H.R. 5843, the Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008

[trobd]

Quote by: Simonius Cannibis Users 40% More Likely to Suffer Mental Illnesses

This article you are quoting was a condensation of this article. BBC NEWS | Health | Cannabis 'raises psychosis risk' In this article it says "But Professor Leslie Iverson, from the University of Oxford, said there was still no conclusive evidence that cannabis use causes psychotic illness." and also "Professor David Nutt, head of psychopharmacology at the University of Bristol, said that cannabis was unquestionably harmful but very much less addictive or damaging than either alcohol or tobacco."

[davedes]

Here is a recent study that questions the link between cannabis use and mental illness:
New Study Indicates Cannabis-Associated Psychosis Risk Is Minimal - NORML

Marijuana, like many other activities, comes with issues. It can be addicting to certain users, and potentially dangerous to others. The addiction is psychological (as is the case with video games, sex, etc) and most users will have little difficulty quitting if they have the desire to.

The other issue is psychological impact. Although most studies do suggest that the psychosis and related illness is very rare, it should be taken with caution. If you are aware of past mental illness, even in the family, it may be unwise to smoke. Likewise, it may be unwise if you are greatly affected by small amounts of alcohol, caffeine or other drugs.

I've personally witnessed some very bad trips from marijuana, some that include deep paranoia, intense confusion and fear, blacking out, vomiting, etc. In all cases the individual smoked far more than necessary, almost as if to show off their prowess.

However, I also notice addiction and negative effects with legal drugs such as alcohol, nicotine, advil and even caffeine. Even activities such as sex and video games come with their share of risks, and although most can do this responsibly, there are always a few idiots that ruin it for the rest of us!

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Simonius Apart from the Greek city states that did this and are frequently hailed as the birth place of democracy and liberalism, and of course the Roman Empire that was missed even by the barbarians that destroyed it. Nor the Third Reich which was actually loved by the majority of its subjects because of its paternalism.

Is it justifiable to create such a beast ( the dreaded paternal government ) if is already understood that dissenting opinion sees that creation as justification for violence?


The irony being that in all the examples given, it took outside interference to vanquish the all powerful government. It wasn't even power that the constituents could take back.


Yet here in the US, we reserve that right by vesting power in the citizenry in the form of arms, and the right to a Militia.


I am of the opinion that "arms" in the hands of the citizen garuntees the right to abolish corrupt government. I know that point is contested by many here, but I maintain that was part of the original intent of the drafters.

[Simonius]

Quote by: trobd Here is another article addressing your specific concerns about schizophrenia Are Marijuana and Schizophrenia Linked? Basically, if you have a predisposition to schizophrenia cannabis can bring it out, but the research does not support that cannabis causes schizophrenia.This is from two MDs and was published in Psychiatric Times. It has been reviewed by about.com's medical review board, a panel of doctors.

You are corrrect, that was my sloppy way of expressing myself. Cannabis is an aggravating factor, and apparently not a cause as such.

[Simonius]

Quote by: trobd Your views are commonly held, but an 1 hour of internet research will show that they are not true. "The Missoula Chronic Clinical Cannabis Use Study examined the effects of long-term and legal medical marijuana use. Russo et al. (2002) demonstrated that regular use of cannabis for more than ten years does not cause major harm to patients:" See the whole article here: Marijuana Research: Documented Safety of Long Term Marijuana Use. Just "google cannabis research" or "cannabis research harm".

Well thanks, I am going to look into that into a bit more detail. It was my understanding that there was a negative scientific consensus on the matter, we could probably pit opposing experts against each other for days but I will have a little search!

[Simonius]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Is it justifiable to create such a beast ( the dreaded paternal government ) if is already understood that dissenting opinion sees that creation as justification for violence?

Well I would be inclined to argue that such understanding itself creates the justification to adopt a 'paternal' line to deal with these potentially violent dissenters. Though I don't know if I am playing devil's advocate or not really!

Quote by: Milton Bradley The irony being that in all the examples given, it took outside interference to vanquish the all powerful government. It wasn't even power that the constituents could take back.

I suppose that is true, its not really the point I was making which was merely that these paternalistic restrictive countries were or are loved.

Quote by: Milton Bradley Yet here in the US, we reserve that right by vesting power in the citizenry in the form of arms, and the right to a Militia. I am of the opinion that "arms" in the hands of the citizen garuntees the right to abolish corrupt government. I know that point is contested by many here, but I maintain that was part of the original intent of the drafters.

I do understand the logic, but in practice I would argue that you do have a corrupt government, and that there is no sign (to me) that private gun ownership and militia groups will improve the situation.

The idea that militia safeguards liberty made sense at the time the constitution was written, that of course had just happened. It was a more violent age, people considered that violence resistance was an option, they generally dont anymore we are in a softer age, and of course an army of 'rebels' concievably had similar equipment, and training to a Governmental army. Most militia groups could be removed by an airstrike these days.

[wieswrestler09]

Quote by: HelioPrime Yes lets make it easy for kids to throw away their lives and future by becoming potheads. After all its not our job to try and help kids, they should be responsible for themselves. I think NOT. I'm sure this bill is going nowhere but I think i'll look up how to contact our local congresspeeps and let them know one citizen doesn't approve. My parents would like to send in their own thoughts as well. I think this might be a first for us.

Legal:
Amendment X of our Constitution states, and I quote "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constituion, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Naturally, cannabis is not mentioned specifically in the constitution. But a lot of things aren't (abortion for example), so scanning through the Constitution for something more definate I came across this in Article I Section 8: "The Congress shall have Power To...provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States". I fail to see how making marijuana illegal and not alcohol or tobacco is providing for our welfare. Illegalizing marijuana is therefore unconstitutional in my opinion.

Around the time Marijuana was illegalized (1937 was when FDR passed the law) DuPont was doing poorly, so it began a propaganda campaign talking about how hemp is bad and should be illegal. It couldn't go after linen or wool because it had no argument there, but it could twist hemp into something seemingly bad. Then Henry Anslinger switched his position from being opposed to a federal ban because he was pressured from the Southern and Western states. The Federal Bureau of Narcotics then began it's own propaganda campaign, telling the public that marijuana turned ordinary citizens into murderers.

------
Health:
According to the Good Drug Guide, Marijuana is worse for your lungs than tobacco smoke. But people smoke marijuana less often and normally stop in their 30s. Of course, smoking anything is bad for your lungs.
According to ACDE, Regular use can delay the onset of puberty in young men and reduce sperm production. For women, regular use may disrupt normal monthly menstrual cycles and inhibit ovulation. When pregnant women use marijuana, they run the risk of having smaller babies with lower birth weights, who are more likely than other babies to develop health problems. Some studies have also found indications of developmental delays in children exposed to marijuana before birth.
It would be ignorant to say there are no bad side-effects of marijuana. Obviously there are, I stated them above, but these are much less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol.
Tobacco causes addiction. I've had many family members who were addicted to tobacco and died fairly painfully because of it. The THC in marijuana prevents you from becoming addicted as easily, it is still possible but significantly harder. I know lots of marijuana users, and I myself have smoked it, and none of them are addicted. They smoke it for the "high", but during sports seasons or when they are preparing for ROTC in college they stop cold turkey, no problem.
Alcohol causes damage to the liver, it can cause memory defects, elevated blood pressure, mouth and throat cancer, pnemonia, damage to the gastrointestinal system system, the pancreas, and the kidneys. This is just a few of the negative affects.

If neither of those reasons work for you maybe this will help:

Firstly it the fact that marijuana has been made illegal by the federal government with the passing of the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act, was due to propaganda created by our lawmakers and lobbyists of tobacco companies. The fact that people compare marijuana to crack, meth, and ecstasy shows how propaganda has affected the publics opinion on marijuana usage. Marijuana is in no way similar to any of those drugs, or tobacco and alchol for that case. It is not nearly as addictive and has never resulted in a death from overdose or plain usage. There have been instances where individuals made bad choices and chose to drive while under the influence, but in most cases alcohol intoxication was also present. And why is tobacco legal while marijuana isnt? Especially since they have it been proven to be the cause of lung cancer which in turn causes many deaths in America.

Well because the tobacco industry is more associated with conversativism. Tobacco farmers, processors, sellers, are generally all conservative. The Tobacco lobby gives generously to the Republican party.
Drug use was part of the counterculture that was also against our involvment in Vietnam. The war on drugs was really a war on hippies, freaks, and others against the war. since they were the people most likely to use recreational drugs.

But this is beside my point. I believe Americans should be able to choose what they do for recreation on their spare time as long as it doenst affect others or their job performance.
By illegalizing marijuana we are creating a more socialist form of government. I dont know if ya'll are ok with that but I sure as hell aint.
And anyways it doesn't matter what it does or does not do to your body, it only matters what rights are unwillingly being taken away from you. It is your right to choose for yourself, is it not? Doctors have the right to recommend what you should do, but not legislate it. Americans today give too much choice to the government, as if they are scared to choose for themselves. It's really sad.
I'm not trying to get everyone to light a spliff, but trying to get everyone to wake up and take a look at the reality of things. Marijuana is easier to obtain than alcohol and cigarettes by teenagers throughout America. I believe we should legalize it, regulate it, and tax it to limit the amount of underage of users in America. And by legaizing it we could empty the prisons of non-violent marijuana users and focus more on catching the real criminals (child molesters, murderers, rapists etc.), and stop the unintentional funding of criminal/terrorist organizations that produce the herb.
Plus it would help relieve some of the debt that is pulling our country down.

You be the judge.

[wieswrestler09]

sources (couldn't post in my first post)

NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Legality of cannabis in the United States
ACDE home page,

[Apologist]

You know in Holland their trying to legalize heroin now.

Never really cared that much about the issue till I got in college and several of my friends dropped out because they didn't go to class. Why? Because they waked and baked.

So no, I won't support this Bill.

ps. Don't say "Everyone doesn't do that"... Maybe not, but I have personal references that says otherwise and it's enough to present a clear picture in my head.

Drink a beer instead.

[wieswrestler09]

Quote by: Apologist You know in Holland their trying to legalize heroin now. Never really cared that much about the issue till I got in college and several of my friends dropped out because they didn't go to class. Why? Because they waked and baked. So no, I won't support this Bill. ps. Don't say "Everyone doesn't do that"... Maybe not, but I have personal references that says otherwise and it's enough to present a clear picture in my head. Drink a beer instead.

How is waking and drinking any different than waking and baking? Other than smoking marijuana before class can help you focus (don't know if it's true, but some of my friends swear to it) and alcoohol has the opposite effect?

I'd much rather drink a beer than smoke marijuana, but that doesn't mean that the government has a right to choose what we can and can't do, but I addressed that in my previous post.

[Apologist]

Quote by: wieswrestler09 How is waking and drinking any different than waking and baking? Other than smoking marijuana before class can help you focus (don't know if it's true, but some of my friends swear to it) and alcoohol has the opposite effect? I'd much rather drink a beer than smoke marijuana, but that doesn't mean that the government has a right to choose what we can and can't do, but I addressed that in my previous post.

There isn't a difference except one is illegal(Unless of course they drive to school). I was quoting personal stories. I know friends that drank in college, of course... I was one of them. But it didn't stop them or myself from graduating. Do you see?

Also I hope that last sentence of yours was merely a oversited quick reply. Because the government has every right to get involved if you are doing something illegal. Otherwise there would be no government.

Hopefully you meant that government has no right to put laws on people that prohibit them from doing something which only affects themselves and not others. There you have a case.

But some will argue that it is a step drug, it promotes immorality, or whatever.

Personally, I think it is a step drug, but many potheads dissagree. lol. Made myself laugh there.

I went to Holland and you can see the affects there. They are also trying to legalize heroin now. Which, from only being there a month..I could have bought some everyday from street dealers.

Wake up Potheads, time for Class!

[tinybear]

Here's my question: What 'responsible' adult in his right mind would use marijuana?

[grandpa]

Quote by: tinybear Here's my question: What 'responsible' adult in his right mind would use marijuana?

Plenty would, and do. State and federal laws
still prohibit use, but that doesn't mean it's an "irresponsible" activity.

Grandpa h.

[tinybear]

Of course, it's irresponsible activity. Look at its effects.

Effects of Marijuana - The Health Effects of Marijuana

[another day]

yawn, you are boring. Some people should try seeing things in a new way once in a while. So uptight and ridiculous.