Peace through superior firepower

[Anmon]

Quote by: Sonart . LOLOL All evidence to the contrary. Our generous applications of shock & awe haven't eliminated the problems in Iraq, they've made them significantly worse. I see Boy George has informed us that we'll be reducing the number of American troops in Iraq... back to what they were for the last four years! And, we're begging for help in Afghanistan that our massive firepower apparently hasn't solved either. Yep, 5 years after the Bush League and Tommy Franks were promising that our troops would be out of Iraq by September of 2003, our military is on the verge of exhaustion, -- " Pentagon caught between exhausted US military, security in Iraq", the trillion dollar cost of the war has been a constant anchor around a U.S. economy in tatters, 4,000 of our troops are dead, with 30,000 maimed and wounded, America despised around the world, the American people divided. Yessiree, by all means... tell us how our massive firepower "Solved the Problem!" .

I don't actually believe the Americans have had any intention of really solving Iraq and Afghanistan's problems in the first place, see the building contracts not being properly supervised for instance, the only goals America had, was to remove a dictator they had set up, accomplished, secure oil supply's and contracts, accomplished, and have a military base dead smack in the middle east to launch more attacks from, also well accomplished, and for what little over 4,000 losses in 6 years, by any military handbook an over whelming success!
They say they will reduce numbers over there, yes they may, but then they could just as easily increase them if the need arose too.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: Anmon That is not your typical situation but, this is an extreme case you are using. I admit diplomacy was necessary here, otherwise the world would have got blown to bits, but to use diplomacy for every little situation is overkill, and usually solves nothing of the problem, especially with tin pot dictators.

And using firepower in every situation is also overkill. The real power lies in knowing to use which when. So saying diplomacy sucks is really rather false.

[Anmon]

It does suck, circumstance may force its usage, but its easier to get rid of a problem like a dictator by just shooting him.

[Winter wind]

It does suck, circumstance may force its usage, but its easier to get rid of a problem like a dictator by just shooting him.

Only if the dictator doesn't shoot back.

Plus, it has always been easier to shoot something then communicate with it. That really doesn't make it better.

[Anmon]

[=Winter wind;495647]Only if the dictator doesn't shoot back.

lol any planned special forces op would easily take care of that situation.

Plus, it has always been easier to shoot something then communicate with it. That really doesn't make it better.

Yes we really should communicate with these poor dictators, there just really misunderstood nice people aren't they?

[Winter wind]

Quote by: Anmon lol any planned special forces op would easily take care of that situation.

so does taking a plane hostage.

Yes we really should communicate with these poor dictators, there just really misunderstood nice people aren't they?

I was told Hitler loved puppies, mama's cooking, and built concentration camps because he was turned down at the prom.

But really, taking a step back and seeing this from a logical point of view. If you take out the dictator, you leave a power vacuum, so either you be sure you can deal with that and all the supporters of the dictator, or you deserve the typhoon you pull on your head.

It has been and always been more complicated then doing things James Bond style. Because the situation never seems to end when you want it.

[Anmon]

[=Winter wind;495653]so does taking a plane hostage.

Another situation easily taken care of, if your going to bring 9/11 in as not taken care of, well I dont believe Al Queda had anything to do with it, except as stooges of the CIA, that was an inside job planned for decades.

I was told Hitler loved puppies, mama's cooking, and built concentration camps because he was turned down at the prom.

Try Vienna Art school.

But really, taking a step back and seeing this from a logical point of view. If you take out the dictator, you leave a power vacuum, so either you be sure you can deal with that and all the supporters of the dictator, or you deserve the typhoon you pull on your head.

Then deal with them, you seem to believe that these guys are hard to beat, but their not, all most of them have are a lot of 3rd rate weapons and lots of macho thugs, the only reason their still in power is because there allowed to be.

It has been and always been more complicated then doing things James Bond style. Because the situation never seems to end when you want it.

A SAS op is not James Bond Style.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon Another situation easily taken care of, if your going to bring 9/11 in as not taken care of, well I dont believe Al Queda had anything to do with it, except as stooges of the CIA, that was an inside job planned for decades.

How do you know it had anything to do with the CIA?

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

CIA are behind all the coverups, do you really think that those planes hit the towers without their involvement?
What about that plane that supposedly crashed in Pennsylvania, they found no bits of it bigger than a phone book given by one reporter, where were all the bodies? Why? because it was blown out of the sky.
And if you see the pentagon strike its obvious a missile did that damage not a plane, theres a large round hole that goes through five separated steel reinforced concrete walls, too small for a plane to make even if it could somehow miraculously penetrate that far, definitely not damage done by a plane.
Where were the wings? They found no planes wings or anything except bits of conveniently scattered plane parts, where were the bodies? Where was the plane? It wouldn't have just discinigrated like that, it would have gone in a little, exploded a bit(not into millions of tiny pieces like this one apparently did) then bounced back onto the lawn.
It was a missile strike.
And they killed Kennedy, because he was going to stop the CIA 's plans for America going into Vietnam, LHO was set up to take the fall for it.

[Matt W]

Let's stay on-topic, please.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Anmon Julius Caesar was about to embark on a 5 year campaign against the Scythia'ns, it was to be his last one, and to remove this threat against Rome, unfortunately he was assassinated just before he was about to leave.

Tat Cmpaign circled the Black sea and was intended for middle eastern nations as much as the scythians, whom weren't part of the major barbarian incursions hundreds of years later, as I recall.

[Gods_Mercenary]

But seriously what about the Cold War? When two powerful nations built up enough "firepower" to blow the world to pieces several times over. Save for the grace of God Himself, we would have too during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Just because we were lucky doesn't mean it was right. Because when to groups with superior firepower try and prove who has more power, it sometime leads to the only real way to prove it and that is through war, which is something we could not afford.

And the blow up never happened, did it? because both sides knew what would happen. Plus, this discussion is mainly directed at if one side has the firepower.

[gela]

diplomacy is for the weak, it just puts the problem on hold, and gives it to someone else later, and by then its usually grown worse. Just blow the problem away.

No it leaves us with no problem.

Preschoolers logic.

Unfortunatly, humans don't work that way.

If you 'blow your problem away'; that would make you the bad guy.
It will breed more anger, and more hatred towards you and People will band together against you.
Their combined fire power will be superior to your fire power - and because you had no diplomacy, you would have no alies.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: Anmon I don't actually believe the Americans have had any intention of really solving Iraq and Afghanistan's problems in the first place, see the building contracts not being properly supervised for instance, the only goals America had, was to remove a dictator they had set up, accomplished, secure oil supply's and contracts, accomplished, and have a military base dead smack in the middle east to launch more attacks from, also well accomplished, and for what little over 4,000 losses in 6 years, by any military handbook an over whelming success!

LOL Well, there's an inventive cop out. No matter how badly things have gone, no matter how many unintented problems have popped up, no matter how deep the quagmire we've been sucked into, simply find some positive detail and declare "overwhelming success!". Hooray, Mission Accomplished.

Quote by: Anmon They say they will reduce numbers over there, yes they may, but then they could just as easily increase them if the need arose too.

No, Anmon, they can't. With Afghanistan twisting out of control, we'd like to send more troops there, but we can't... our resources are tied up in Iraq.

Did you bother to read the link? Our military has been stretched so thin for so long it's on the verge of collapse.

Pentagon caught between exhausted US military, security in Iraq

Lower standards help Army meet recruiting goal

Military Is Ill-Prepared For Other Conflicts

Quote by: Anmon What about that plane that supposedly crashed in Pennsylvania, they found no bits of it bigger than a phone book given by one reporter, where were all the bodies? Why?

Oh bullshit. How big does this wreckage look to you?



And they did, in fact, find bodies... lots of them, or at least what was left a plane diving into the ground at over 600 mph.

.

[ShadowFox]

O, and also, as an addition to sonart's plane thing, you often say "that's not the way a normal plane crash looks" But, heres the difference. Normal planes try to make an emergency landing. the terrorists on 93 basically made it go into a dive. understand?

Yet this is off topic, so i'll stop.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: anmon Another situation easily taken care of, if your going to bring 9/11 in as not taken care of, well I dont believe Al Queda had anything to do with it, except as stooges of the CIA, that was an inside job planned for decades.

Fine, the CIA has a problem with the American people, so what do they do?
Blow away the problem using the special forces you seem to pride.

Then deal with them, you seem to believe that these guys are hard to beat, but their not, all most of them have are a lot of 3rd rate weapons and lots of macho thugs, the only reason their still in power is because there allowed to be.

So all the conflict going on in Iraq is mere coincidence? We got rid of the dictator, and "the only reason they're still in power is because they're allowed to be".
Iraq proves that eliminating the dictator doesn't solve all the problems. It creates a power vacuum.