N.J. High School Football Coach Has No Right To Encourage Student Prayers

[Mick Jagger]

N.J. High School Football Coach Has No Right To Encourage Student Prayers, Federal Appeals Court Says.....

Americans United: N.J. High School Football Coach Has No Right To Encourage Student Prayers, Federal Appeals Court Says

[Anmon]

Like a few prayers are going to hurt anyone.

[Jack]

That wasn't the point of the decision. Even a reverend agreed that public school was no place for religious indoctrination.

[Whilletal]

I agree you can't, and shouldn't, require anyone to pray. However I also think the other side of that coin is you can't, and shouldn't, disallow someone the right to pray.

[caphis]

Eh. I'm not the slighest bit religious, but I don't really see a problem with a football coach encouraging or suggesting prayer, as long as it's not required and a student's choice does not affect the relationship between coach and student or their grades/position/whatever is appropriate for the class/sport.

All that bothers me about the situation is that non-prayers were told they could wait in the bathroom. I'd have less of a problem with the situation if the coach said "I'm religious, and if any of you wish to, you can join me in a brief prayer in my office before the game." That seems like the extent of what I'd consider OK to encourage or suggest.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Whilletal I agree you can't, and shouldn't, require anyone to pray. However I also think the other side of that coin is you can't, and shouldn't, disallow someone the right to pray.

What, you couldn't pray before the event?


Poor, poor persecuted Christians.


I bet you guys would object if you found the Coach to be a Satanist, and the calls were for Satanist prayers.

[Anmon]

I bet you guys would object if you found the Coach to be a Satanist, and the calls were for Satanist prayers

hear us O dark masterrrr
rise from the pits of hellll!!!
devour the oppositionnnnn
we offer their hearttts in sacrifice to youuuu
send your flys
Oh winged demon Luciferrrr!!!!

yeah mate that would really go down well.

[caphis]

Quote by: Milton Bradley What, you couldn't pray before the event? Poor, poor persecuted Christians. I bet you guys would object if you found the Coach to be a Satanist, and the calls were for Satanist prayers.

You'd lose money on that bet.

[Anmon]

Quote by: caphis You'd lose money on that bet.

Are you trying to say a lot of young basket ballers are devotees of Satan?
Put the bong down son.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: caphis You'd lose money on that bet.

Are you kidding? Most of these "prayer in schools" types are the same people that still insist Obama is a Muslim (and therefore shouldn't be President). To quote America: The Book, they're after One Nation Under a Very Specific God.

BTW, I happen to be a Christian who is in favor of an extremely strong wall of separation between church and state. Any Christian (or any religious person) with a brain is.

[caphis]

Quote by: Anmon Are you trying to say a lot of young basket ballers are devotees of Satan? Put the bong down son.

Are you trying to say that you can't comprehend English text?

Quote by: Milton Bradley I bet you guys would object if you found the Coach to be a Satanist, and the calls were for Satanist prayers.

Quote by: me You'd lose money on that bet.

Meaning "if you were to bet that I'd object if I found out that the calls were for Satanist prayers, you would lose that bet, because I would not object."
Pick up a book, son.

Quote by: tivodan116 Are you kidding? Most of these "prayer in schools" types are the same people

I'm not a "prayer in school" type. I'm completely against mandating prayer. Milton Bradley's assertation was directed at "you guys" who didn't call foul on the coach immediately; myself included.

[Mick Jagger]

Quote by: Anmon Like a few prayers are going to hurt anyone.

Prayer isn't the issue, dude. Government authority over prayer is the issue.

[Mick Jagger]

Quote by: caphis Eh. I'm not the slighest bit religious, but I don't really see a problem with a football coach encouraging or suggesting prayer, as long as it's not required and a student's choice does not affect the relationship between coach and student or their grades/position/whatever is appropriate for the class/sport. All that bothers me about the situation is that non-prayers were told they could wait in the bathroom. I'd have less of a problem with the situation if the coach said "I'm religious, and if any of you wish to, you can join me in a brief prayer in my office before the game." That seems like the extent of what I'd consider OK to encourage or suggest.

The coach is an agent of the civil authorities. He has no authority whatsoever over the religious opinions of the players.

[Anmon]

Well thats what I was saying all along Caphis, that you did believe they would pray to Satan so you would not lose the bet.
Understand now?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Now, he can take a knee, but why can't the players just pray on their own silently?

[Anmon]

Quote by: Mick Jagger Prayer isn't the issue, dude. Government authority over prayer is the issue.

I'm aware of that sport, my comment was directed at the governments interference too, not at the actual subject of prayers being wrong.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: Anmon Like a few prayers are going to hurt anyone.

Make them... say... Wikka prayers. Let's see who howls in pain then.

Quote by: caphis Meaning "if you were to bet that I'd object if I found out that the calls were for Satanist prayers, you would lose that bet, because I would not object." Pick up a book, son.

Your enlightened self aside, I daresay any American community would march on the school with pitchforks and torches if they found out that anything of the sort... or even non-Christian prayers ...were being invoked to their precious children.

Quote by: Whilletal However I also think the other side of that coin is you can't, and shouldn't, disallow someone the right to pray.

No one's suggesting disallowing anyone the right to pray, Whilletal. Individual players can pray till they're blue in the face. They can pray before and after every play for all I care.

You just can't, in a government funded, compulsory public school, tell everyone to join in.

Quote by: Anmon 'm aware of that sport, my comment was directed at the governments interference too, not at the actual subject of prayers being wrong.

This is the opposite of government interference... it's government - in the form of public schools - staying OUT OF people's religion.

.

[caphis]

Quote by: Mick Jagger The coach is an agent of the civil authorities. He has no authority whatsoever over the religious opinions of the players.

I don't think the coach was trying to impose authority over the religious opinions of all of the players, but I don't know the specifics beyond what the story describes. I'm saying that I would have no problem if he and those players who were already religious wanted to go aside for a prayer before the game.

Quote by: Anmon Well thats what I was saying all along Caphis, that you did believe they would pray to Satan so you would not lose the bet. Understand now?

No, I don't believe that they would pray to Satan. I'm saying that IF they chose to pray, I don't care to whom they pray -- God, Allah, Satan, or Ron Paul.

Quote by: Sonart You just can't, in a government funded, compulsory public school, tell everyone to join in.

No one has thus far suggested that anyone be able to tell everyone to join in prayer. In fact, in the story in the OP, the coach didn't even require everyone to join.

[Anmon]

=Sonart;496880].

Make them... say... Wikka prayers. Let's see who howls in pain then.

Its wicca

wicca prayers are garbage compared to the power of Christian prayers.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: caphis No one has thus far suggested that anyone be able to tell everyone to join in prayer. In fact, in the story in the OP, the coach didn't even require everyone to join.

That's a copout, the old 'no one needs to join in if they don't want to' ploy. What you're doing is requiring everyone involved to publicly choose sides in a divisive moral controversy, and to make themselves open to the peer pressures that go with it.

Pray individually if you want to or don't, but don't make it a group participation event.

Quote by: Anmon Wicca prayers are garbage compared to the power of Christian prayers.

Says who... oh, that's right. Christians. How about a rousing Buddhist chant before the game. That'll get folks fired up. Or maybe an invocation to Kartikeya, the Hindu God of war. After all, we ain't gonna be playin' pattycake out there. Maybe a Muslim prayer of An-Nasr, for Victory.

The parents won't mind, right?

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