Vote Democrat to save America?

[kensai_soke77]

I am a Republican leaning Independent, however this argument made by Dr. Leonard Peikoff of the Ayn Rand Institute changed my mind. It was a tough sell for me, especially with John McCain as a candidate (I am a native Arizonan). I have heard pro-Republican-vote arguments on the basis that it is less difficult to intellectually challenge the religious right as opposed to the socialist left. It appears to me that the Republican/conservative party is becoming ever more saturated by pro-religious groups. My concern is that if this is true, then a well entrenched religious-Republican party will be harder to remove than a socialist-Democrat one. (I prefer a secular, pro-business, small government political party.)

Any thoughts on this?

Leonard Peikoff: The world's foremost authority on Ayn Rand's Philosophy: Objectivism

(October 19, 2006) Peikoff on the coming election Q: In view of the constant parade of jackassery which is Washington, is there any point in voting for candidates of either entrenched party? Throwing out the incumbents "for a change" is to me an idea based on the philosophy that my head will stop hurting if I bang it on the opposite wall. A: How you cast your vote in the coming election is important, even if the two parties are both rotten. In essence, the Democrats stand for socialism, or at least some ambling steps in its direction; the Republicans stand for religion, particularly evangelical Christianity, and are taking ambitious strides to give it political power. Socialism—a fad of the last few centuries—has had its day; it has been almost universally rejected for decades. Leftists are no longer the passionate collectivists of the 30s, but usually avowed anti-ideologists, who bewail the futility of all systems. Religion, by contrast—the destroyer of man since time immemorial—is not fading; on the contrary, it is now the only philosophic movement rapidly and righteously rising to take over the government. Given the choice between a rotten, enfeebled, despairing killer, and a rotten, ever stronger, and ambitious killer, it is immoral to vote for the latter, and equally immoral to refrain from voting at all because “both are bad.” The survival of this country will not be determined by the degree to which the government, simply by inertia, imposes taxes, entitlements, controls, etc., although such impositions will be harmful (and all of them and worse will be embraced or pioneered by conservatives, as Bush has shown). What does determine the survival of this country is not political concretes, but fundamental philosophy. And in this area the only real threat to the country now, the only political evil comparable to or even greater than the threat once posed by Soviet Communism, is religion and the Party which is its home and sponsor. The most urgent political task now is to topple the Republicans from power, if possible in the House and the Senate. This entails voting consistently Democratic, even if the opponent is a “good” Republican. In my judgment, anyone who votes Republican or abstains from voting in this election has no understanding of the practical role of philosophy in man’s actual life—which means that he does not understand the philosophy of Objectivism, except perhaps as a rationalistic system detached from the world. If you hate the Left so much that you feel more comfortable with the Right, you are unwittingly helping to push the U.S. toward disaster, i.e., theocracy, not in 50 years, but, frighteningly, much sooner. The above statement may be reproduced or disseminated at will, without any requirement to consult or inform Dr. Peikoff.

[Milton Bradley]

Well, if electing Democrats is the only thing that can save America, I say Let it Sink!


Sorry, but I just have to much self respect to become complicit in all the crimes the Democrats commit against the Constitution.


Want to really save America, start insisting that your elected officials respect, and protect the Constitution from the Liberal Attack Machine that is Hell bent on undermining the Constitution.


Then, we can get on the business of stringing up these treasonous traitors.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Well, if electing Democrats is the only thing that can save America, I say Let it Sink! Sorry, but I just have to much self respect to become complicit in all the crimes the Democrats commit against the Constitution.

Unfortunately, the two party duopoly penetrates into the deepest recesses of America.

Grandpa h.

[Domino]

Democrats don't have a monopoly on committing crimes against the Constitution. Both parties are happy to violate the Constitution, and they often work together to do so, at the requests of special interests. So long as decisions are made behind closed doors, this will always be the case.

I will vote for whoever promises to restore accountability to our government. That may make me a sucker, but it's really the only change that matters. Without accountability, nothing said during a campaign means anything, anyway. Until we get some sunshine in there, our nation will always be run by vermin.

[Technosoul]

At this point in history a vote for democrats will save our country from the weights of the Republicans that is causing us to sink.

It might not give us wings to fly high in the clouds but at least we will be able to swim on the surface again rahter then drowning under the great flood of right wing religious doomsdayism. It gives us a Ark by which to survive on until the flood water caused by the Republican party has ceased to rain on our parade.

As far as all your 3rd party ideas, and those loopholes in the Consitution, that is for another day.
Ron Paul was put on the backbruner for the time being. We must make use of what is currently avalible to us in this uncomong election. And although women do not prefer being used Hillary is nonetheless our best helpmate in this current situation, and for the healing of America in all aspects of that word.

It is akin to pulling Bill back into the family fold from his temporary distraction. We need someone who can pull us back into the will of the mainstream family and away from that bushie "other woman". In other words... she's got experience.

As Johnny Cash might say "I walk the line" because it is time for the women behind every great man to come foreward and to say " it is my turn" to be in front.

[Milton Bradley]

In a sense, I advocated the exact opposite of Dr. Peikoffs position in 2000, when it was time to topple the Clintons from power, so I can relate to the sentiment of his message.


Realistically, I cannot advocate a Democratic President this election, there is just too much at stake. A vote for Democrats this time around could potentially put you in the 80% tax bracket Bill Clinton joked about on his way out of office.


I must say, at this point, I'll be equally comfortable shooting at either group if the clamp down on civil liberties continues. Neither side has a friend in me.


If there is any choice to save this country, it is Ron Paul 08, or the Libertarian candidate.

[Domino]

I have problems with the Libertarian principles. It seems that their quest for smaller government is driven by a belief that government can never really be held accountable. If we can restore accountability, we'll have a better chance that our government will be the appropriate size, whatever that may be.

I think this could be the year of the Reform party, if they hadn't torn themselves to pieces in previous elections. I think a campaign based entirely on reform could be hard to run against.

[Technosoul]

[quote=Milton Bradley;498701]In a sense, I advocated the exact opposite of Dr. Peikoffs position in 2000, when it was time to topple the Clintons from power, so I can relate to the sentiment of his message.


Realistically, I cannot advocate a Democratic President this election, there is just too much at stake. A vote for Democrats this time around could potentially put you in the 80% tax bracket Bill Clinton joked about on his way out of office.


I must say, at this point, I'll be equally comfortable shooting at either group if the clamp down on civil liberties continues. Neither side has a friend in me.

Bill Clinton joked because he would be one of the wealthy people who would have to pay more taxes under his own plan. Hillary would also see to it that those in the upper brackets of income would pay their fair share of taxes instead of being allowed to use deductions to dodge their responsibilities.

Meanwhile Obama is projecting a possible 20% tax raise for all middle class blue collar Americans.

McCain is for hacking more from domestic programs like education but wants to continue spending more on a pointless war in Iraq, using our credit card with China for pushing off payments for a later generation to pay back.

Ron Paul is not a canidate.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Technosoul Ron Paul is not a canidate.

Ron Paul hs not dropped out of the race, so you can still vote for him.


If he does drop out, you can still basically get the same package by voting for the Libertarian candidate.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Ron Paul hs not dropped out of the race, so you can still vote for him. If he does drop out, you can still basically get the same package by voting for the Libertarian candidate.

Why waste your vote on these guys?

[Winter wind]

Quote by: mb Sorry, but I just have to much self respect to become complicit in all the crimes the Democrats commit against the Constitution. Want to really save America, start insisting that your elected officials respect, and protect the Constitution from the Liberal Attack Machine that is Hell bent on undermining the Constitution.

Hey, it's not just democrats that are ignoring the Constitution. Look who is in power right now.

If there is any choice to save this country, it is Ron Paul 08, or the Libertarian candidate.

They won't win. People want the government to have some amount of power to avoid another "Articles of Confederation".

On the other hand, neither candidate will risk subverting the constitution much after all the press attention on the previous administration's infractions.

Also, Ron Paul has a very slim chance, if any at winning.

You might want to have your vote count and do a cloths-pin vote

[Derek Wolff]

Libretarians seem to be the only sane party these days. The right wants to limit our rights because of anti-conformism and the left wants to limit us by giving minorties more rights than the majority has. The libretarians go down the middle and say "it is your personal responsbility not the governments in ethnic and social dilemmas"

I find it hilarious that Dr. came from the Ayn Rand institute. The Ayn Rand philosophy is incredibly libretarian and is very anti-socialist pro-capitalist. I am a personal follower of it.

I feel though a Democrat might be able to stabalize our country economically and stop the war mongering we witnessed in Bush's time. Maybe with a right-wing politician to watch the Democrats we'll have a better chance to prevent a larger government and displacement of civil liberties such as the right to bear arms.

Why waste your vote on these guys?

If everyone voted for what they believed in not the precieved practical decision because of what our dominant parties attempt to present us with we'd be in a far better state. Its like giving us two decisions but each are completely horrible, but we have two so we have some precieved freedom. We'll truely be free when we dare to "waste our vote" on some one we actually believe will be good in office.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Milton Bradley If there is any choice to save this country, it is Ron Paul 08, or the Libertarian candidate.

Porky the Pig! The fraud who the Pork Barrel report exposed! Sorry but Ron Paul has no credibility now. McCain has gone against his party because of his beliefs. He talked against wasteful spending, like Ron Paul did, however, unlike Ron Paul McCain spend $0 on pork barrel spending. His excuse for the pork was very disingenious.

[GHook93]

(1) 20-30% increase in tax brackets! increasing above socialist Europe.
(2) If you want socialism
(3) If you want a 10 fold increase in illegal aliens
(4) If you want to give increased fuel and steam the the la Raza and la requistadora movements
(5) More penetration of the borders
(6) More pork barrel spending
(7) More wasteful spending in general
(8) The fairness doctrine that is a direct infringment on the 1st amendment
(9) 10 fold increase in welfare
(10) An 10 fold increase in corporate taxes, meaning more and more companies will move overseas and we will continue to lose the trade war to China!

[Winter wind]

Quote by: derek If everyone voted for what they believed in not the precieved practical decision because of what our dominant parties attempt to present us with we'd be in a far better state. Its like giving us two decisions but each are completely horrible, but we have two so we have some precieved freedom. We'll truely be free when we dare to "waste our vote" on some one we actually believe will be good in office.

Well this will be my first vote, and I'm voting for the guy I think will do best.

The libretarians go down the middle and say "it is your personal responsbility not the governments in ethnic and social dilemmas"

My problem is that libertarians don't give government the power it needs to actually govern. Though I would be interested in having a libertarian in office just once to see what would happen.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Ron Paul hs not dropped out of the race, so you can still vote for him. If he does drop out, you can still basically get the same package by voting for the Libertarian candidate.

If they can get their self on those national TV debates so that have a chance to get enough votes I might concider doing that very thing.

However McCain already has the Republican spot and Paul ran as a Republican and so how can he still be on their ticket? Can people in Penn vote for him today?

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Winter wind Well this will be my first vote, and I'm voting for the guy I think will do best. My problem is that libertarians don't give government the power it needs to actually govern. Though I would be interested in having a libertarian in office just once to see what would happen.

Hmm? are you living here or in hong kong? (noticed the location posted under your image )

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Winter wind Hey, it's not just democrats that are ignoring the Constitution. Look who is in power right now.

I didn't say anything about ignoring the Constitution, I said undermining, and you are correct that both of the big, well established parties are partners in crime when it comes to ignoring, or undermining the Constitution.

Quote by: Winter wind You might want to have your vote count and do a cloths-pin vote

Nope, it's about integrity, and I have too much to select the other options available.


I'd vote Kermit the Frog from the Muppets before I voted Democrat, or Republican.

[Winter wind]

I'd vote Kermit the Frog from the Muppets before I voted Democrat, or Republican.

Not much for practicality?

I'd rather have some control over the inevitable. But, not having any serious problems with either party, I don't mind so much.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Milton Bradley I didn't say anything about ignoring the Constitution, I said undermining, and you are correct that both of the big, well established parties are partners in crime when it comes to ignoring, or undermining the Constitution. Nope, it's about integrity, and I have too much to select the other options available. I'd vote Kermit the Frog from the Muppets before I voted Democrat, or Republican.

Okay then.

Hillary has eyes more like a frog, vote for her.

McCain looks like he is old enought to croke like a frog. vote for him.

Obama can jump like a frog on the basket ball court. vote for him.

Does that help?