New twist to Obama/Wright - New Pastor just as BAD if not worse!

[grandpa]

Quote by: Winter wind I'm beginning to regret being so open about my age.

Yes, that's a tactic many like to employ. Supposedly, people older than you are wiser. I'm not sure how it works in reality, but in debates with rightwing blowhards it at least serves to distract from real issues.

Quote by: Winter wind You don't get to make that comment because you have been more sheltered from China then I have.

True, and rather fascinatingly, he's making it out as if you're to blame for going off-topic. Ghook does this sort of thing constantly. No joke.

Grandpa h.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: Ghook He lives in China no? He makes distorted comments and inference that the Chinese are superior to us not?

In this particular area yes. However, the Chinese aren't as good as working individually. A culture of fidelity means that the organization is more importent then the individual. This is great, except the workers lack innovation and initiative.

Still, I'm obviously not saying that China is better then America.
I'm saying the people of China are better then the people of America
(jk :) It's not that simple)

Quote by: grandpa Yes, that's a tactic many like to employ. Supposedly, people older than you are wiser. I'm not sure how it works in reality, but in debates with rightwing blowhards it at least serves to distract from real issues.

I actually don't mind that argument because you can't just dismiss experience. What annoys me though is that he things that living in America for X more number of years means that he is more experienced in the methods of China. I've lived here for around fifteen years, which is probably fifteen years longer then he's lived in China.

True, and rather fascinatingly, he's making it out as if you're to blame for going off-topic. Ghook does this sort of thing constantly. No joke.

I'm willing to go off on the tangent with him.

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa Yes, that's a tactic many like to employ. Supposedly, people older than you are wiser. I'm not sure how it works in reality, but in debates with rightwing blowhards it at least serves to distract from real issues.

The phrase "when I was young I was a liberal, then I got older and wiser and became a conservative."

I still consider myself a social liberal, but fiscal and immigration conservative. Most of my fear (you can say agenda) with Obama, comes not about his Pastor, but from his fiscal and immigration programs. He will increace taxes by 20%, that includes taxes on Corporations. He believes ending CAFTA and NAFTA will bring many Corporations back, but his increased taxing and regulating the corporations will do nothing to stop the exodus. He is naive at best. Corporations come back when taxes and regulations go down.

He also plans to increase spending 20 fold. Spending is already out of control and he wants to increase i.

He is not concerned about the border being breach or the rapid rise in illegal immigration.

This is where I find Obama unacceptable.
I still think he has the best foreign policy of them all and I'm sticking to it.

True, and rather fascinatingly, he's making it out as if you're to blame for going off-topic. Ghook does this sort of thing constantly. No joke. Grandpa h.

Gramps coming from you I will take that as a complement!

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 The phrase "when I was young I was a liberal, then I got older and wiser and became a conservative." I still consider myself a social liberal, but fiscal and immigration conservative.

The terms "liberal" and "conservative" are thrown around to the point of absurdity. I'm not intending to do that here. However, I have to ask: What is "conservative" about restricting immigration?

Grandpa h.

[tivodan1116]

'nuff said.

[Winter wind]

Look, I'm not saying McCain is going to be effected by this, I'm only saying there is a double standard. It isn't fair to call this a story and not this. There is little justification.

And I don't want to get into a mud fight over who is worse then the other, I'm just asking if we could focus on the issues please.

[Chaossaber314]

You wanna know the difference between Falwell / McCain and Wright / Obama?

Obama was friends with him and a member of his church for years.
McCain was pandering. Haven't seen him do much of anything else for many years.

Frankly they both look like idiots and I won't vote for either one.

Quote by: WinterWind America is one of the only places on earth were everyone's reaction to sex scandals is "Heavens to Betsy!". Competence is more importent world wide. Not the stuff people magazine publish.

Excuse me but didn't the Chinese government just oust a ministry official over a sex scandal not too long ago?

[Winter wind]

Quote by: chaossaber You wanna know the difference between Falwell / McCain and Wright / Obama? Obama was friends with him and a member of his church for years. McCain was pandering. Haven't seen him do much of anything else for many years. Frankly they both look like idiots and I won't vote for either one.

Good luck finding a candidate who's life resemble Jesus'.

Oh wait, even he hung out with prostitutes.

It's sad in this day and age, even Jesus would be unelectable.

Where do you get the idea that pols have to have a perfect privet life from?

What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

Humbleness. I can't be an expert in all areas so I'm just going to have to be neutral in some areas.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Winter Good luck finding a candidate who's life resemble Jesus'. Oh wait, even he hung out with prostitutes. It's sad in this day and age, even Jesus would be unelectable. Where do you get the idea that pols have to have a perfect privet life from?

Where did you get the idea that was my opinion? I don't agree with either candidate's political platform and won't vote for them for that reason alone. Being sh*tty individuals is just the icing on the cake.

PS. My sig is a Futurama reference in case you were wondering.

[Winter wind]

Where did you get the idea that was my opinion. I don't agree with either candidate's political platform and won't vote for them for that reason alone. Being sh*tty individuals is just the icing on the cake.

Sorry, I was getting your view and ghooks mixed up.

That's a valid reason (while I don't think they are "sh*tty individuals")

[Chaossaber314]

Perhaps "Sh*tty" is too strong. Disingenuous seems to fit better.

[Winter wind]

They are disingenuous, mostly because the public is so demanding in what they want from a politician.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Winter wind They are disingenuous, mostly because the public is so demanding in what they want from a politician.

I disagree. Many gain prominence by claiming to "be strong" on a small cluster of "character strengths" that have little to do with actual policy. In that sense, they actually do represent public interests, because a majority of Americans don't appear interested in issues.

Grandpa h.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Winter wind Sorry, I was getting your view and ghooks mixed up. That's a valid reason (while I don't think they are "sh*tty individuals")

You think I want a candidate like Jesus? I am pro-abortion, for ending the war on drugs, pro-gay marriage etc. I doubt the man would approve!

[Domino]

Don't be so naive! The left don't even know what they are arguing for.

I must not be 'left', because I know what I'm arguing for: the keeping of promises. I must admit, it sucks that, apparently, the only politician who keeps a promise is a douche.

I really don't care to discuss him, anymore: I'm not a part of his electorate, so his campaign activities are insignificant, to me. You know far more about him than I ever care to know, and I'm certainly not going to research the guy so I can find out if he's worth defending.

My position on this is simple: the situation you originally stated did not, necessarily, imply wrongdoing. If you'd like to argue about that, I'll take you up on it, but it seems a bit moot.

Just curious how old are you? I would bet highschool?

Judging from your habit of trying to discredit your opponent on some grounds other than what they say, I think the less you know about me, the better. If it's not my age, you'll use my occupation, or my hair color, or something equally insignificant (like, say, the company I keep). Perhaps now, you'll try to discredit me in future debates "because I'm reticent". You can't seem to control your prejudices, so I'll just deny you the grounds on which to make prejudgment. Behold, my disembodied voice! Oh, how will you argue against it, when you don't know where it comes from? It may be time for that debate tool of last resort: thinking about what it says!

Don't hold me to that, though: I'd kinda like the ladies to know my age :)

[Winter wind]

Quote by: grandpa I disagree. Many gain prominence by claiming to "be strong" on a small cluster of "character strengths" that have little to do with actual policy. In that sense, they actually do represent public interests, because a majority of Americans don't appear interested in issues.

I guess that's what I kinda meant...
American's are interested in the issues, they just get distracted easily.

Quote by: chaossaber Excuse me but didn't the Chinese government just oust a ministry official over a sex scandal not too long ago?

Please, do you really think that had to do with the scandal?
Probably pissed off the wrong people or was corrupt, but couldn't be pinned on it for whatever reason. This is how China works.

The corruption crackdown in Shanghai isn't a corruption crackdown. It's Hu Jintao getting rid of people loyal to the previous leader. Nothing is up front. Everything is done in an indirect way.

Quote by: ghook You think I want a candidate like Jesus? I am pro-abortion, for ending the war on drugs, pro-gay marriage etc. I doubt the man would approve!

Jesus never spoke on abortion, drugs, gay marriage or any of that sort. Don't confuse Jesus with the Christian Right.

Also, don't forget the post I sent arguing against the premise of this thread.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Winter Please, do you really think that had to do with the scandal?

Yes.

China replaces finance minister amid sex scandal rumours

Quote by: CBC The South China Morning Post, citing unidentified sources, reported Wednesday that Jin was said to have a mistress who had also been romantically linked to another official currently under investigation for corruption.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China finance minister steps down

Quote by: BBC Hong Kong newspapers have linked him with a sex scandal involving a disgraced party official.... ...Tax revenues are up, as is the trade surplus and the country has amassed the world's largest foreign currency reserves. And although China is experiencing its highest level of inflation in 10 years, analysts say the resignation has nothing to do with the economy. "Everything I have been told suggests that it's for non-policy reasons," Stephen Green, senior economist at Standard Chartered bank in Shanghai, told the BBC.

Sacked Chinese finance minister Jin detained - paper | World | Reuters

Quote by: Reuters Media speculated that Jin's departure was linked to a sex scandal or questionable dealing.

So in other words, point negated. It turns out that America is NOT the only country where people flip out about sex scandals. All accounts indicate that this guy was doing a good job and his competence and merit had nothing to do with the reason he was ousted.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: GHook93 Obama's new pastor quotes 'F--- AmeriKKKa' rap song Uh-oh, here we go again: Meet Obama's new pastor F--K American the AmeriKKKa US government planted AIDS in Black community Wright was lynched rather than stating that Wright was WRONG. Blacks are lepers! The media distorts the image of Black (Surprised he didn't stat the Jewish controlled media): Obama's comments on his new Pastor How many free passes is one guy going to get with his association with radicals, self-hating Americans and crooks. (1) Pastor Wright - Obama I don't like him anymore, so its cool. (2) Pastor Moss - The story hasn't broke yet so its cool. (3) Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground - He did his terrorist acts a long time back; forget the matter he just recently stated he would do them again and denounced the government. (4) Rezko - Well I will give his contributions to charity, so any of our personal business dealings don't matter. (5) The Electronic Intifada - Before his campaign he went to fundraisers associated with the group. They are an Islamist propaganda network out of Chicago. (6) Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi - A fundraiser tied to Islamic groups, such as Hamas.

So, we're supposed to deny people the right to associate with whomever they please? So much for freedom of association!

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Winter wind Let it die for God's sake. If this is the major issue in America, I've lost faith in Americans. Who cares so much about who is paster is? McCain's is just as racist, so was Nixon's. God, everyone has someone like that they know. It's just that Obama is applying for a job where grown men aren't given the benefit of the doubt. Where the character cops parade the word "values" in order to lead the electorate. It's, frankly, sad. We expect our politician's lives to be flawless, and are shocked when we realize they hid something from us. American's can't deal with imperfection in their politicians, so they set such impossible expectations, that only down right liers can pass the test.

Most of the American sheeple only care about stupid things like this. It's the political version of a American Idol and Jackasses hybrid.

Oh, and by the way, Rev. Hagee isn't McCain's pastor. He's a crony of the religious right to whom McCain is pandering.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: chaossaber Yes. China replaces finance minister amid sex scandal rumours

hehe, this actually helps my case.

There was very little press attention. Nobody cared. He resigned because of rumors, not because the public was in outrage. Give me an "Elliot Spitzer" and you have a case. Where the populous actually cared.

He resigned two years before he was meant to retire, the Communist party thought that even the small foot note of a sex scandal wasn't worth the extra two years, especially when the uptight west was coming to visit in a year.

So in other words, point negated. It turns out that America is NOT the only country where people flip out about sex scandals.

The country flipped out? A high profile politician is forgotten within days on a sex scandal. No book tour, no cameras. The world never revolved around this. It did not dominate a news cycle. It was not front line news. Again, give me something like this Wright scandal and I'll concede.

Quote by: chancellor Oh, and by the way, Rev. Hagee isn't McCain's pastor. He's a crony of the religious right to whom McCain is pandering.

I know, I fixed it.

But McCain has yet to disown Hagee. Obama has disowned his paster.

Again, this isn't the mud fight I want to get into, but there is a bit of a double standard in the public's eye. I just want them to focus on the issues and not this crap.