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Technosoul · Apr 2, 2008, 05:05 pm

The Republican canidate MaCain was born in Panama and not in the USA which brings a question to bear, does he meet the Consitutional requirement for being a President?

His parents are (were) citizens and he was born on a Navel base in Panama, which at that time was "a territory" of the U.S.

What do you think? How would you interpert the Consitution relative to his situation?

(as far as I know he never had a "green card").

Domino · Apr 2, 2008, 05:22 pm

Anyone born to an American citizen is an American citizen, regardless of where they are born.

Chancellor · Apr 2, 2008, 05:23 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Domino

Anyone born to an American citizen is an American citizen, regardless of where they are born.

It's no different than if he had been born on a Navy base in some other country or if his parents had been Americans working in an American embassy in some other country.

Technosoul · Apr 2, 2008, 07:08 pm

Okay, as long as he does not sing "born in the USA".

Not sure what is written on the birth certificate?

This would mean that children born in the U.S.A. are not citizens if their partents are citizens of Mexico, etc.
Right?

Or can we make exceptions for that standard depending upon who you are?

Domino · Apr 2, 2008, 09:41 pm

Nay: the other way to be a natural-born American is to be born on American land.

tivodan1116 · Apr 2, 2008, 09:47 pm

Holy crap, this again???????????/

Does anyone know how to use the search function? This must be the fourth thread here on this.

It's a non-issue. The Constitution specifies a "natural-born citizen". That means anyone who is born a citizen. His parents were citizens, that means he was a citizen at birth.

Here's two previous threads I found simply by typing in "McCain born panama" into the search box.

Is McCain eligible to President?
McCain Won FL

Technosoul · Apr 3, 2008, 12:08 am

Quote:

Quote by: tivodan1116

Holy crap, this again???????????/

Does anyone know how to use the search function? This must be the fourth thread here on this.

It's a non-issue. The Constitution specifies a "natural-born citizen". That means anyone who is born a citizen. His parents were citizens, that means he was a citizen at birth.

Here's two previous threads I found simply by typing in "McCain born panama" into the search box.

Is McCain eligible to President?
McCain Won FL

Almost every good topic has more then one thread about it. Anyway they aired that as a new story on CNN today and I did not see any current stories about it of late posted here.

So is a natural born Mexican baby with parents form Mexico a citizen of USA if he is born on our soil? Is a United States baby with parents from the USA a citizen of Panama if he is born on their soil? The answer should be the same for both cases.

We cannot interpret things two different ways.

Domino · Apr 3, 2008, 12:42 am

Quote:

So is a natural born Mexican baby with parents form Mexico a citizen of USA if he is born on our soil?

Yes: you may have heard the term "anchor baby".

"Natural-born citizen" is defined however American law specifies; we can have it both ways.

Technosoul · Apr 3, 2008, 01:09 am

Quote:

Quote by: Domino

Yes: you may have heard the term "anchor baby".

"Natural-born citizen" is defined however American law specifies; we can have it both ways.

I don't get it, what is the difference between a Natural-born citizen and a baby born by people from Mexico. don't they have natural births also?

If a Mexican baby born here is a citizen here, then a McCain born in Mexico would be a citizen there. So what makes that logic suddenly not logical?

Or do the parents the right to pick what country they want their baby to be a citizen of if they cross a boarder?

Domino · Apr 3, 2008, 03:01 am

Quote:

So what makes that logic suddenly not logical?

If you always expect logic from the law, you will often be disappointed.

That said, the logic here is fairly simple: Anyone born on American soil is an American, but it would really suck if an American's kid wasn't considered an American, just because his parents were traveling abroad, at the time, so let's call them Americans, too.

If the kid gets born on the way, are you going to call him a native of the ocean or sky, depending on the mode of transport? Perhaps a native of the Carnival Fantasy, or Delta Flight 377?

caphis · Apr 3, 2008, 07:07 am

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

I don't get it, what is the difference between a Natural-born citizen and a baby born by people from Mexico. don't they have natural births also?

If a Mexican baby born here is a citizen here, then a McCain born in Mexico would be a citizen there. So what makes that logic suddenly not logical?

Or do the parents the right to pick what country they want their baby to be a citizen of if they cross a boarder?

If a child is born to two American citizens, the child is an American citizen, no matter where he or she is born.

If a child is born on American soil, the child is an American citizen, regardless of the citizenship of the parents.

Depending on Panama's laws (a cursory Google didn't turn up anything useful), McCain could also be a citizen of Panama.

tivodan1116 · Apr 3, 2008, 10:51 am

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

I don't get it, what is the difference between a Natural-born citizen and a baby born by people from Mexico. don't they have natural births also?

If a Mexican baby born here is a citizen here, then a McCain born in Mexico would be a citizen there. So what makes that logic suddenly not logical?

Or do the parents the right to pick what country they want their baby to be a citizen of if they cross a boarder?

The difference is that Mexican (or Panamanian, or whatever) citizenship is wholly dependent on the laws of Mexico. If they make a law that says only people born with brown eyes can be citizens, so be it...

McCain might also be a citizen of Panama, he might not, but that does not make a difference.

Our Constitution specifies that the President must be a "natural-born" citizen. That means either that the person was born on U.S. soil (regardless of their parents) or that the person was born somewhere in the world to parents who are U.S. citizens. "Natural-born" means citizen at birth and those are the rules we have set that make someone a citizen at birth, period.

As I said, it is a complete non-issue.

grandpa · Apr 3, 2008, 01:54 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tivodan1116

The difference is that Mexican (or Panamanian, or whatever) citizenship
is wholly dependent on the laws of Mexico.
If they make a law that says only people born
with brown eyes can be citizens, so be it...

That would be ominous, to say the least.

Grandpa h.

Apeman81 · Apr 3, 2008, 05:12 pm

This question is not being asked by anyone worth listening to.
Moronic.
I guess these fellows don't understand that a U.S. Military, despite it's worldwide location, is U.S. Territory.

Technosoul · Apr 4, 2008, 12:59 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Domino

If you always expect logic from the law, you will often be disappointed.

That said, the logic here is fairly simple: Anyone born on American soil is an American, but it would really suck if an American's kid wasn't considered an American, just because his parents were traveling abroad, at the time, so let's call them Americans, too.

If the kid gets born on the way, are you going to call him a native of the ocean or sky, depending on the mode of transport? Perhaps a native of the Carnival Fantasy, or Delta Flight 377?

If someone comes here from Mexico to work and they have a baby, should they not still be concidered citizens of Mexico, rather then citizens of the USA?

You forgot to answer that part of the question.

Jaaaman · Apr 4, 2008, 01:18 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

The Republican canidate MaCain was born in Panama and not in the USA which brings a question to bear, does he meet the Consitutional requirement for being a President?

His parents are (were) citizens and he was born on a Navel base in Panama, which at that time was "a territory" of the U.S.

What do you think? How would you interpert the Consitution relative to his situation?

(as far as I know he never had a "green card").

I think this is kind of a silly question. Of couse he should be considered a citizen of the United States. He was born on a US Naval Base in a US territory. Our law states that makes him a US citizen. There is no question here.

Domino · Apr 4, 2008, 02:46 pm

Quote:

If someone comes here from Mexico to work and they have a baby, should they not still be concidered citizens of Mexico, rather then citizens of the USA?

The parents are citizens of Mexico, the kid is a citizen of the USA.

caphis · Apr 4, 2008, 05:12 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

If someone comes here from Mexico to work and they have a baby, should they not still be concidered citizens of Mexico, rather then citizens of the USA?

You forgot to answer that part of the question.

The parents are citizens of Mexico until they apply for, and receive, US citizenship.

The baby is a citizen of the US because he/she was born on US soil. The baby may also be a citizen of Mexico, depending on Mexico's laws.

Technosoul · Apr 4, 2008, 05:23 pm

It sounds like we have no absolute guidelines for citizenship at an international level.

Heck, the people who wrote the Consitution were not even legal citizens based on birth rights, only Native Americans could have become our President legally.

guitars_are_fly · Apr 4, 2008, 06:00 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

It sounds like we have no absolute guidelines for citizenship at an international level.

Heck, the people who wrote the Consitution were not even legal citizens based on birth rights, only Native Americans could have become our President legally.

Much to the contrary! The Framers of the Constitution were alive when the nation was founded around, say, July 4, 1776. They were "born and naturalized" citizens of the nation they created.

The Constitution clearly defines citizenship, then clarifies it in the Fourteenth Amendment: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." By that logic, a child born on U.S. soil (or U.S. territories -- protectorates, districts, etc.), as well as a child born to parents who are American citizens will become (conceivably) "naturalized" in (that is, "to") the United States. They are, in "nature," American citizens.

The argument for McCain's citizenship is absolutely ridiculous. He was born to US parents on a US territory (a naval base, by chance). To define citizenship otherwise, consider that the District of Columbia is not a state per se. Is a child born in Washington D.C. a citizen of the US?

Apr 2, 2008, 05:05 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	McCain's citizenship is in question. The Republican canidate MaCain was born in Panama and not in the USA which brings a question to bear, does he meet the Consitutional requirement for being a President? His parents are (were) citizens and he was born on a Navel base in Panama, which at that time was "a territory" of the U.S. What do you think? How would you interpert the Consitution relative to his situation? (as far as I know he never had a "green card").

Apr 2, 2008, 05:22 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Domino I'm a pushover Posts: 344	Anyone born to an American citizen is an American citizen, regardless of where they are born. kill President attack nuclear bomb smuggle Echelon just recorded this message.

Apr 2, 2008, 09:41 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Domino I'm a pushover Posts: 344	Nay: the other way to be a natural-born American is to be born on American land. kill President attack nuclear bomb smuggle Echelon just recorded this message.

Apr 2, 2008, 09:47 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
tivodan1116 Juris Doctor Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 2,127	Holy crap, this again???????????/ Does anyone know how to use the search function? This must be the fourth thread here on this. It's a non-issue. The Constitution specifies a "natural-born citizen". That means anyone who is born a citizen. His parents were citizens, that means he was a citizen at birth. Here's two previous threads I found simply by typing in "McCain born panama" into the search box. Is McCain eligible to President? McCain Won FL Don't forget... Lawyers were writing the Constitution while doctors were still bleeding people with leeches...

Apr 2, 2008, 07:08 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Okay, as long as he does not sing "born in the USA". Not sure what is written on the birth certificate? This would mean that children born in the U.S.A. are not citizens if their partents are citizens of Mexico, etc. Right? Or can we make exceptions for that standard depending upon who you are?

Apr 3, 2008, 05:12 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Apeman81 Hot Lava Posts: 1,302	This question is not being asked by anyone worth listening to. Moronic. I guess these fellows don't understand that a U.S. Military, despite it's worldwide location, is U.S. Territory.

Apr 4, 2008, 05:23 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	It sounds like we have no absolute guidelines for citizenship at an international level. Heck, the people who wrote the Consitution were not even legal citizens based on birth rights, only Native Americans could have become our President legally.