Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?

[Nono]

Yeah, I remember in his memoirs the Canadian writer Farley Mowat telling about how, when he was an infantry officer fighting the Germans in WWII, he gets this letter from his father telling him about how many people were complaining about Jews making a mint from wartime rationing scams back home. Doubtless some Jews did do that -- along with a lot of good Presbyterians -- but people always need an identifiable scapegoat, don't they?

You won't get an argument out of me against Zionism as such. But you will get one against an Israeli policy not to cede an inch of Biblical Greater Israel under any circumstances. Against an Israeli government hopelessly bullied by the expansionist right, even though 50% of Israeli voters favour a land-for-peace deal.

The nuts on both sides need to have their heads knocked together but good. Only the US can do this. But unfortunately the Jewish and Evangelist lobbies -- together with the neocons -- make sure that not one critical word goes unpunished. Anything that is not fulsome praise of Israel is deemed criticism. And that means political suicide (see Howard Dean calling for an "evenhanded" approach -- instant death).

Therefore we'll go on and on and on and on and on.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Nono Yeah, I remember in his memoirs the Canadian writer Farley Mowat telling about how, when he was an infantry officer fighting the Germans in WWII, he gets this letter from his father telling him about how many people were complaining about Jews making a mint from wartime rationing scams back home. Doubtless some Jews did do that -- along with a lot of good Presbyterians -- but people always need an identifiable scapegoat, don't they?

I did some reserach. David Duke, the racist Presidential candidate of a number of years ago, noted how 300 Jews and only 13 ethnic Russians made up the 384 members of the first Bolshevik government. He claimed this is ignored because of Jewish dominance in media. So, for some, it isn't only a "red scare," but a "Jewish red scare." Of course, Duke no doubt overlooks how not all Jews were Bolshevik, just like not all Christians would claim to be of the "religious right" or in the Klan.

Of course, if you wanted you could start any scapegoating cult online. Someone can always reach your site and believe practically anything you say. You can look to virtually any group and say, "They are thieves! They are murderers!"

Grandpa h.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: Nono The nuts on both sides need to have their heads knocked together but good. Only the US can do this. But unfortunately the Jewish and Evangelist lobbies -- together with the neocons -- make sure that not one critical word goes unpunished. Anything that is not fulsome praise of Israel is deemed criticism. And that means political suicide (see Howard Dean calling for an "evenhanded" approach -- instant death).

And there's the rub... on this board, the exact opposite it true. Anything less than full-throated condemnation of Israel as the source of all worldly evil is considered racist, Zionist propaganda.

Made only worse by the fact that many of the debaters here -- present company certainly excepted -- seem to believe that inserting the word 'Zionist' covers up their inate hatred of Jews, which, when even slightly goaded, they are hard pressed to conceal.

Witness our friend who, after denouncing a simple time-line of well recorded events as 'Jewish propaganda', announces that he became convinced that Jews were responsible for the Holocaust after reading a link by some radical, Jewish fundamentalist who declared that the Holocaust as God's punishment of Jews because Zionists had broken some Talmudic caution not to return to Israel before God gave his go ahead.

Yup, there's some objective reasoning for you.

I'll concede that your appraisal of the Israel lobby in Washington, and the resulting pro-Israel policy, is dead on. My opinions on the issue, however, are no more a result of that lobby than are any of my other opinions on this board. The are my own conclusions, based on my understanding of history, and that understanding is that, for all of Israel's faults, the Palestinian Arabs -- and their Arab "friends"-- have mostly brought their problems on themselves. So they can either decide to choose peace, or they can choose to keep aggravating Israel and making their own situation worse.

And decrying the overwhelming misery of the innocent Palestinians compared to Israelis gains little sympathy from me. During WWII, our bombing of Japanese and German cities was wiping out 100,000 innocent Japanese and German civilians at a pop. No one seemed concerned about the "proportionality" or barbarity then, only that we were justified in using whatever means to defeat the offending regimes who had started the war, and that their overwhelming misery was justified for as long as it took.

Likewise with the fairness of establishing Israel in the first place. Unless you're in favor of returning Texas to Mexico, Israel is a done deal... get over it. At least Israel, compared to Texas and most of the U.S., was legitimized by the United Nations.

-------------------------------------------------------

To the topic, since our thread-parent would complain that all this is off-topic, and indeed, it is. But the actual topic -- that Jews don't get along with the Christian fundamentalists who support Israel -- is simply a troll. It's silly flamebait designed to make Jews look ungrateful while ignoring the self-serving reason for that Christian support.

.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: Grandpa Of course, Duke no doubt overlooks how not all Jews were Bolshevik, just like not all Christians would claim to be of the "religious right" or in the Klan.

He also overlooks the fact that the large Russian Jewish population had, for centuries, been oppressed by the Russian nobility, and that in a revolution to overturn that repressive system, it would be perfectly natural that educated Jews would leap into the effort to make Marx's dreams of egalitarian society a reality.

Set aside the hindsight of what Leninism and Stalinism would become, under which Jews suffered as much or more.
.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Sonart . He also overlooks the fact that the large Russian Jewish population had, for centuries, been oppressed by the Russian nobility, and that in a revolution to overturn that repressive system, it would be perfectly natural that educated Jews would leap into the effort to make Marx's dreams of egalitarian society a reality. Set aside the hindsight of what Leninism and Stalinism would become, under which Jews suffered as much or more.

True, but David Duke isn't exactly a genius, and he's fallen out of favor with Republicans since his candidacy (much to my surprise). I wonder what the Duke-dupes would say if white, Christian males in Washington had overturned "the revolution" in Cuba and "reestablish capitalism." Would he be foaming at the mouth over it, or would he also blame that on the Jews?

I've encountered an even more fascinating theory that insurance-money-scamming Jews set fire to their own property during the Civil Rights riots of the 1960s, blaming it on blacks. Of course, I've never seen evidence justifying this theory, but that's the point. The effect of such views is to not inspire us to seek evidence, but to mock "minority groups." I suppose in some ways it's a step up from merely chanting racist slogans, but not by much.
Some people are well aware of the opportunism behind history; the reality of it. There was a time when "mainstream America" was very anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic. This is true of narcissistic collectives the world over.

Grandpa h.

[Century 25]

Ahh.. ya know, war(s) - politics.. etc.. oft times make for strange bedfellows. Not long ago Saddam was a great friend of ours.. And how many centuries have the christians & jews been at each others throats..

So now we have a common denominator: $$$ And so the union of the gold diggers & diamond merchants is a "go" - Alas.. tomorrow or next week.. it may all unravel..

Easy come.. easy go.. life goes on..