy, maybe. But Eastern politics? Hell no. Furthermore, since when does the news reporting something let alone reporting something in depth have any bearing on whether or not it is happening?

Fact is, you stated that other countries don't care about sex scandals and only care about one's ability to perform their job when your own country did the exact opposite. They ousted a finance minister who was doing a good job forcing him to resign because of his sex scandal.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Winter wind But McCain has yet to disown Hagee. Obama has disowned his paster.

Why should he disown Hagee? Why should Obama have disowned his former pastor? Whatever happened to freedom of association?

Again, this isn't the mud fight I want to get into, but there is a bit of a double standard in the public's eye. I just want them to focus on the issues and not this crap.

Keep dreaming, buddy! If the American sheeple started focusing on the actual issues then they'd have to think and would have to learn about the issues. That kind of mental effort is just too strenuous for the American sheeple. The people that do focus on the issues tend not to vote for Democrats or Republicans.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Chancellor Why should he disown Hagee? Why should Obama have disowned his former pastor?

Well, I think they should be doing that, but it should not be the crux of the election. These should be secondary considerations, at best.

Grandpa h.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: chaossaber No, he was ousted which means forced to resign. Clearly the Chinese government didn't feel his merits or ability were more important than the scandal.

Ok. After showing this article to my government teacher and my parents, they all agree that this was unusual and that more must have been happening under the surface.

The only way this could have happened is if he was embezzling government funds to pay for the extra marital affair. Since there were only rumors around this, and no actual proof of anything, this isn't an example I can do too much about.

Why? People actually knew who Elliot Spitzer was, and yet notoriety has nothing to do with your claim about America being the only country that is more concerned with scandal than job performance. I just pointed out an instance of your own government orchestrating the same thing.

This is about public opinion, not government action. This was a comparison to how much people in America care about the Obama/Wright issue.

And this isn't a competition of which country is better then which (I'm a US citizen) rather it's a discussion of a notable trait in American political culture.

Yeah that couldn't have anything to do with a tight lipped government not releasing any more information on an embarrassment like a sex scandal. Or the fact that he wasn't widely known before the scandal.

People pick up outside papers. Internet exists and the Chinese government can't block everything objectionable. Find one case where there was a public outrage and you have a fair argument.

Once again, notoriety has nothing to do with your claim.

we're comparing it to the Obama/wright incident. notoriety is the center piece of my claim. American public focuses on non-issues, as opposed to China. It's a simple comparison.

The public reaction is the focus.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the west really doesn't care that much about Eastern politics when it comes down to it? Eastern policy, maybe. But Eastern politics?

Oh, I know that. I'm just saying, eastern politics doesn't care about scandals. I've given a posible reason why he was fired that was due to competency and since so little is known about the single incident you outlined, there isn't any reason why it can't be possible.

You can ask around. It's rare, if not unique for a Chinese official to be fired or sidelined due to sexual activity.

Plus, the focus is public outrage.

Furthermore, since when does the news reporting something let alone reporting something in depth have any bearing on whether or not it is happening?

So if news doesn't have any bearing on the news, what does?

Fact is, you stated that other countries don't care about sex scandals and only care about one's ability to perform their job when your own country did the exact opposite. They ousted a finance minister who was doing a good job forcing him to resign because of his sex scandal.

You took a single incident where the sex scandal hasn't even been proven. It is very likely that the man was using government money to pay for the affair. I don't care about the government but the public reaction because this is a contrast with the Obama/wright incident in the USA. It's about political culture and not government.

And don't take it personally. The United States' political culture can't be top notch at everything.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: chancellor Why should he disown Hagee? Why should Obama have disowned his former pastor? Whatever happened to freedom of association?

I agree, I'm just curious why one gets more press attention then the other. It would be an insight into American political culture.

! If the American sheeple started focusing on the actual issues then they'd have to think and would have to learn about the issues. That kind of mental effort is just too strenuous for the American sheeple. The people that do focus on the issues tend not to vote for Democrats or Republicans.

It's a fixable problem. The education system could fix this, right? Teach kids take interest in politics and it's issues?

I donno, but we shouldn't just throw up our hands in disgust without trying to do something...

[GHook93]

Quote by: Chancellor Why should he disown Hagee? Why should Obama have disowned his former pastor? Whatever happened to freedom of association?

Freedom on associations is firmly in place for both McCain and Obama, neither are being prosecuted for there association. But they are running for elections and if they want to govern everyone they need to appeal to the large majority of people. The reason Obama need to denounce his pastor, is because it was his pastor and his self-proclaimed mentor. McCain doesn't need to denounce Hagee, because Hagee is only McCain's endorser, nothing more. Hagee is not his pastor or mentor, in fact McCain never came to Hagee's Church!

[Winter wind]

Quote by: ghook neither are being prosecuted for there association.

Ahahahahaha. I guess not legally, but in other ways...

Hagee is not his pastor or mentor, in fact McCain never came to Hagee's Church!

I know there's a difference, but how do you define it?

Obama doesn't share Wright's view point. It's as simple as that. They are two different people. One has a different platform then the other. Why should this matter?

[GHook93]

Quote by: Winter wind Ahahahahaha. I guess not legally, but in other ways...

It works that way in any election, whether it be for a Union Board, Congress or student council. It is not unconstitutional for a voter to consider who you associate, past decisions you made or another such thing.

This is part of the reason I am glad Judges to the supreme court are appointed.

I know there's a difference, but how do you define it?

Hagee endorsed. You can blame McCain for that. Just as you can't blame Obama for being endorsed by Hamas, Farahkan or the highly racist New Black Panther Party. Just as you can't blame Ron Paul for his endorsement by the KKK leader (forgot who right now).

However, if a man donates $20K to a church, sits in the audience during venomous anti-american and anti-government speech and call the man your mentor in your book then you go beyond and endorser and move towards a special relationship that can and should be scrutinized! Same with Obama's friendship with a self-proclaimed anti-american terrorist - Ayers!

Obama doesn't share Wright's view point. It's as simple as that. They are two different people. One has a different platform then the other. Why should this matter?

On won't argue with the fact that he probably doesn't share Wright's views in respect to the AIDS, America's at fault for 9/11 or hate whitey mentality. But I do think he shares the self-victimization of the black people to which we need a nanny/welfare state. His domestic policies of increasing the government, spending and taxes reflect that. That is what I care most about.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: ghook He domestic policies of increasing the government, spending and taxes reflect that. That is what I care most about.

hahahaha. That's cause he's a democrat Ghook. Not because he went to Wright's church.

However, if a man donates $20K to a church, sits in the audience during venomous anti-american and anti-government speech and call the man your mentor in your book then you go beyond and endorser and move towards a special relationship that can and should be scrutinized! Same with Obama's friendship with a self-proclaimed anti-american terrorist - Ayers!

Jeremiah Wright's church has around 10,000 members and being friends with someone doesn't mean you share their views.

And Obama being friends with Ayers is news to me.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Winter wind hahahaha. That's cause he's a democrat Ghook. Not because he went to Wright's church.

Yet he wants to increase the size of the government larger than most. That is why I don't support the Democratic party, my social liberalism has to be sacrificed for my fiscal conservatism!

Jeremiah Wright's church has around 10,000 members and being friends with someone doesn't mean you share their views.

True, but he claimed Wright was his mentor, that goes beyond just friends!

And Obama being friends with Ayers is news to me.

YouTube - Fox News: Weatherman Bill Ayers Was Obama's "Mentor"
Obama’s Terrorist Friends : Stop The ACLU

[Winter wind]

now why would the "stop the aclu" and fox news have any reason to stretch the truth? especially when referring to a democratic candidate?

True, but he claimed Wright was his mentor, that goes beyond just friends!

my mentors normally don't talk about politics. One I absolutely disagree with, but I like his view of reality.

[xyzer]

Winter Wind posts

Let it die for God's sake. If this is the major issue in America, I've lost faith in Americans

I would posit it is a major issue in America. Why? Because it illustrates a victim sub culture of significat impact on US society. Blacks, particularly inner city dwellers have fashioned themselves as a "victim" group. Which can't help itself or rise above predjudice and penury.. Pastors like Wright and Moss exploit this version of helplessness and deprivation along with demagogic black leaders like Jackson and Sharpton. They criticise the country as an excuse for their own apathy? "Change most often comes from within oneself" not by asking the government to change what already exists?
Such so called gospel in Christian churches is wrong and defeatist? How about these bozos telling their parishoners like it is> Change your ways and go out and get eduacted, make something of yourselves besides victimhood?

The impact in a country with a rule of law and legal equality under that law is the development of a large group of individuals who live off the government dole and don't try to take care of the obvious economic advantage of rising above their poverty level. The Black churches feed on this as evidenced by these Pastors invention of all sorts of imagined wrong that this great country has inflicted on them. They use worn out history and dwell on any obvious racial probles that has ever existed in the 200 year history of this country.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: xyzer I would posit it is a major issue in America. Why? Because it illustrates a victim sub culture of significat impact on US society. Blacks, particularly inner city dwellers have fashioned themselves as a "victim" group.

Connect Barack Obama to this way of thinking and you have a case. Otherwise, he just went to this guy's church (10000ish people in it).

Barack has not said he shared any of those beliefs and I have no reason to suspect he does. What is the deal?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Winter wind Connect Barack Obama to this way of thinking and you have a case. Otherwise, he just went to this guy's church (10000ish people in it).

Plus, xyzer assumes nothing Wright says has any validity, that it's merely a passing phase of "victim culture." In this way, a case is made against any criticisms Wright and his church may have of American culture. At the same time, it makes Obama look guilty by association -- thus, two birds get killed with one proverbial stone.

Grandpa h.