Vote Democrat to save America?

[Technosoul]

Okay, someone forgot to mention what or who are the Democrats going to save America from?

From Bin Laden and his puny army and thier homemade weapons?
From all those Made In Hong Kong products?
From the oil industry?
From four more years of Bushism?
From the Wealthy Few?
From greenhouse gasses?
From the ghost of Saddam and his WMDs?
From Doctor Big Bucks?
From the Consitution (I tossed that one in for our die hard Ron Paul guy).
From McCain?

From all of the above?

Okay, make up your mind, what do you want to get saved from?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Technosoul Okay, someone forgot to mention what or who are the Democrats going to save America from? From Bin Laden and his puny army and thier homemade weapons?

They can save us from another imaginary weapons program.

Grandpa h.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: Techno From Bin Laden and his puny army and thier homemade weapons?

Yes, because the Republicans have done such a good job of them (the democrats weren't the ones in power during 9-11 or any time after during the war on terror)

But I think they will do it by having the diplomacy to get other countries to do the work for them.

From all those Made In Hong Kong products?

That's like asking someone to stop the tide.

The Republicans can't deal with this any better then the dems.

From the oil industry?

By setting hell-bent environmentalists on them.

From four more years of Bushism?

Well, as long as Hillary and Obama don't self destruct...

From the Wealthy Few?

Less tax cuts for those who don't need them (and support of the lawyers who make a living draining every penny from the Wealthy Few.)

From greenhouse gasses?

The dems are the ones who plant trees.

From the ghost of Saddam and his WMDs?

Well, I could call an exorcist for the first.

The second never existed in Iraq in the first place.

From Doctor Big Bucks?

?

From the Consitution (I tossed that one in for our die hard Ron Paul guy).

We need saving from the Constitution?

From McCain?

If the Dems got behind a single candidate, I think he would have a shot.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: kakumei Wow, sorry windy, however, if your not a cute smart 17 year old girl, I dont want you in office. ^_^

Well I'm taking one to the prom, one who's interested in politics. So that could work. (My girlfriend would make an awesome pres)

The government doesnt treat us like five year olds, its the Dems, ever heard of California and the Nanny State? Yeah....Democrats.

I donno, the Republicans do the same. Hell, Bush was the guy you got a beer with.
You see Fox news and their tv personalities? Mostly political hacks shouting out their guests.
Republicans are just as guilty. Obama is probably the first not to treat the public like idiots. Hillary and McCain are pretty good too. Actually, I think it's the media that is most at fault.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Technosoul Okay, someone forgot to mention what or who are the Democrats going to save America from?

It would be better to rephrase is the next President going to safe us from? I would say our economy from China and India. Our borders from illegal immigration. Our safety from Al Qaeda. Our energy needs from rising gas prices. Our citizens from out of control spending and taxation.

From Bin Laden and his puny army and thier homemade weapons?

I wouldn't under-estimate the enemy. They have a nice safe haven in Pakistan.

From all those Made In Hong Kong products?

China and India are being us right now. The more they encroach on us the more the American worker suffers.

From the oil industry?

I would rephrase that as dependence on oil. The rising gas prices are just as much to blame as food hikes and mortgage meltdown are.

From four more years of Bushism?

This is moot since Bush is leaving office and McCain is far from Bush (haha) in every way except Iraq!

From the Wealthy Few?

I would rephrase that from the wealthy few moving more business operations overseas. Keep hitting the American Corporations and more will be speaking Chinese, Indian and Mexican!

From greenhouse gasses?

It's one of them. Good thing both sides (McCain and Clintobama are going to ignore it)

From the ghost of Saddam and his WMDs?

Iraq is going to be a huge problem whether we stay or pull out!

From Doctor Big Bucks?

Huge problem and its getting bigger. First step should be stopping the free medical care to illegals.

From the Consitution (I tossed that one in for our die hard Ron Paul guy).

LOL, I would rephrase that from leftist politicians and activist judges that tramble on the constitution!

From McCain?

I would rephrase that to Clintobama

Okay, make up your mind, what do you want to get saved from?

The left?

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa They can save us from another imaginary weapons program. Grandpa h.

Maybe from people that believe in anarchy or communism/socialism. Both would be mistakes.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Winter wind Yes, because the Republicans have done such a good job of them (the democrats weren't the ones in power during 9-11 or any time after during the war on terror) But I think they will do it by having the diplomacy to get other countries to do the work for them. That's like asking someone to stop the tide. The Republicans can't deal with this any better then the dems. By setting hell-bent environmentalists on them. Well, as long as Hillary and Obama don't self destruct... Less tax cuts for those who don't need them (and support of the lawyers who make a living draining every penny from the Wealthy Few.) The dems are the ones who plant trees. Well, I could call an exorcist for the first. The second never existed in Iraq in the first place. ? We need saving from the Constitution? If the Dems got behind a single candidate, I think he would have a shot.

According to Ron Paul supporters the Consitution limits the federal government and their power to create a lot of departments to regulate the people, which is idealistically the duty of state government. Conforming to a strict and fundamentalistic interpretation of the Consitution would reduce the federal government and the office of Preisident to the size of a log cabin. No more federal income taxes, no more health care agendas, no more national parks, no more public education, no more using the military outside of the bounds of protecting our boarders here at home, no more homeland secuity department, do more war on drugs and other things like that. And so that is why I put that into the list.

[Technosoul]

You have a right to your opinon also. so I will not deny you your upside down, back to front, perception of things.

But why sit on a hard boiled egg when we can hatch a new one that is fresh?

[Century 25]

Quote by: Winter wind Hi Windy.. catching up with you on the rest: Quote: Quote by: century Are you living in Hong Kong..? Our media is basically a propaganda mill.. bought & paid for by the most $$$. haha, that's not your problem (only FOX's). Your problem is that the media is a commercial field. So to get you to watch, they use all sorts of tricks to entertain rather then inform and inquire. People can't buy the media because the media is run first and foremost what they think will interest people. I don't care if their budget is being run by a cooperation, if there some juicy piece of news on them, they'll run it. Be it a scandal or a public service.

Yeh.. it is that too, but once upon a time.. long ago.. the "news" used to be handled by reporters that were journalists.. and they did show the real thing. Haven't you seen the old video of the Vietnam War, when that old guy, Dan Rather was right there in the blood-fest..? I have seen old magazine pix of same.. very graphic. Anyway, I agree.. it is all junk food & is produced for ratings.

.....And next:

Quote by: Winter wind I don't doubt it, I just think the second a third party got power, they would change to follow this, mostly because this is inevitable. You are trying to convince over half of the American populous you are the right candidate. That takes a lot of money and you need to make a lot of friends. Somewhere along the line, what you think gets side lined. I don't think it would be any different for a third party candidate.

That's right Windy.. and we cannot get all 50 states in agreement to toss the "Electoral Collage" out.. and use the Democratic 'popular vote'.
That is why the situation is.. SOS.. different day/year/century. They (the "founders") stacked the deck.. made it quite impossible to amend.. except of course by overthrowing the whole mess.. fat chance.

This next part goes back to the owned media mess:

Quote by: Winter wind Because the FEC won't allow excessive violence. Though the news pushes the limit. However if you mean interest in Iraq has wained, that's because the public doesn't care anymore.

The FCC is also bought & paid for. That is one more ace they slid up their sleeve ( the MIMC) - it really is a long term process that has happened over many years. It is like a cancer. By the time the victim discovers his/her dilemma.. well.. it is too late.


As for the sappy folk song.. I think by looking at music historically, one often can "see" or read between the lines. We all know much has taken place in history that was never put down in print. Art & architecture is another window back in time. I find many things by digging into such.


.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Winter wind Well I'm taking one to the prom, one who's interested in politics. So that could work. (My girlfriend would make an awesome pres) I donno, the Republicans do the same. Hell, Bush was the guy you got a beer with. You see Fox news and their tv personalities? Mostly political hacks shouting out their guests. Republicans are just as guilty. Obama is probably the first not to treat the public like idiots. Hillary and McCain are pretty good too. Actually, I think it's the media that is most at fault.

California state now has a Republican Gov. I will not ask if you live in Cal because you might be under the age of 18. Anyway someone with the name Windy would be perfect for Washington DC with all those hot air politics. ha. Is Windy a boyish name? Not sure.

[Technosoul]

Anyway Obama is someone with new ideas, and so is Clinton, where as McCain is not the kind of person to think intellectual like, he sort of thinks in "grunts" and with simplistic short sightedness.

Like "we gotta win the war" when he has no idea why.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: techno You have a right to your opinon also. so I will not deny you your upside down, back to front, perception of things. But why sit on a hard boiled egg when we can hatch a new one that is fresh?

Wait, who are you supporting?

Quote by: century Yeh.. it is that too, but once upon a time.. long ago.. the "news" used to be handled by reporters that were journalists.. and they did show the real thing. Haven't you seen the old video of the Vietnam War, when that old guy, Dan Rather was right there in the blood-fest..? I have seen old magazine pix of same.. very graphic. Anyway, I agree.. it is all junk food & is produced for ratings.

Boy how the media has changed.

The average length of a sound bite went from 45 seconds in the 1900s to 7 seconds today.

And the lack of judgment seen in news is problematic believe it or not. Hitler, if he was living today, would be able to have a normal interview on Larry King Live and walk off no different then if Brittney Spears was just on.

Quote by: century That's right Windy.. and we cannot get all 50 states in agreement to toss the "Electoral Collage" out.. and use the Democratic 'popular vote'.

I actually think this isn't impossible. With the 2000 elections in such controversy, there might be the popular support for it.

That is why the situation is.. SOS.. different day/year/century. They (the "founders") stacked the deck.. made it quite impossible to amend.. except of course by overthrowing the whole mess.. fat chance.

They've made amendments before. I'm sure the government isn't done yet.

The FCC is also bought & paid for.

It's called the Iron Triangle of politics.

Interest group (Media Cooperation), Oversight committee in the house, and the government agency (FCC).

The interest group pays the house who make the laws that the FCC enforce.

Quote by: techno California state now has a Republican Gov. I will not ask if you live in Cal because you might be under the age of 18. Anyway someone with the name Windy would be perfect for Washington DC with all those hot air politics. ha. Is Windy a boyish name? Not sure.

Ouch. Naw, winter wind is a chopin etude of all things...

Anyway Obama is someone with new ideas, and so is Clinton, where as McCain is not the kind of person to think intellectual like, he sort of thinks in "grunts" and with simplistic short sightedness. Like "we gotta win the war" when he has no idea why.

I respect McCain. He got the McCain Feingold (I know I spelled that wrong) Bill passed which got rid of soft money contributions. He doesn't just stick with his party, and he's been a senator since the dawn of time.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Winter wind Wait, who are you supporting? Boy how the media has changed. The average length of a sound bite went from 45 seconds in the 1900s to 7 seconds today. And the lack of judgment seen in news is problematic believe it or not. Hitler, if he was living today, would be able to have a normal interview on Larry King Live and walk off no different then if Brittney Spears was just on. I am supporting any Democrat who wants to put down McCain. McCain might have been a good POW but he would not be a good President. I actually think this isn't impossible. With the 2000 elections in such controversy, there might be the popular support for it. They've made amendments before. I'm sure the government isn't done yet. It's called the Iron Triangle of politics. Interest group (Media Cooperation), Oversight committee in the house, and the government agency (FCC). The interest group pays the house who make the laws that the FCC enforce. Ouch. Naw, winter wind is a chopin etude of all things... I respect McCain. He got the McCain Feingold (I know I spelled that wrong) Bill passed which got rid of soft money contributions. He doesn't just stick with his party, and he's been a senator since the dawn of time.

I would support any Democrat that can keep McCain out of the White House. McCain might of been a good POW but would not be a good President, mainly because of his views about Iraq and his lack of understanding concerning domestic problems. The soft money bill to help stop speical interest funding of elections that he signed (was created by a Democrat) was good thinking. Even Bush came up with a few good ideas but overall bad ones.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 Maybe from people that believe in anarchy or communism/socialism. Both would be mistakes.

I have no idea what you even mean.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Technosoul I would support any Democrat that can keep McCain out of the White House. McCain might of been a good POW but would not be a good President, mainly because of his views about Iraq and his lack of understanding concerning domestic problems.

I'm not supporting the White House anymore. I think there's too much fraternization with the enemy. It's a small personal step forward in solving our foreign and domestic problems.

Grandpa h.

[trobd]

it hard on the libertarians these days. If democrats win they will increase taxation and socialist programs (medicare, social security, UHC, welfare). But if republicans win the precious few civil liberties left will be gone. Can you believe the madness with civil forfeiture these days, then the whole telecom immunity thing.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Technosoul According to Ron Paul supporters the Consitution limits the federal government and their power to create a lot of departments to regulate the people, which is idealistically the duty of state government. Conforming to a strict and fundamentalistic interpretation of the Consitution would reduce the federal government and the office of Preisident to the size of a log cabin. No more federal income taxes, no more health care agendas, no more national parks, no more public education, no more using the military outside of the bounds of protecting our boarders here at home, no more homeland secuity department, do more war on drugs and other things like that. And so that is why I put that into the list.

This might be what he preaches but Ron Paul designated $22 million in pork last year. More then fellow Republican candidates McCain, Tancredo and Hunter and even a fellow Democratic candidate Biden!

The spending power is exclusively held by Congress so even if he wants this it would still be an uphill battle.

Ron Paul wants to:
-Completely secure the borders - very good idea (this goes along with the Libertarian ideal that no right is more precious then property rights).
-No military use outside of US borders, unless Congress delcares war. Also not a bad idea.
-Cut off all aid around the world. Mixed feeling here. While we are hurting at home, letting the rest of the world fall to sh1t might (will?) bite us in the ass
-Schooling allow more privatized school system. Something needs to be done because the current public/government run system is a complete failure.
- Drastically lowering taxations and spending. This is a must. Our forefather fought a war to free us from taxations that wasn't even close to what it is now.
- No UHC: This is tricky and I am not going to touch it here. But I think the Democratic plan for healthcare will raise taxes too much.
- Insure our 2nd amendment rights. The D's want to take it away and Libertarians want to insure it. I side with the Libs here.
- End the war on drugs and prostitution. I agree here too.
- End income taxes and most taxes. I like Huckabees plan best for a fair tax. Our high Corporation taxation and regulation is why we are losing the undeclared "trade war" to China, India and the 3rd world. Learn from Dubai. 0 corporate taxation = corporations flocking to your country!

If I had to choose between the Libertarians and Democrats, the choice would be so easy.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: technosoul I would support any Democrat that can keep McCain out of the White House. McCain might of been a good POW but would not be a good President, mainly because of his views about Iraq and his lack of understanding concerning domestic problems. The soft money bill to help stop speical interest funding of elections that he signed (was created by a Democrat) was good thinking. Even Bush came up with a few good ideas but overall bad ones.

It might be better if you quoted each of my arguments individually then just doing a block quote (but whatever floats your boat).

And I think McCain, for all his quirks, is a Republican at the end of the day. He isn't going to run too far from his party on the Iraq war.

I just think for a Republican at this time, he's pretty good. Oh and his domestic policies are reasonable. Not brilliant, but no worse then many presidents we've elected.

Oh and he's a couple times smarter then Bush and better at working the legislative branch (which hasn't been seen since LBJ).

[GHook93]

Quote by: Technosoul California state now has a Republican Gov. .

Republican in name only he is decision-wise he's a Democrat.

[Century 25]

..to toss the "Electoral Collage" out.. and use the Democratic 'popular vote'.

windy said:

I actually think this isn't impossible. With the 2000 elections in such controversy, there might be the popular support for it.

You have forgotten.. they (founders) stacked the deck, way back when, and considering the stakes of the "game" - they don't plan to ever lose.. or to break even. They always want to win. No matter what. And so they do.

You could stand on the corner of any busy street & hand out free $$$ and you couldn't get all or even most people to accept it.

This is from the NY times:

Editorial- "Drop Out of the College" (Published: March 14, 2006)

"The Electoral College is an antidemocratic relic. Everyone who remembers 2000 knows that it can lead to the election of the candidate who loses the popular vote as president. But the Electoral College's other serious flaws are perhaps even more debilitating for a democracy. It focuses presidential elections on just a handful of battleground states, and pushes the rest of the nation's voters to the sidelines. There is an innovative new proposal for states to take the lead in undoing the Electoral College. Legislatures across the country should get behind it. Both parties should have reason to fear the college's perverse effects. In 2000, the Democrats lost out. But in 2004, a shift of 60,000 votes in Ohio would have elected John Kerry, even though he lost the national popular vote decisively. Just as serious is the way the Electoral College distorts presidential campaigns. Candidates have no incentive to campaign in, or address the concerns of, states that reliably vote for a particular party. In recent years, the battleground in presidential elections has shrunk drastically. In 1960, 24 states, with 327 electoral votes, were battleground states, according to estimates by National Popular Vote, the bipartisan coalition making the new proposal. In 2004, only 13 states, with 159 electoral votes, were. As a result, campaigns and national priorities are stacked in favor of a few strategic states. Ethanol fuel, a pet issue of Iowa farmers, is discussed a lot. But issues of equal concern to states like Alabama, California, New York and Indiana are not. The Electoral College discourages turnout because voters in two-thirds of the nation know well before Election Day who will win their states. It also discriminates among voters by weighing presidential votes unequally. A Wyoming voter has about four times as much impact on selecting that state's electors as a California voter does on selecting that state's. The answer to all of these problems is direct election of the president. Past attempts to abolish the Electoral College by amending the Constitution have run into difficulty. But National Popular Vote, which includes several former members of Congress, is offering an ingenious solution that would not require a constitutional amendment. It proposes that states commit to casting their electoral votes for the winner of the national popular vote. These promises would become binding only when states representing a majority of the Electoral College signed on. Then any candidate who won the popular vote would be sure to win the White House. The coalition is starting out by trying to have laws passed in Illinois and a few other states. Americans are rightly cautious about tinkering with mechanisms established by the Constitution. But throughout the nation's history, there have been a series of reforms affecting how elections are conducted, like the ones that gave blacks and women the vote and provided for the direct election of United States senators. Sidestepping the Electoral College would be in this worthy tradition of making American democracy more democratic."

It was quashed before it got anywhere..



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