Obama and Wright / What's with that?

Some -- perhaps many -- Volconvonites live in countries where religion just isn't as important in the political square as it is in the United States.

To many of us it smacks of religious extremism and intolerance. Is the U.S. so intolerant that Obama has to repeat over and over again he's not a Muslim? Is there some problem with being a Muslim, that precludes a Muslim from running for President?

I for one cannot fathom why anyone would automatically assume that Obama is some how an adherent of Reverend Wright's. Does the political body in the U.S. assume that every Catholic agrees on every matter with the Pope? You're supposed to leave a church whenever a pastor or rabbi or priest says something stupid or outrageous? Damn, the places of worship would be empty. If a religious leader isn't saying things that are offensive at times, can they be saying anything important at all? Are places of worship supposed to be comfortable and inoffensive? If so what's the point of them?

I heard Wright's speech on CNN. He said some things that were bizarre, other things that made sense, was very entertaining, made comments that no less than Nelson Mandela and the late Dr. Martin Luther King have said as well.

What's the issue? Isn't the U.S. supposed be a country the extols--and is even supposed to be a beacon of--freedom of speech and freedom of religion? It sure doesn't look like it from here north of 49.

[Sonart]

.

Reverend Wright is perfectly free to say whatever he wants. You'll kindly notice that no one's threatening to shut him up. However, he also happens to be - er, used to be - Barak Obama's Pastor. (I believe he's retired now.)

Anyway, Wright seems to relish saying some pretty outrageous things, such as the U.S. government was involved in the spread of AIDS, and that Louis Farakan is a one of America's great heros.

So naturally, in the middle of the great quadrenial American horse race, everyone needs to know if Obama supports Wright's views or not, and what does Obama think about what his pastor is saying.

Seems easy enough to follow.

.

[Nono]

Now there's a question: Why can no-one agree on how to spell Obama's first name?

Quote by: sdbest What's the issue?

Here's a story I've told on Volconvo before. Can't vouch for its authenticity, but it rings true:

Back in the 40s when he was running for Congress, LBJ instructed his aides to put about the story that his opponent, a farmer, was in the habit of enjoying carnal knowledge with his sows in the privacy of his own barn.

"Are you kidding?!", they replied aghast. "We'll never be able to convince people he's a pig-f***er."

"Doan hafta," LBJ drawled. "Jes you make that sumbitch deny it."

[Nono]

Anyway, I fear we'll now see Obama begin to unravel.
Though some of the things the good reverend says are simply true, and he's perfectly within his rights to say the wackier stuff, he must be out of his effin mind for stabbing Obama in the back like this. Jeez!

[ren]

Quote by: Nono Anyway, I fear we'll now see Obama begin to unravel. Though some of the things the good reverend says are simply true, and he's perfectly within his rights to say the wackier stuff, he must be out of his effin mind for stabbing Obama in the back like this. Jeez!

I tend to agree. But it's just worse than that. Together these three left in the horse race make me catatonic. McCain is being touted as the best of them on foreign policy, and he doesn't seem to be able to comprehend that Sunnis and Shia have deep religious differences, and he keeps telling the press Iran is training al Qaeda militants and sending them into Iran. Hillary is now playing McCain in drag. And about Obama, I figure Maureen Dowd nailed on Sunday:

The very fact that he can’t shake her off has become her best argument against him. "Why can’t he close the deal?" Hillary taunted at a polling place on Tuesday.

She's been hanging tennis balls in front of him over and over, the American public desperately wants someone to do something about Iraq, not invade Iran now, who even likes Hillary, and Obama the graceful just lobs 'em back. I mean, Rev. Wright was the one the Clinton's called to the White House when they needed some religious counseling, according to Michael Moore. He could mention that when she uses Wright against him.

The Democrats are eager to move on to an Obama-McCain race. But they can’t because no one seems to be able to show Hillary the door. Despite all his incandescent gifts, Obama has missed several opportunities to smash the ball over the net and end the game. Again and again, he has seemed stuck at deuce. He complains about the politics of scoring points, but to win, you’ve got to score points.

So if he can't do that, how will he do when the slime really hits the fan?

Quote by: Sonart . Anyway, Wright seems to relish saying some pretty outrageous things, such as the U.S. government was involved in the spread of AIDS, and that Louis Farakan is a one of America's great heros.

And, Clinton's former pastor was convicted of first-degree sexual abuse and endangering the welfare of a child.

Anybody thought of asking Senator Clinton about her views on sexually abusing children? Or her involvement with The Family?

[Chaossaber314]

The trick is that by making a big deal out of this they're trying to get Obama to say he's really not that religious and like a reasonable human-being doesn't believe everything a minister or whoever says.

To which they can say "NOT THAT RELIGIOUS?! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!"

To quote a crustacean I know, "It's a trap."

Though if I were Obama I would be playing up how wonderful it is that Reverend Wright can express himself in this country without fear of reprisal unlike other countries rather than pretending he didn't know any better which in turn makes him either lying or stupid.

[LadiesMan217]

Though if I were Obama I would be playing up how wonderful it is that Reverend Wright can express himself in this country without fear of reprisal unlike other countries rather than pretending he didn't know any better which in turn makes him either lying or stupid.

It's pretty well-known that the man is not stupid so the former must be true, kind of a ironic, since he is preaching hope and change and yet he is doing the same old things, and what is he going to change and how is he going to change them, it is really insulting that he must think the American people are so ready for someone better then Bush that they will just latch on to anyone blindly who says change a thousand times, I can't even find anything about his policy on his own website.

[lsbskins1]

I think it comes down to how the Wright situation effects Obama's ability to be elected. I have always thought Clinton was more likely to beat McCain, but I am beginning to believe it even more now. I agree that people who want to hang Obama with "the sins" of Wright are people who are just looking for any excuse to make him look bad and are not making reasonable choices. But no matter how true that may be in fact, those people are still willing to choose based on that criteria, and that effects his electability. Check out the latest head to head polls. RealClearPolitics - Election 2008 National Head-to-Head Polls

[LadiesMan217]

I think it comes down to how the Wright situation effects Obama's ability to be elected. I have always thought Clinton was more likely to beat McCain, but I am beginning to believe it even more now. I agree that people who want to hang Obama with "the sins" of Wright are people who are just looking for any excuse to make him look bad and are not making reasonable choices. But no matter how true that may be in fact, those people are still willing to choose based on that criteria, and that effects his electability. Check out the latest head to head polls. RealClearPolitics - Election 2008 National Head-to-Head Polls

I have a feeling that the general election is not going to be nearly that close. At the moment, I feel that McCain has the best chance of winning, but if the Democrats pull it together than they could turn the tide. I just have a feeling that no matter who wins, it will be by a considerably large margin.

[Technosoul]

Rev Wright was strong in the areas of social programs and social justice. And he also knew about all the conspriracies that were circulating around in the black community.

It was Rev Wright who paved the way for Obama to become the leading canidate of the Democratic party following after Clinton and then passing her up. Why? Because Obama did not trust the government and knew that our government were involved in a number of conspiracies, of which Wright often gave a poltical sermon about. As his church was linked to those left wing investigations into governmental miss-deeds, of which are linked mostly to the Republicans. Because of his education via the Rev Wright Obama spoke out about not going to war with Saddam and he did not believe that Saddam had weapons of mass distruction. And his good judgement not to support the war back in the beginning was nearly the same as being anti-American. But because of Rev Wright he was not fooled like Clinton and other Democrats who at the time were trying to be middle of the road moderates.

I also knew that the Bush plan to invade Iraq was the product of falsehoods because I also touched base with those left wing conspiracy investigations. As did a lot of other people.

But the mainstream is not aware of those miss-deeds, which if discovered are quickly covered over and displaced from memory by the news media.

But if Obama had continued to agree with all those other theories (based on sound investigative reporting) he would have look like a conspriarcy loon-a-tick to the average person.

It is clearly not on Obama's agenda to voice an opinon on the other things Wright was informing people about, such as AIDS being a by-product of our past bio-weapons program.

Obama wanted to run this bid for the job of President based on change and unification of diversity. And to end the unjust war, to correct domestic problems and our down turn econimically. He is first and foremost a social worker. And not the kind of guy to make a big spectical out of some old conspiracy that happen way back in the 1980s.

He is truely a good guy and wants to set a postive direction to make our country a better place, especially for those who must struggle to make ends meet.

He has done his homework and knows what can be done to make the changes that are needed, and he is getting lots of new blood interested in voting in support of that Democratic objective.

Rev Wright has made up his mind to debate Obama because Obama did not come to his support when the press called Rev Wright a radical person. Now the national polls show that Obama has lost his lead in popular support and he and Clinton are in a photo-finish tie (as of today).

Such that it might be the super deligates who determine the winner, and they are made up of lots of people from past politics, such as Carter, Al Gore, and others who had played an important role in the Democratic Party. Over 200 people who are still watching and making up their minds.

As for me I have moved away from totally supporting Clinton and am sitting on the fense. I would like to see a ticket with Obama as the President leading the visionary charge and with Mrs Clinton as the VP because her experience would be very useful to Obama when it comes to dealing with Washington DC procedures. Also I think Obama's wife would make a great first lady but cannot see Bill Clintion having much to do in such a role (other then getting his own ego in her way).
And I think that leaders in other countries would respect Obama more so then a woman, for a number of reasons.

If they did agree to that ticket then it would also show unity within the Democratic party.

[Voluntary]

Why did it take Obama so long to distance himself?

F'n Game theory at it's finest.

[xyzer]

I'm still ROFL over your LBJ story nono!

Back in the 40s when he was running for Congress, LBJ instructed his aides to put about the story that his opponent, a farmer, was in the habit of enjoying carnal knowledge with his sows in the privacy of his own barn. "Are you kidding?!", they replied aghast. "We'll never be able to convince people he's a pig-f***er." "Doan hafta," LBJ drawled. "Jes you make that sumbitch deny it."

Thing is it really makes the points. We have freedom of speech in the USA and political campaigns reveal all sorts of untruths and rumors.
I wouldn't doubt that some Clinton campaign workers stirred up the Wright fiasco! I'm sure before its over we will see more dirty tricks.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: sdbest And, Clinton's former pastor was convicted of first-degree sexual abuse and endangering the welfare of a child.

LOLOL!!! Ok, so a former pastor from Utica, in CLINTON COUNTY, New York, got himself in some trouble. Yeah, so? Dude, this is not Bill and Hillary's former pastor.

Quote by: sdbest Anybody thought of asking Senator Clinton about her views on sexually abusing children? Or her involvement with The Family?

Tell ya what... when this becomes more than just an OpEd columnist reporting what he read in yet another scurrilous, Clinton bashing book, let us know. Until then, I'll keep it filed carefully with VinceFostergate and Bill Clinton's black love child.

Quote by: technosoul Because of his education via the Rev Wright Obama spoke out about not going to war with Saddam and he did not believe that Saddam had weapons of mass distruction.

Interesting... I spoke out against the war and didn't believe Saddam had WMD...

...and I've never met Reverend Wright. Hmmmm... maybe I channeled him.

Quote by: technosoul But if Obama had continued to agree with all those other theories (based on sound investigative reporting)...

Like what?... that the government imported AIDS? Boy, did the government miss on that one, considering that for the first ten years AIDS was called the "Gay Cancer", the "Queer Disease" and God's punishment of homosexuals. The gub'mint must have been hard at work to steeri it back onto the right target... blacks.

Quote by: technosoul ...he would have look like a conspriarcy loon-a-tick to the average person.

No doubt!

Quote by: Voluntary Why did it take Obama so long to distance himself?

He didn't... he made a major speech back in the middle of March, shortly after this all flared up. The speech was widely reported and received rave reviews, so I suspect the campaign thought it was behind them...

...until the good Reverend decided to re-emerge with a major interview of his own, in which he suggested that Obama was only saying he disagreed with Wright, for political reasons. That made it necessary for Obama to get off message yet again to address the issue, and to take the gloves off regarding his rejection of Wright's crazier positions.

Quote by: Xyzer I wouldn't doubt that some Clinton campaign workers stirred up the Wright fiasco! I'm sure before its over we will see more dirty tricks.

You kidding? The Clintons spent the entire 8 years of Bill's presidency dodging just such nonsense. Make an accusation that sounds bad, get lots of press, and then, by the time the Clinton's had shown the 'scandal' to be baseless -- Whitewater, filegate, travelgate, Hillarygate, Fostergate, troopergate, Chinagate, yada, yada, yada -- the VRWC had already moved on to the next 'Scandal'.

.

[LadiesMan217]

Thing is it really makes the points. We have freedom of speech in the USA and political campaigns reveal all sorts of untruths and rumors. I wouldn't doubt that some Clinton campaign workers stirred up the Wright fiasco! I'm sure before its over we will see more dirty tricks.

I'm sure they probably brought it to the public, but they obviously didn't blatantly make it up like the LBJ story.