Why is North Korea no longer an issue?

[GPIRS88]

Seriously! All this talk about Human Rights why not protest for LINK? (Liberation in North Korea)

Whats going on in those political death camps, the famines, the stranglehold the government holds over the people is far worse than whats going on in Tibet. Its the present day Holocaust!

Why isnt North Korea getting the bad press it deserves and why are these Tibetan protesters who know nothing about China and Tibet, teaching Chinese about moral authority?

[Rainbow]

Quote by: GPIRS88 Why is North Korea no longer an issue ?

That what mass-media is all about :
- brainwashing and money

[Anmon]

It was never really that big an excitement controversy etc stirring protest cause for leftys anyway.
Its the stuff like racism Bush oil etc that gets their excited little lefty hearts pumping with out raged indignation.
Gross violations of human rights are only popular with them, if its connected to other things they see that matter.
I mean how many thousands of them marched through our streets around the world to protest Rwanda? Or Mugabe? Or the situation in North Korea?
And now like Tibet, who they didn't really give a toss much about, until of course it got connected withe the Olympics.
Now its controversial, exciting, interesting and fashionable enough to warrant these jaded middle class pony tailed phoney's to go out in protest.
As soon as the Olympics are over you wont hear boo from them about Tibet.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: GPIRS88 Why isnt North Korea getting the bad press it deserves and why are these Tibetan protesters who know nothing about China and Tibet, teaching Chinese about moral authority?

They have no political influence over US politics. All "we" care about is if they have nuclear weapons.

[Matt W]

Quote by: GPIRS88 Seriously! All this talk about Human Rights why not protest for LINK? (Liberation in North Korea) Whats going on in those political death camps, the famines, the stranglehold the government holds over the people is far worse than whats going on in Tibet. Its the present day Holocaust! Why isnt North Korea getting the bad press it deserves and why are these Tibetan protesters who know nothing about China and Tibet, teaching Chinese about moral authority?

Because China is trying to promote itself and using using the Olympic flame as a 'beacon of harmony' and other such rubbish. They have set themselves up for a huge PR stunt, only to have it backfire on them.

Added to that, you have a visible rallying point & leader in the form of the Dalai Lhama for Tibetans - no such leader for escaped North Koreans exists - at least, not to the knowledge of the mass media.

[Voluntary]

China is committing an act of transgression. North Korea is not.

[GPIRS88]

Quote by: Matt W Because China is trying to promote itself and using using the Olympic flame as a 'beacon of harmony' and other such rubbish. They have set themselves up for a huge PR stunt, only to have it backfire on them. Added to that, you have a visible rallying point & leader in the form of the Dalai Lhama for Tibetans - no such leader for escaped North Koreans exists - at least, not to the knowledge of the mass media.

The Dali Lama isnt even calling for Tibetan Independence so who are they rallying behind?

China says Dalai Lama wants to hurt Olympics - China - MSNBC.com

^^ the accusation that he is behind the protest is baseless he even supports the summer games taking place in Beijing

so what are these liberators doing??

But i Do agree that the PRC is using the Olympics as a huge PR stunt....but why not? to go from a country of poor uneducated communist drones to an economic and military power house. Thats something to be proud off. And this is a poor line to draw the issue of human rights...Tibet under there own rule tortured their own people and had slaves.... China's history in the 19th and 20th century has been a bloody history surviving foreign occupation, Japanese invasion, a civil war and Mao's cultural revolution. ( and Tienanmen Square of course) After all that the country now has finally stabilized and reformed.

North Korea today, is what China would be if it stuck with the cultural revolution. Millions are dying and they have the potential to destabilize the powers in East Asia.

Human Rights in China is heaven compared to whats going on in North Korea.

Quote by: Voluntary China is committing an act of transgression. North Korea is not.

Whats the Transgression?

To suppress a RIOT

North Korea is killing people for having cell phones
Thats not going over the line just a bit????

[Matt W]

The PRC said they'd improve human rights if they won the Olympics. They haven't. You reap what you sow.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: GPIRS88 Whats the Transgression? To suppress a RIOT North Korea is killing people for having cell phones Thats not going over the line just a bit????

You are correct. I should have elaborated. China is committing "national sovereignty" transgression while North Korea is committing "personal sovereignty" transgression.

[GPIRS88]

Quote by: Matt W The PRC said they'd improve human rights if they won the Olympics. They haven't. You reap what you sow.

That depends on what your definition of human rights?

if you compare China 1970 to China 2008 poverty levels have gone down and living standards have gone up.

People are driving cars, working, earning a living, supporting themselves, EATING, working in trades versus riding bikes, starving, poor and illiterate

And again Tibetan Unrest vs Tienanmen Square

Which of the two was better handled?

Im not saying China is perfect but considering the circumstances...not too long ago China was at North Korea's status. Realistically do you personally think a country of 1.3 Billion could go from massacring students to fun loving people in the span of less than 20 years?

Its not like there hasnt been any progress lol

Quote by: Voluntary You are correct. I should have elaborated. China is committing "national sovereignty" transgression while North Korea is committing "personal sovereignty" transgression.

Thats debatable in the other threads....but again the DALI LAMA ISNT CALLING FOR A FREE TIBET.

So a highly complex issue of sovereignty in a region where people can eat, drive and work deserves global attention....

But a present day holocaust where children are starving, families are punished for the acts of other family members, and a dead body on the street is considered common deserves to be ignored....

[Matt W]

Its not like there hasnt been any progress lol

Certainly, but at the time of bidding for the Olympic Games, China made certain undertakings to the international community. Have they been fulfilled? Doesn't look like it.

China still has yet to confirm free internet access for foreign journalists going to cover the games, which is ridiculous. And then there's Tibet.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: GPIRS88 But a present day holocaust where children are starving, families are punished for the acts of other family members, and a dead body on the street is considered common deserves to be ignored....

Who are being forced into ovens? It is not a present day holocaust.

I am for a free Tibet. Why does China want to claim it?

[GPIRS88]

Quote by: Matt W Certainly, but at the time of bidding for the Olympic Games, China made certain undertakings to the international community. Have they been fulfilled? Doesn't look like it. China still has yet to confirm free internet access for foreign journalists going to cover the games, which is ridiculous. And then there's Tibet.

The bid was awarded in 2001? i think....

Where is the line drawn in improvement?

was there suppose to be a limit of only 50 beatings a year? where is the limit and who holds the moral authority?

Lets not forget the history

China use to be under foreign occupation and was being dismantled by colonizers not too long ago. Im not saying two wrongs make a right but none of these countries have the right to dictate the political borders of China.

Quote by: Voluntary Who are being forced into ovens? It is not a present day holocaust. I am for a free Tibet. Why does China want to claim it?

The families of defected North Korean refugees are rounded up and punished for the crimes of their family members in political prison, anyone who goes against the views of Kim Jung-il are sent to labor camps, and anyone who tries to smuggle people out of the country are publicly executed.

Why does China keep Tibet?

Buffering zone between China and India, territory, a population with economic potential etc..

Why cant China free Tibet?

I refer you to the first post of the "Whos saying Free Tibet" thread

and THE DALI LAMA ISNT CALLING FOR A FREE TIBET ANYWAY

[Matt W]

And? The people of Tibet seem to be?

Regardless of the history, if you make a committment, you are expected to stick to it.

[Voluntary]

Quote by: GPIRS88 The families of defected North Korean refugees are rounded up and punished for the crimes of their family members in political prison, anyone who goes against the views of Kim Jung-il are sent to labor camps, and anyone who tries to smuggle people out of the country are publicly executed. Why does China keep Tibet? Buffering zone between China and India, territory, a population with economic potential etc.. Why cant China free Tibet? I refer you to the first post of the "Whos saying Free Tibet" thread and THE DALI LAMA ISNT CALLING FOR A FREE TIBET ANYWAY

It is a clear violation of natural law and individual rights. What can I do?

[GPIRS88]

Quote by: Matt W And? The people of Tibet seem to be? Regardless of the history, if you make a committment, you are expected to stick to it.

But you have to understand that different people have different views on "what is improving human rights" and they knew who they were awarding the olympics too.

Regardless of the History? you cant disregard history in this issue otherwise your bound to repeat the mistakes

In China's long 5000 year history it has been a continued cycle of separation and chaos followed by unification and peace.

Whats scary is that modern China's rise is yet to hit its full potential since its still yet to be unified (Taiwan).

If Tibet separates Xinjiang is guaranteed to follow (since they have a terrorist group that has acted with violence before) and that would be a huge loss in China's power both in military and economy.

The Tibetan people are fighting for cultural preservation and a fair autonomous status. That does not mean a sovereign TibetI wont lie i believe they were cheated out of their fair share of representation that was promised in exchange for support before the establishment of the PRC in 1949.

But again THE EXILED DALI LAMA ISNT CALLING FOR A FREE TIBET and i would bet my used nissan that stopping the olympics wont free Tibet

If you still believe in a free Tibet in spite of all these political and historical factors does that mean i ll see you here in Vancouver protesting for Quebec Independence? lol

Quote by: Voluntary It is a clear violation of natural law and individual rights. What can I do?

Well if you really want to help listen to what the Dali Lama believes in

Call for "TALK TO TIBET", both sides the PRC and the Dali Lama arent even talking to each other to work things out.

These FREE TIBET demonstration pisses off Chinese citizens and Chinese overseas. It distances both sides of the table and nothing gets done because of it. Its getting to the point where both sides are making ridiculous accusations like "China staged the riots to make Tibetans look violent" or "the Dali Lama has Nazi supporters".

[Matt W]

If you still believe in a free Tibet in spite of all these political and historical factors does that mean i ll see you here in Vancouver protesting for Quebec Independence? lol

Given it's on the other side of the Atlantic, no.

The people of Tibet have no representation, have no voice within China. Peaceful protests are met with violence....so therefore the violence begets violence. Again, you reap what you sow.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Matt W Given it's on the other side of the Atlantic, no. The people of Tibet have no representation, have no voice within China.

In authoritarian societies, the state is God, and God is infinitely beyond the understanding of any human.

Grandpa h.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: GPIRS88 Seriously! All this talk about Human Rights why not protest for LINK? (Liberation in North Korea) Whats going on in those political death camps, the famines, the stranglehold the government holds over the people is far worse than whats going on in Tibet. Its the present day Holocaust! Why isnt North Korea getting the bad press it deserves and why are these Tibetan protesters who know nothing about China and Tibet, teaching Chinese about moral authority?

Because people are too busy whining about how this or that person said something that offended them.

[GPIRS88]

Quote by: Matt W Given it's on the other side of the Atlantic, no. The people of Tibet have no representation, have no voice within China. Peaceful protests are met with violence....so therefore the violence begets violence. Again, you reap what you sow.

Not every protest in China is met with violence. The Tibetans were attacking Hans... should they have stepped aside and let the Tibetans continue rioting?

Do they deserve a voice? Yes! but does that mean Free Tibet??? No!

Because the Dali Lama is calling for Autonomy not Sovereignty

Quote by: grandpa In authoritarian societies, the state is God, and God is infinitely beyond the understanding of any human. Grandpa h.

If you really think people are still brainwashed in China and view the CCP as gods then you are far behind the times....There are Muslims, Buddhist, Christians, and Catholics all practicing in the open. And China is still an authoritarian society.

Compare this to North Korea where the state is still god and puts down anyone who says otherwise....why isnt the issue of human rights directed at one of the worst violators in history?