Not only isn't the U.S. military very good,it's destroying America!

Americans--at least most Americans--love their military. The problem is that it's strangling them. See The Pentagon Strangles Our Economy: Why the U.S. Has Gone Broke..

Not only isn't the U.S military very good, it's down right harmful to Americans, the very people it's supposed to protect.

Beware the "military industrial complex"; Eisenhower was right, and no one listened. The price will be paid.

[HelioPrime]

One of my friends is going to school thanks to the Army.

He also has the benefit of the best available insurance for himself and his family. Not only that there are all sorts of health benefits down the road. A pretty sweet deal

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: HelioPrime One of my friends is going to school thanks to the Army. He also has the benefit of the best available insurance for himself and his family. Not only that there are all sorts of health benefits down the road. A pretty sweet deal

Yep, all you have to do is forfeit all of your rights, and become government property. A sweet deal indeed.

Quote by: HelioPrime One of my friends is going to school thanks to the Army. He also has the benefit of the best available insurance for himself and his family. Not only that there are all sorts of health benefits down the road. A pretty sweet deal

In a "real" country, you don't have to join the military to have those benefits. All citizens enjoy them.

[JaneDoe321]

Quote by: HelioPrime One of my friends is going to school thanks to the Army. He also has the benefit of the best available insurance for himself and his family. Not only that there are all sorts of health benefits down the road. A pretty sweet deal

Ahem. Ex-Navy and former Marine Corps wife reporting in...



The military insurance is not "the best". A *huge* factor in the quality of the insurance depends on the facilities available on base. If you live in, say, New Orleans, good luck. (I will say that *maternity insurance* is exceptionally affordable. Other than that, again, good luck).

VA hospitals provide much (if not all) of the "health benefits" to retirees and veterans separated with various levels of disability. Again, it's a roulette game. If you live in San Antonio, or within a decent distance, you're possibly going to get adequate care. If you live in Tulsa, good luck. Etc.

Of course you can get free shots for your kids, but... you can get that regardless of who you are/where you live in this country (it doesn't even necessarily require proof of citizenship).

[Technosoul]

For one thing the weapon manufacturing companies are behind the wars and the government promotes those sales.

The military cannot draft people because that idea is no longer popular and so they must keep on re-using the same guys, mostly those National Guard units, The 9-11 attacks resulted in some people signing up but when Bush switched the war to fighting Iraq instead of terrorism the military started having problems getting new enlistments.
Bush is misstreating the people who signed up by making them over-stay thier duty time, plus making them take part is what has amounted to war crimes and that is all flat out wrong.

A real war for the right reason we can win hands-down, but these wars that we get into that are not clearly set forth for that right reason are doomed to failure and are a disgrace to our otherwise good name and our flag waving desire to be patriotic.

[another day]

Quote by: HelioPrime One of my friends is going to school thanks to the Army. He also has the benefit of the best available insurance for himself and his family. Not only that there are all sorts of health benefits down the road. A pretty sweet deal

HAHAHAHAHA... oh man.

naive.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: another day HAHAHAHAHA... oh man. naive.

patronizing cynic.

but really folks. the army isn't a bad option for some. It's better then certain alternatives and if you rise in the ranks, you get to affect world decisions.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: sdbest In a "real" country, you don't have to join the military to have those benefits. All citizens enjoy them.

However true this may be, it has no bearing on the fighting ability of the men and women who wear the uniform.

[Nono]

Skins, your statement has zero to do with sdbest's point in this thread.

It might also be observed that the US military has been a model of "equal opportunity" between black and white for the past 60 years now, while much of the rest of society just can't seem to get past the colour barrier. Groovy.

But the military-industrial complex that Ike warned about (half a century ago for cryin' out loud) has flourished all along.
This must have a great deal to do with the US remaining a Third World society in some respects.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: Nono Skins, your statement has zero to do with sdbest's point in this thread. It might also be observed that the US military has been a model of "equal opportunity" between black and white for the past 60 years now, while much of the rest of society just can't seem to get past the colour barrier. Groovy. But the military-industrial complex that Ike warned about (half a century ago for cryin' out loud) has flourished all along. This must have a great deal to do with the US remaining a Third World society in some respects.

Well, since it was in direct response to something he said, if it has nothing to do with his thread, he was the one who took it there.

As to the point of the thread...the first "clause" of his OP has already been addressed (and debunked) in the other thread on the exact same topic started by sdbest. And the second "clause" is bunk, because it isn't the military that is causing the destruction, it is the pin-headed neo-con dill-weeds who have been running the country for the last 8 years who are plowing us into the ground by ordering a very fine group of individuals into a war that was stupid to begin with.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Yep, all you have to do is forfeit all of your rights, and become government property. A sweet deal indeed.

And if we had state controlled armies as you suggest would that be any different? Or do you really believe just citizen soldiers keeping their guns at home would be an effective army.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: sdbest In a "real" country, you don't have to join the military to have those benefits. All citizens enjoy them.

I guess Canada is a "real" country then?

Is a real country only those where everyone pays taxes for equal benefits such as education and healthcare?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: HelioPrime And if we had state controlled armies as you suggest would that be any different? Or do you really believe just citizen soldiers keeping their guns at home would be an effective army.

This discussion has nothing to do with either of those tangents.


I was just offering up the other side of that alleged "good deal" you were advocating. ( Yet, somehow I doubt you're ex military, or ever intend to serve. )

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Milton Bradley This discussion has nothing to do with either of those tangents. I was just offering up the other side of that alleged "good deal" you were advocating. ( Yet, somehow I doubt you're ex military, or ever intend to serve. )

I have no reason to serve under those condition. I didn't need the money for school and I had no desire to go Iraq.

Your one to talk, mentioning other people's service or lack of service. The only serving you'd do is with your own gun and if some army invaded your own state.

As for the "good" deal I see no reason why its not for those who want to develop their lives and can't afford most schools. Combat always has risks but the reward is being set up for a better life.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: HelioPrime I have no reason to serve under those condition. I didn't need the money for school and I had no desire to go Iraq.

Indeed, you will probably never see a need to serve. Rich folks usually don't.

Quote by: HelioPrime Your one to talk, mentioning other people's service or lack of service. The only serving you'd do is with your own gun and if some army invaded your own state.

A shoot, and a miss...

Quote by: HelioPrime As for the "good" deal I see no reason why its not for those who want to develop their lives and can't afford most schools. Combat always has risks but the reward is being set up for a better life.

Yeah, a better life, unless you are disabled, or killed, or traumatized by the affects of war.


Sure, sounds like a great deal to me as well.


As always, you are the biggest proponent of something you have never done, and never will do. How comforting.


Well, at least you're following in the footsteps of other notable personalities, like George Bush.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: sdbest Beware the "military industrial complex"; Eisenhower was right, and no one listened. The price will be paid.

What Eisenhower exactly meant, we will (probably) never know.
Such kind of enterprise - like "military-industrial complex" - has been lasted as long as Makind emerged. Army is a "special division" in every sinlge state, so far. I do not think it will change any soon.

Quote by: Rainbow What Eisenhower exactly meant, we will (probably) never know.

Eisenhower raised the problem of the military industrial complex -- a term he coined -- in his last address to the American people. He was very clear about what he meant.

"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes."

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Indeed, you will probably never see a need to serve. Rich folks usually don't.

Nothing but an offtopic personal attack. Serving has benefits for those who want money for school and for others its just the honor of serving.

I hit you well on. You'd never serve. Unless the Canadians or whoever come close enough to your doorstep and then you'd only want to fight in citizen militia's where you have the option of leaving at any time. Your no better than the tories who didn't want to participate in the revolution against the rightly british rulers.
[/quote]

[Rainbow]

Quote by: sdbest Eisenhower raised the problem of the military industrial complex -- a term he coined -- in his last address to the American people. He was very clear about what he meant. "This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes."

(I am familiar with Eisenhower's expression.)
I did not mean quotted text, but his thoughts expressed. It is that either Eisenhower did not accept certain (and Unknown to public, still) events (that took place at that time) or tried to create a completely new relations between Military and Business enterprise.
I do not believe that Eisenhower was that stupid he was unfamiliar with the role Army had always played in Mankind history.