Vote Democrat to save America?

[Technosoul]

[quote=GHook93;499985]Interpretations of the constitutions. I have read many many opinions and I question many opinions both conservative and liberal. If you think they always get it right how do you account for the ruling that found the separate, but equal doctrine (Plessy v. Ferguson)! Liberal judge sway from the constitution more than the conservative judges do!

PART ONE.
Technosoul - Each case has a lot of indivdual things that judges take into account and so one case might not be a blacket approval for all such cases. The Consitution can only sway in areas where it's details are not clearly outlined.

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Yes, but this won't be a simple divorce case. This would be an appeal to the supreme court voiding a marriage ab initio.

Technosoul - They already ruled on the case about gay marrages and each state must honor what another state so authorized.

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To answer that question no its not its colonialism. But preemptive war making is historically a Democratic aspect. Spanish American, Korean, Vietnam, Kosovo were all stated by Democrats. The Bush tandem are Republicans that buck the trend. I can't really fault Sr for Desert Storm or Jr for Afghanistan (we were attack by elements of Afghanistan and I firmly support that war).

Technosoul responds - Rumsfield gave Saddam the green light to attack Kuwait. Afganistan was approved of by Democrats and the UN. The southern Nam government requested our help but later Republican leadership miss-managed the war. Kosovo was requested by the U.N. The Spanish American war was due to Mexico attacking us for stealing their land.
The Iraq war was requested by the Vice President on behalf of Halliburton.

*********

We live in a dangerous world my friend. The libs can pretend we don't and cry up American Government conspiracies all they want, but the fact remains American needs a strong military.

Technosoul reponds - That is why we need Democrats to conduct talks and find peaceful solutions. The military in Kosovo was strong under the intelligent leadership of Democrats. You guys just had the wrong Commander and Chief to deal with terrorism.

*********




LOLOLOLOL, did you just say fair share of taxes! You have to be joking. Rich people already pay 80% of the taxes. They pay their share.

Technosoul responds - You are useing the wrong stats and coming up with missleading numbers.

See PART TWO in next posting.

[Technosoul]

[quote=GHook


What by raising corporate taxes and regulations? That is a sure fire way to increase the exodus overseas. McCain's plan is to cut taxes and spending and ease regulations and that is how jolt the economy. Both taxes and spending increased under Bush, so Bush's failed policies were right in line with the Democrats.


How? By socializing healthcare. Be careful what you wish for.

Techno responds

We need to raise the local regulations because Bush de-regulated the amount of polution allowed, etc. Just like his copycat McCain favors.

Some companies went to China where nothing is regulated and we ended up with toys that have lead poisoning and drugs that are killing people and so your idea of not regulating industry amounts to a crime directed at us and the security of consumers here.

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How by magic or by a strict refusal to drill for domestic sources in AK and the Gulf?

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There is nothing magical about the science of bio-fuels and other things that can replace fosil fuels. The technology is ready to be put into action by the wisdom of Democrats. We have wells in the Gulf. But the AK and the wetlands of the Everglades are off limits because those are wildlife areas. Even if used the oil would only last 60 yrs and it would take 15 years to get the first drop on the market (at a cost of millions of dollars). In Calif we produce more then enough oil for our own state and yet we are paying an average of 50 cents more per gal at pumps. Local production would raise the cost at the gas pump.

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LOL, still not one answer. Only empty promises. The only promise the Democrats will fill is raising taxes and wasteful spending 10 fold.

Technosoul responds.

Those are just false myths being spun by Republicans. Unless you have a crystal ball you should not just make up rumors.
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Que? You have proof of that, because that goes against everything I saw when I went to school in AZ and every employment statistic printed!

Technosoul repsonds

Arizona is not a good place for employment because McCain did not help out the economy of his own state.
*******

Hardworking no doubt, but they are not advancing up the economic scale like you say. If they did they would be smart and vote Republican.

Technosoul responds.
Mexican Americans are advancing the economics as much as any other race.

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Blaming the victims? Blacks are getting ethnically cleansed in LA.

Technosoul responds.

African Americans can get jobs if they are willing to work, no one is preventing that as long as jobs are created to meet the demands of people needing employment. If Blacks are victims then it is because of White people - just ask Rev Wright.

********


They also like McCain because of McCain/Kennedy! The Latinos will vote for McCain in numbers, I will put money on that.

Technosol Responds

Don't bet too much as you will loose that bet. Most of them will vote Democratic and they prefer Hillary Clinton. By and large many will not vote unless something comes up that directly effects their concerns.
Hillary won Texas where we have a large Mexican American community.

**********


Jewish American is one of the most affluent and wealthiest voting blocks per capitia in America and its been that way for a while. Nevertheless that Jewish vote has overwelmingly voted Democratic throughout the 20th century.


Jews won't vote for another Jew or a party just because of this.


See people read way too much into the antisemitic rhetoric. I posted a statistic a while back stating that the Jewish American were over-welming against the war from the being. I don't have time to locate it now.


LOL, this is a false conspiracy. I don't think Jews were too afraid of this until Wright controversy broke. But he is not a Muslim and I doubt his time in Indonesia had that much of an effect on him.

Technosoul Responds.

Right. The Jewish community does not vote for economical reasons but for other reasons, reasons the Democrats are most likely to best answer. Obama spoke about his schooldays in Idonesia at the Islamic schools during the Compassion Forum and did not find that as a defult of his, although some Jewish people might not like him for being so nice to Iran leaders he can pick up a lot of votes from our own Islamic voters here in the USA. A fairly large block of voters not being taken into account by the news "experts".

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Bush a dictator? Does the left have no honor? He is a poor President that got us into the biggest military blunder in our history, but he is far from a dictator. And taxes and non-military spending increases are liberal (aka Democrated philosophies), both which took place in great numbers during Bush's Presidency.

Technosoul Responds.
Bush thinks like a dictator with his go it alone attitude. Nearly all domestic programs have had budget cuts under the Bush and Republican Congress. ********


Que? He hasn't debated either. Interparty debates happen after the primaries.

Technosoul repsonds.
He did not have an offical debate but they debated what Obama said about terrorism in Iraq - which exchanges were aired in the news. McCain sort of oursmarted Obama in that exchange of words.

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Where do you get your information from? This is nonsense. All the left does is cry that the only thing that we spend money on is Iraq. The government wastefully spends on a lot of places, but the left is OK with that. All they will do is raise the red herring of military spending instead. McCain has never approved a wasteful pork barrel project and has done a pretty good job as senator in AZ. On the other hand Clinton pork spending is near the top.[/QUOTE]

I get my information by keeping well informed via a lot of sources.

New York had lots of needs after 9-11 and it contains an important city, I do not see where she wasted money on useless pork. McCain only had to deal with a state mostly covered in catus and the grand canyon. However McCain in a statement yesterday has vowed to spend tens of millions dollars to restore New Orliens and to build a levie that can withstand a point 5 hurricane. A major and much needed pork project that the Bush people failed to do. He did not say how he would pay for that pork expendature if elected. But us Democrats give him a good pat on the back for agreeing to go along with our idea about doing that.

My comments are posted between the dotted lines.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: ghook First off I am for lower taxes and spending for everyone. Your 18 correct? You haven't lived on your own yet. I was similar at 18-22, then at 24 when I moved finally lived on my own paid my own rent and car payment I saw the system for what it was.

I don't think that's an invalid argument (I'm 17). However, at the end of the day, the government needs some money and it needs to get it somewhere, so I'm not too upset about it.

As for amount, we should cut what?

Quote by: ghook I firmly support the fair tax. This could make us compete with China and the 3rd world for manufacturing jobs.

Wonderful. Where are the statistics?

[Osborn F Enready]

Vote Democrat to save America?!?!?

ROFLMAO.....

Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty for why this nation is where it is.....

Picking between the lesser of two great evils is still picking evil, still will get you more of the same, and just turns over corruption from one corrupt party to another corrupt party, both of which have political agendas to destroy national, state and individual sovereignty.

No thanks..... I'll vote for sanity, which implies I will be voting for neither of the major parties candidates.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: osborn F Enready Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty for why this nation is where it is..... Picking between the lesser of two great evils is still picking evil, still will get you more of the same, and just turns over corruption from one corrupt party to another corrupt party, both of which have political agendas to destroy national, state and individual sovereignty. No thanks..... I'll vote for sanity, which implies I will be voting for neither of the major parties candidates.

He's back!

Well, if you don't like it, you should run for office.

[Osborn F Enready]

Winter Wind said: He's back! Well, if you don't like it, you should run for office.

Perhaps I will, but that is far from my only option.

[Winter wind]

plus, you've got to convince people you're right (sucks living in a democracy.)

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Winter wind (sucks living in a democracy.)

What's this, true colors?


Freudian slip?

[Winter wind]

Quote by: mb What's this, true colors? Freudian slip?

nope, just my dark sense of humor.

[Technosoul]

The O.P. should have read: "Can the Democrats save our country form the Republicans. Because after all is said and done that is what this election is all about. It is about chaning the Republican policies about war and domestic problems.
Even McCain knows that but has not really offered anything sound to make things better other then trying to imatate Hillary by visiting poor neighborhoods. Next thing he might try is wearing some Al Jolson make-up.

Basic fact: The people want a change, the Democrats want change, and that is what will unite the majority after the primaries are finished.

[Century 25]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Vote Democrat to save America?!?!? ROFLMAO..... Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty for why this nation is where it is..... Picking between the lesser of two great evils is still picking evil, still will get you more of the same, and just turns over corruption from one corrupt party to another corrupt party, both of which have political agendas to destroy national, state and individual sovereignty. No thanks..... I'll vote for sanity, which implies I will be voting for neither of the major parties candidates.

"If ignorance were bliss, Americans would be ecstatic"

Yes.. both parties are way too in hock for their special interest groups that are backing them. I think voting is meaningless too. A vote is merely a "suggestion" to the electors.. and now.. with the 'souupreeem' court's 5-4 plurality.. it is totally screwed.. I mean skewed, as in: "the fix is in"

I have read "The Twilight of American Culture" and "Dark Ages America"
by Morris Berman, and concur with his summation of where we are surely going.. (check out his blog: DARK AGES AMERICA -- Blog for Morris Berman)

Even under the very best of circumstances, as Berman wrote, the best that could happen is a slowing of our descent into the garbage dump of history's failures.

But I don't see the best of circumstances even getting into the mix.. As Murphy wrote: "Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse" and.. "Things get worse under pressure" - finally: "Everything goes wrong all at once."

Don't worry.. be happy

.

[Winter wind]

And the populist has his say.

Most of what you said is a composition of several misconceptions on the government.

Quote by: century25 Yes.. both parties are way too in hock for their special interest groups that are backing them. I think voting is meaningless too.

candidates aren't elected by popular vote?

And you need special interests. Some are just big business, but most are genuine causes. Labor unions, woman's rights, right to life, right to left, yada. It's not like all special interests are not representative of voters opinions. It's just a method of bringing topics of discussion to a congressman.

A vote is merely a "suggestion" to the electors.. and now.. with the 'souupreeem' court's 5-4 plurality.. it is totally screwed.. I mean skewed, as in: "the fix is in"

comes from having an overly complex system of voting people in (the idea comes from the founders)

Oh and for all of youse who think gridlock is bad. Checkout the country where everything happens how one person wants it.

[Century 25]

Quote by: Winter wind And the populist has his say. Most of what you said is a composition of several misconceptions on the government. candidates aren't elected by popular vote? And you need special interests. Some are just big business, but most are genuine causes. Labor unions, woman's rights, right to life, right to left, yada. It's not like all special interests are not representative of voters opinions. It's just a method of bringing topics of discussion to a congressman. comes from having an overly complex system of voting people in (the idea comes from the founders) Oh and for all of youse who think gridlock is bad. Checkout the country where everything happens how one person wants it.

No, we do not have a presidential election by popular vote.
Yes, we need the interest groups to spread the message of what requires attention.. BUT, it is those with $$$ that have the loudest voice.. and for several years the $$$ voice has it's own propaganda media that broadcasts 24/7.. since they bought the media & the FCC here. The FCC had rules about fairness in broadcasting or other distribution of one-sided opinions. But, the $$$ special interests "bought" & paid for the FCC too. We are screwed. There is no way to right the wrongs.


.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: century25 Yes, we need the interest groups to spread the message of what requires attention.. BUT, it is those with $$$ that have the loudest voice..

believe it or not, that isn't the case. It's the group with the most media focus that gets the loudest voice. This means right to life, big issue and lots of coverage, will take precedent over, say, jp morgan.

No, we do not have a presidential election by popular vote.

Just as the founders intended.

[Technosoul]

The idea that both poltical parties are in co-hoots with special interest groups is an poltical phillosophy being advocated by the 3rd praty groups who desire to become one of the top two major parties.

The problem all started when they got this notion that both poltical camps should unite and work together to get something done in Washington. So both sides attempted to move to the center as moderates. Setting an agenda of watered down bills that would please both sides because they did not take any strong measures in tow.

Then the government got confused and did not see the difference between the rights of individuals and the rights of an business identity. Big Business was given "individual rights" which should not be inalienable to a business. The left wing became more moderate about that agenda as it showly ate away at the middle class section of our country, in favor of the wealthy few and those on welfare, but not in favor of the middle road workers of America.

The Republicans got more rights for the Wealthy Few and the Democrats got more rights for the unemployed, but the middle class was overlooked and were forced to eather move on up into the wealthy brackets or fall into what we now call the working poor.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Winter wind Just as the founders intended.

Oh please...


To even be considered in the "running" for being a candidate for the big two parties, you have to espouse all kind of elitist, establishment drivel, thus seperating any connection to popular vote, or common good.


The people paraded around in front of the cameras for us to choose from are selected from a group of people who already sold out all of the principles to represent the monied interests, and not We the People.


This is nothing like the Founding Fathers intended.

[Century 25]

Quote by: Winter wind believe it or not, that isn't the case. It's the group with the most media focus that gets the loudest voice. This means right to life, big issue and lots of coverage, will take precedent over, say, jp morgan. Just as the founders intended.

Are you living in Hong Kong..? Our media is basically a propaganda mill.. bought & paid for by the most $$$. We do not see, for example, the dirty.. bloody war that is killing thousands of our young people in Iraq, not to mention the gory and maimed that return home minus arms & legs.. and maybe vision. Then too, they hide the 10's of thousands that are in extreme post traumatic shock, they have lost marriages & jobs due to that. You should see our Phoenix Republic (newspaper) - you wouldn't guess there is a war going for all these years. No, the "big" headlines are usually sports related.. or some old feature stories about eye catching yada yada.. they even have 1 or 2 ad's running on front page.

As for our "founders" - HA..!! Our 'founders' were a bunch of grifters that established the "Virginia Company" when they landed (in of course, "Virginia") - and proceeded to pillage & rape the country. Too bad for the natives.. the Indian.. they are relegated to their "reservation" - and after all these years they have little but contempt for the wonderful & benevolent "Pilgrims" that invited themselves as master & guardian of their (Indians) country. Try reading the "Manifest Destiny" - how the Virginia Company & it's ilk decided they were the "chosen" people" -

Oh, yes, there have been people that tried to right as many wrongs as possible.. but.. they are dead. Murdered. Progress was made, yes. But it has been reversed and is careening out of control. No Barrack or Hillary or anyone can stop the monster. The MIMC.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Anybody here seen my old friend Abraham?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed lotta people but it seems the good they die young
You know I just looked around and he's gone

Anybody here seen my old friend John?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed lotta people but it seems the good they die young
I just looked around and he's gone

<brief instrumental interlude-organ>

Anybody here seen my old friend Martin?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed lotta people but it seems the good they die young
I just looked around and he's gone

Didn't you love the things that they stood for?
Didn't they try to find some good for you and me?

Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up over the hill
With Abraham, Martin, and John...


So far, no Presidential candidates seem ready to step into those shoes. Well.. who can blame them..?? The deck was stacked.. long ago.




.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: mb This is nothing like the Founding Fathers intended.

I was being sarcastic. (though they did build the system, so "bitter" would be a better word)

But let's play with this.

The people paraded around in front of the cameras for us to choose from are selected from a group of people who already sold out all of the principles to represent the monied interests, and not We the People.

I don't doubt it, I just think the second a third party got power, they would change to follow this, mostly because this is inevitable. You are trying to convince over half of the American populous you are the right candidate. That takes a lot of money and you need to make a lot of friends. Somewhere along the line, what you think gets side lined. I don't think it would be any different for a third party candidate.

Quote by: century Are you living in Hong Kong..? Our media is basically a propaganda mill.. bought & paid for by the most $$$.

haha, that's not your problem (only FOX's). Your problem is that the media is a commercial field. So to get you to watch, they use all sorts of tricks to entertain rather then inform and inquire. People can't buy the media because the media is run first and foremost what they think will interest people. I don't care if their budget is being run by a cooperation, if there some juicy piece of news on them, they'll run it. Be it a scandal or a public service.

We do not see, for example, the dirty.. bloody war that is killing thousands of our young people in Iraq, not to mention the gory and maimed that return home minus arms & legs.. and maybe vision.

Because the FEC won't allow excessive violence. Though the news pushes the limit. However if you mean interest in Iraq has wained, that's because the public doesn't care anymore.

Then too, they hide the 10's of thousands that are in extreme post traumatic shock, they have lost marriages & jobs due to that. You should see our Phoenix Republic (newspaper) - you wouldn't guess there is a war going for all these years. No, the "big" headlines are usually sports related.. or some old feature stories about eye catching yada yada.. they even have 1 or 2 ad's running on front page.

Because, to them, they don't think it will sell enough. It's boring.

As for our "founders" - HA..!! Our 'founders' were a bunch of grifters that established the "Virginia Company" when they landed (in of course, "Virginia") - and proceeded to pillage & rape the country.

I'm going to quote this to the Libertarians (that comment was really meant for them).

Oh, yes, there have been people that tried to right as many wrongs as possible.. but.. they are dead. Murdered. Progress was made, yes. But it has been reversed and is careening out of control. No Barrack or Hillary or anyone can stop the monster. The MIMC.

And then proceed into sappy folk song

well since you've already given up, why bother posting.

I personally think you are being melodramatic. I live in China for Christ's sake. You don't know how lucky you guys are. At least you have a media that will critique the government. At least you can say those things online. At least guanxi is frowned upon in America (relation based culture.)

Sound a bit like a teen who has been grounded.

[Century 25]

Quote by windy:

well since you've already given up, why bother posting. I personally think you are being melodramatic. I live in China for Christ's sake. You don't know how lucky you guys are. At least you have a media that will critique the government.

Lol.. "giving up" ?? I didn't say dying. As for our being critical about our government.. ha-ha. Very, very little of protests against bush-cheney & the War are shown here. The outspoken here are blasted & called traitors. Too many red necked ignorant people are sucked in by the trash spewed by the corporate owned media.

As for 'christ' - another load of trash. Be happy to live in HK, China is an up & coming country. We are the ones going down the drain.

.

[Technosoul]

America has come close to going down that mythical drain a number of times but we alway find ways to recover, because sooner or later Democrats come to the rescue with social programs and what not, and the will of the Amreican working class just gears up and will work things out.