Prisoners re-enter society

[herman_shaw]

Hi everyone, I think that every person has his right to live in a society no matter even if he was a prisoner in his early life. Most of the prisoners are racial or ethnic minorities and have difficulty in re-entering the society as they are faced with poverty and this leads to crime for which they are re-arrested are convicted and re-incarcerated and this adds a burden on the government in respect of tax-payers. What are your views on this?

[Winter wind]

Restorative justice over retributive justice?

Well, I think we need more of the former, but we still need to keep retributive justice.

So ya, work on making them fit to return to society.

[Anmon]

Quote by: herman_shaw as they are faced with poverty and this leads to crime for which they are re-arrested are convicted and re-incarcerated

aww the poor lazy criminals, how about at least trying to work before turning to crime to escape the 'poverty'

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon aww the poor lazy criminals, how about at least trying to work before turning to crime to escape the 'poverty'

Or, how about not systematically creating poverty to begin with?

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

Why would you create poverty in your own country, what benefit does it bring, its only a drain on your own resources.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon Why would you create poverty in your own country, what benefit does it bring, its only a drain on your own resources.

Well, the capitalist system works that way. Having no money is bad, so you're not entitled to resources -- hence, we have systematic poverty. That's what happens where elites own the resources. Where they don't, systematic poverty is harder to come by. There may still be natural poverty, but that is different.

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

I think if you had a look at socialist poverty, you would take the wests any day.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon I think if you had a look at socialist poverty, you would take the wests any day.

No, I wouldn't. I don't want poverty, nor do I want anybody as my leader -- either in the name of capitalism or socialism.

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

Well what do you want instead of capitalism or socialism?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon Well what do you want instead of capitalism or socialism?

What does my avatar say? Seriously, though, it's a shame people only associate socialism with the state, as if we couldn't possibly approximate a socialized system without the state.

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

Probably because thats the only example we have had so far of country's under socialism, its a nightmare that doesn't work in practice.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon Probably because thats the only example we have had so far of country's under socialism, its a nightmare that doesn't work in practice.

No, there was anarchist Spain:
YouTube - History of Spanish Anarchism p.1

Really, any human rights conscious society leans toward socialism more than it does the other way. It was heightened social consciousness that brought America to
favor equal rights for women, for example. Arguably, that was a socialist change.

As for how state socialism works in practice, I wouldn't say it doesn't work at all.
I know people from more socialist countries who, as far as I can tell, do no worse than those in more capitalist countries.

The fact is: Socialism is working rather well in the minds of some. It simply doesn't make sense to want unregulated capitalists.

Keep in mind, state socialism is not really what I advocate, but it's a myth that capitalism fosters freedom.

Grandpa h.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: grandpa What does my avatar say? Seriously, though, it's a shame people only associate socialism with the state, as if we couldn't possibly approximate a socialized system without the state. Grandpa h.

Mankind has had states in one form or another since the first tribal stongman called himself king. Especaily western Civilisation has been hugely dependent on the state. Plus, socialism most often refers to a statist government controlling resources for the good of the people, your avatar actually says communism, which to me espouses a lack of government as well as equitable distribution.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Mankind has had states in one form or another since the first tribal stongman called himself king. Especaily western Civilisation has been hugely dependent on the state.

It's been tough for many people, yes.

However, some essentially non-state societies have been able to co-exist in
relative peace and benefit one another mutally. People should have a natural aversion to King and state.

Grandpa h.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: grandpa However, some essentially non-state societies have been able to co-exist in relative peace and benefit one another mutally. People should have a natural aversion to King and state.

But not cooperation and a common forum to make decisions.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Winter wind But not cooperation and a common forum to make decisions.

What do you mean?

Grandpa h.

[Winter wind]

What do you mean?

Don't you need common forums like this one. A place where people come together and make collective decisions.

Also, don't you need an organization of some kind.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Winter wind Don't you need common forums like this one. A place where people come together and make collective decisions.

Of course common forums are desirable. Where did anyone say otherwise? Of course, it's always questionable to what extent decisions should be "collective," but that's a matter we can't answer perfectly.

Grandpa h.

[Matt W]

How about we stay on-topic?