User Tag List

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 12 of 66

Thread: Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?

  1. #1
    Left Foot righthand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Co.Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    384
    Threads
    48
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?

    Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?
    Liberalism can’t abide conservative evangelicals.

    In the United States, the two groups that most ardently support Israel are Jews and evangelical and fundamentalist Christians. Jewish support is easy to explain, but why should certain Christians, most of them politically quite conservative, be so devoted to Israel? There is a second puzzle: despite their support for a Jewish state, evangelical and fundamentalist Christians are disliked by many Jews. And a third: a large fraction of African-Americans are hostile to Israel and critical of Jews, yet Jewish voters regard blacks as their natural allies.

    The evidence about evangelical attitudes is clear. In 2006, a Pew survey found that evangelical Christians were more favourable toward Israel than the average American was—and much more sympathetic than either mainline Protestants or secularists. In another survey, evangelical Christians proved much likelier than Catholics, Protestants, or secular types to back Israeli control of Jerusalem, endorse Israeli settlements on the West Bank, and take Israel’s side in a Middle Eastern dispute. (Among every religious group, those who are most traditional are most supportive of Israel. The most orthodox Catholics and Protestants, for instance, support Israel more than their modernist colleagues do.)

    Evangelical Christians have a high opinion not just of the Jewish state but of Jews as people. That Jewish voters are overwhelmingly liberal doesn’t seem to bother evangelicals, despite their own conservative politics. Yet Jews don’t return the favour: in one Pew survey, 42% of Jewish respondents expressed hostility to evangelicals and fundamentalists. As two scholars from Baruch College have shown, a much smaller fraction—about 16%—of the American public has similarly antagonistic feelings toward Christian fundamentalists.
    Winter 2008 Vol.18 No.1

    The reason that conservative Christians—opposed to abortion and gay marriage and critical of political liberalism—can feel kindly toward Jewish liberals and support Israel so fervently is rooted in theology. One finds among fundamentalist Protestants a doctrine called dispensationalism. The dispensationalist outlook, which began in early-nineteenth-century England, sees human history as a series of seven periods, or dispensations, in each of which God deals with man in a distinctive way. The first, before Adam’s fall, was the era of innocence; the second, from Adam to Noah, the era of conscience; the third, from Noah to Abraham, of government; the fourth, from Abraham to Moses, of patriarchy; the fifth, from Moses to Jesus, of Mosaic law; and the sixth, from Jesus until today, of grace. The seventh and final dispensation, yet to come, will be the Millennium, an earthly paradise.

    For dispensationalists, the Jews are God’s chosen people. For the Millennium to come, they must be living in Israel, whose capital is Jerusalem; there, the Temple will rise again at the time of Armageddon. On the eve of that final battle, the Antichrist will appear—probably in the form of a seeming peacemaker. Fundamentalists differ over who the Antichrist will be (at one time he was thought to be Nero, at another time the papacy, and today a few have suggested the secretary-general of the UN), but dispensationalists agree that he will deceive the people, occupy the Temple, rule in the name of God, and ultimately be defeated by the Messiah. Many dispensationalists believe that how a person treats Israel will profoundly influence his eternal destiny.



  2. #2
    Throttled Member Nono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    11,653
    Threads
    361
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The answer is in the last paragraph of your linked article. These "Christian" wackjobs view Israel as a means to an end. It isn't that they 'like Jews' -- they don't.

    Conservative Christians—opposed to abortion and gay marriage and critical of political liberalism—can feel kindly toward Jewish liberals.
    They can? I doubt it. They support Israel, not Jews, and sure as hell not liberal Jews.

    Jews, on the other hand, have a history of support for liberal public policy in the US, and elsewhere. They therefore undestandably have no use for a gang of redneck zealots.

    And if American Jews are historically sympathetic to the cause of American Blacks, that's probably also because of the bigotry they themselves have faced.

    "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything."
    -- Viscount Melbourne

  3. #3
    Skeptical believer nm420's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    da UP, Michigan
    Posts
    284
    Threads
    6
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?
    I'm going out on a limb here, but perhaps because its obvious to the casual observer that these Christians treat the Jews like pawns in their spiritual chess game? That is, as far as my understanding goes anyhow, their support for Israel hinges almost solely on their belief that the reemergence of the Jewish state will help to bring about the end times. This so-called "love" for Israel is entirely phony; rather it is a love for the fulfilment of revelational prophecies. I know I'd feel more than a little sore about such support.

    nm420

    "In this age, the mere example of nonconformity, the mere refusal to bend the knee to custom, is itself a service. --John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

  4. #4
    blasphemer grandpa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    20,678
    Threads
    596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Quote by: nm420 View Post
    I'm going out on a limb here, but perhaps because
    its obvious to the casual observer that these Christians treat
    the Jews like pawns in their spiritual chess game?
    That is, as far as my understanding goes anyhow, their
    support for Israel hinges almost solely on their belief that
    the reemergence of the Jewish state will help to bring
    about the end times.
    In any case, they're gambling with people's lives.

    Grandpa h.

    Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.

  5. #5
    Left Foot righthand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Co.Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    384
    Threads
    48
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Quote by: Nono View Post
    The answer is in the last paragraph of your linked article. These "Christian" wackjobs view Israel as a means to an end. It isn't that they 'like Jews' -- they don't.
    True but difficult for many to discern what they are truly meant to believe with the mixed message.
    Quote Quote by: Nono View Post
    They can? I doubt it. They support Israel, not Jews, and sure as hell not liberal Jews.
    So America got the liberal intelligent Jews, Israel belatedly got the dregs of Europe including Russia and the wackjobs are to support the Israeli state! Even more complicated for simple wackos!
    Quote Quote by: Nono View Post
    Jews, on the other hand, have a history of support for liberal public policy in the US, and elsewhere. They therefore understandably have no use for a gang of redneck zealots.
    What about the redneck zealots in Israel in their extraordinary garb that make Muslims look positively modern?
    Quote Quote by: Nono View Post
    And if American Jews are historically sympathetic to the cause of American Blacks, that's probably also because of the bigotry they themselves have faced.
    True.


  6. #6
    Left Foot righthand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Co.Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    384
    Threads
    48
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Quote by: nm420 View Post
    This so-called "love" for Israel is entirely phony; rather it is a love for the fulfilment of revelational prophecies. I know I'd feel more than a little sore about such support.
    Agreed and if you were smart liberal Jew would you have trust into the future when you see some of the racial difficulties there are?

    If I were a liberal American Jew I'd sleep better after a black person had served the full four years as president. And if I was a liberal Jew I'd prefer if the so called Christians really believed in Jesus Christ and not some retributionist and revelation prophecy rubbish, none of which has ever come true, but is encouraged by the Zionists for their own ends. Complicated!


  7. #7
    Throttled Member Nono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    11,653
    Threads
    361
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Quote by: righthand
    What about the redneck zealots in Israel in their extraordinary garb that make Muslims look positively modern?
    It's a problem for enlightened American Jews, admittedly. There's at least one example on this board (I won't name him since I'm not 100% certain). He's liberal, decent, very well informed -- certainly no redneck. And he can see both sides of the Palestine issue. But he just can't quite free himself of that tribal allegiance, and ends up being lopsidedly pro-Israel, meaning that he somehow always finds a way of justifying Israeli conduct, or at least throwing up his hands and blaming it all on the Arabs.

    I can see why it isn't easy.

    "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything."
    -- Viscount Melbourne

  8. #8
    It's only logical Sonart's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    8,097
    Threads
    22
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    .

    Quote Quote by: Nono
    He's liberal, decent, very well informed -- certainly no redneck.
    Dang, why are my ears burning like this...?

    Oh!

    Just for the record, Nono, I was was raised a Methodist - sorta - but converted to devout atheism around age 20. Different tribe altogether.

    Quote Quote by: Nono
    But he just can't quite free himself of that tribal allegiance, and ends up being lopsidedly pro-Israel, meaning that he somehow always finds a way of justifying Israeli conduct, or at least throwing up his hands and blaming it all on the Arabs.
    As to this, I'm not all that one sided. It's just that for all the claims and counter-claims of tit for tat, I've come to a firm conclusion that, all things considered, one side bears more blame for the endless brutality than the other.

    I compare it somewhat to the Balkans conflict. Serbs constantly insisted that the Croatians, Bosnians and Kosovars were all guilty of their own share of atrocities during the conflict. Which is indisputably true. But in the end one had to concede that the vast majority of atrocities were initiated and committed by the Serbs, and make an overall judgment accordingly.

    So it is with Israel/Palestine. Yes, the Israeli's have behaved inexcusably in many instances. But with all the factors added and subtracted, the bottom line remains that Israel, over the last 60 years, has been defending their existence against constant aggression and that whatever misery the Palestinians are suffering, in the overall span of history, they brought it upon themselves.

    Were it possible for a discussion to take place here regarding whether or not the Israelis have -- regardless of anyone else -- behaved badly, I'd certainly agree that they have. But that conversation seems illusive. It always seems to come down to the evil Israelis versus the poor, poor Palestinians, and given everything I've just written, that's simply not a measure of the scales that I can agree with.

    .

    I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

  9. #9
    Throttled Member Nono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    11,653
    Threads
    361
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    An amazing example of synchonicity this thread.

    "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything."
    -- Viscount Melbourne

  10. #10
    It's only logical Sonart's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    8,097
    Threads
    22
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    .

    Quote Quote by: Nono
    The answer is in the last paragraph of your linked article. These "Christian" wackjobs view Israel as a means to an end. It isn't that they 'like Jews' -- they don't.
    This is my understanding as well. Many fundamentalist Christians support Israel because the existance of Israel plays a vitally important part in the prophesies of Revelations and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, which they see as right around the corner. Israel and all the ongoing turmoil surrounding them play right into the prophecies of Armageddon, which, being devout true-believers, the Religious Right is eagerly awaiting.


    .

    I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

  11. #11
    Left Foot righthand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Co.Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    384
    Threads
    48
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Quote by: Sonart View Post
    . Dang, why are my ears burning like this...?

    I compare it somewhat to the Balkans conflict. Serbs constantly insisted that the Croatians, Bosnians and Kosovars were all guilty of their own share of atrocities during the conflict. Which is indisputably true. But in the end one had to concede that the vast majority of atrocities were initiated and committed by the Serbs, and make an overall judgement accordingly.

    So it is with Israel/Palestine. Yes, the Israeli's have behaved inexcusably in many instances. But with all the factors added and subtracted, the bottom line remains that Israel, over the last 60 years, has been defending their existence against constant aggression and that whatever misery the Palestinians are suffering, in the overall span of history, they brought it upon themselves.
    Extraordinary. With this logic the next step would that the Jews were responsible for the holocaust!!! Having done a reasonably summary of the Balkans and arrived at the conclusion that the Serbs were the aggressors, this same person comes to the conclusion that the victim, the Arabs are at fault. Now I see what Nono predicted earlier with...
    But he just can't quite free himself of that tribal allegiance, and ends up being lopsidedly pro-Israel, meaning that he somehow always finds a way of justifying Israeli conduct, or at least throwing up his hands and blaming it all on the Arabs.
    Thankfully the majority of American Jew and quite a deal of non-settler Israelites do not hold his view. True that the world does view Americans now as fascist fundamentalist rednecks because of Bush but that would be to misjudge the true position.

    Turncoats often feel that they have to try harder to prove themselves in their public utterances so they are never trusted by either side. Being on a Zionist forum probably means that he has to try harder to be accepted. Having no god allegiances allows me the luxury of thinking for myself.

    Zionist Murder Rate of Arabs Below Target


  12. #12
    Liberal Conservative
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    3,558
    Threads
    300
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Quote by: righthand
    Extraordinary. With this logic the next step would that the Jews were responsible for the holocaust!!! Having done a reasonably summary of the Balkans and arrived at the conclusion that the Serbs were the aggressors, this same person comes to the conclusion that the victim, the Arabs are at fault. Now I see what Nono predicted earlier with...
    Well Arabs like Serbs were the most aggressive from the beginning .It was Arab aggression in beginning of the conflict that lead to creation of Jewish self defense groups. They played pivotal role in creation of Jewish state. So Arabs again could blame only themselves for turning to violence again and again.
    That how it started:
    Jaffa riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    And that how it continued



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •