I am Canadian - Does the US own me?

[triad]

I've been having all sorts of scary revelations lately. Some I have taken seriously, others I just laughed off because I went a little far. One that has haunted me the last couple of days is the fact that Canada is just as significant as Iraq in the eyes of the USA.

What I mean by this is the US controls over sixty percent of Canadian oil... and that number continues to grow every year.

What would happen if, as Canadians, we decided to gain that control back. What if we wanted to better prepare our selves for the future by saving our resources?


I'll give you a hint, look at Iraq. The USA now controls a huge portion of their oil... how did they get that? Let's just say a World Might Destruct if excuses are made to... make your way the only way.


If we cut off our supply to the states TODAY, we would face economic setbacks, but we would do alright. Would we see US troops TOMORROW?

If you put a lot of thought into this, it is really not that far-fetched. As long as Canada complies to the US, through selling our very country to them, a war is just a dream. If the Canadian government begins to stand up for itself and take back what it has sold out, it becomes a reality.

[lsbskins1]

No, I think you would be safe. It would be hard to convince all those lost, lonely souls who find it easy to hate "Muslims" (because the vast majority of them do not look like them) to want to kill Canadians. They would probably just call you names, like they do to the French. They would think you stupid for not seeing that "America is always right", but they wouldn't have the stones to want to kill you, so no war.

[Stizzles]

If we cut off our supply to the states TODAY, we would face economic setbacks, but we would do alright. Would we see US troops TOMORROW?

No, but you'd arbitrarily piss off your biggest trading partner in the world, cutting off mutually beneficial exchange for the sake of spiting the U.S.

Stupid move.

They'd raise tariffs on Canadian imports in return (tit-for-tat being the most successful strategy in game theory). Mercantilist trade wars benefit nobody.

[lsbskins1]

See, they just think you stupid. Calling you playground names comes next.

[Stizzles]

See, they just think you stupid. Calling you playground names comes next.

Ceasing trade with the U.S. has no benefit and huge costs. Under what value system is this a smart move?

[Charlatan]

Quote by: triad I've been having all sorts of scary revelations lately. Some I have taken seriously, others I just laughed off because I went a little far. One that has haunted me the last couple of days is the fact that Canada is just as significant as Iraq in the eyes of the USA. What I mean by this is the US controls over sixty percent of Canadian oil... and that number continues to grow every year. What would happen if, as Canadians, we decided to gain that control back. What if we wanted to better prepare our selves for the future by saving our resources? I'll give you a hint, look at Iraq. The USA now controls a huge portion of their oil... how did they get that? Let's just say a World Might Destruct if excuses are made to... make your way the only way. If we cut off our supply to the states TODAY, we would face economic setbacks, but we would do alright. Would we see US troops TOMORROW? If you put a lot of thought into this, it is really not that far-fetched. As long as Canada complies to the US, through selling our very country to them, a war is just a dream. If the Canadian government begins to stand up for itself and take back what it has sold out, it becomes a reality.

If you stopped trading oil with America you would stop recieveing funds for selling it to them. Do you need the oil? They clearly do, so leaving them to trade money for resources is a good idea. You have a resource, they have money to boost your economy. Who taxes the oil? You do, so you are scoring there too, they are basically eating out of your hand, so who owns who?

[sulluvun31315]

I do not believe that there would be war. We are not to the point (yet) where we could dehumanize Canadians enough to go to war with our neighbors over oil. What if there was a Canadian terrorist act? What it some major building was bombed by a Canadian terrorist? Whose to say what would happen then?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Theres no doubt we would liberate the SHIT out of that oil, lol.
I'm not really too sure. I mean, no offense or anything man, but its Canada. You've got Hockey, Maple Syrup, RUSH (thanks for that by the way) um... Mooses? And, uh, snow?

Okay, I see your point; you ain't gotta lot going for you...

....then agian, America's obesity problem is growing; we could use the extra room....Hmm...

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: triad I've been having all sorts of scary revelations lately. Some I have taken seriously, others I just laughed off because I went a little far. One that has haunted me the last couple of days is the fact that Canada is just as significant as Iraq in the eyes of the USA.

This is one of the revelations you should have just laughed off.

[Chaossaber314]

What would happen if, as Canadians, we decided to gain that control back. What if we wanted to better prepare our selves for the future by saving our resources?

Can Canada even realistically afford to do that?

I think some Canadians subconsciously desire an invasion or something equally terrible to justify their beliefs about the big bad USA.

[triad]

Quote by: lsbskins1 No, I think you would be safe. It would be hard to convince all those lost, lonely souls who find it easy to hate "Muslims" (because the vast majority of them do not look like them) to want to kill Canadians. They would probably just call you names, like they do to the French. They would think you stupid for not seeing that "America is always right", but they wouldn't have the stones to want to kill you, so no war.

I think I worded it wrong... not a full out war, but by means of reasonable force... would the USA be willing to take back what Canada cuts off? We need our resources for ourselves too... especially if something dramatic happens. We can't keep pawning it all off at discount prices... our royalties are tiny, and we should be capitalizing on our own product more.

Quote by: Stizzles No, but you'd arbitrarily piss off your biggest trading partner in the world, cutting off mutually beneficial exchange for the sake of spiting the U.S. Stupid move. They'd raise tariffs on Canadian imports in return (tit-for-tat being the most successful strategy in game theory). Mercantilist trade wars benefit nobody.

We'd piss you off because we want to restore our nation's security? By security I mean not give away every last resource for mere pennies (exaggeration). As Canadians we are push-overs... we're like the eager 16 year old that wants to buy their first vehicle. We don't think before we act, we just take the first offer. I am saying what if Canada were to smarten up and reap in some rewards for having the shittier half of the continent. How are the beaches down there? Ours are f'n frozen.

Quote by: Stizzles Ceasing trade with the U.S. has no benefit and huge costs. Under what value system is this a smart move?

The, "Lets not screw ourselves over for the future" value system.

Quote by: Charlatan If you stopped trading oil with America you would stop recieveing funds for selling it to them. Do you need the oil?

Yes we do, and as a nation we could keep more of it and sell it to our own citizens for cheaper, giving them more money to put into the Canadian market.. strengthening our economy. Selling out our oil like cheap whores is not really the best way to recieve funds for a growing country.

They clearly do, so leaving them to trade money for resources is a good idea. You have a resource, they have money to boost your economy. Who taxes the oil? You do, so you are scoring there too, they are basically eating out of your hand, so who owns who?

They own us, when we wanted to increase our royalty rate, because they were too low (less than 30%, we should be at least around 48% - if we had brains), American investors packed up their bags and left their Canadian offices back to the US. They did that in attempt to weasel the royalties back down... do you know what this means? Americans are making more money on Canadian oil than Canadians are. Really dumb of us to do.

Quote by: sulluvun31315 I do not believe that there would be war. We are not to the point (yet) where we could dehumanize Canadians enough to go to war with our neighbors over oil. What if there was a Canadian terrorist act? What it some major building was bombed by a Canadian terrorist? Whose to say what would happen then?

I have no idea.

Quote by: Ziggy Stardust Theres no doubt we would liberate the SHIT out of that oil, lol. I'm not really too sure. I mean, no offense or anything man, but its Canada. You've got Hockey, Maple Syrup, RUSH (thanks for that by the way) um... Mooses? And, uh, snow? Okay, I see your point; you ain't gotta lot going for you... ....then agian, America's obesity problem is growing; we could use the extra room....Hmm...

Haha, we got more than that! We're just a minature USA, and just as fat!

Quote by: tivodan1116 This is one of the revelations you should have just laughed off.

LOL, maybe... try digging a little deeper though.

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Can Canada even realistically afford to do that?

Very much so. Like I said, we just whore out our resources - willingly. We could do a lot better for ourselves if we were like the IKEA of our oil, not the f'n WAL-MART.

I think some Canadians subconsciously desire an invasion or something equally terrible to justify their beliefs about the big bad USA.

Not at all. Actually, the last thing we want is an invasion. I am saying that the USA could be tempted.. if desperate... to one way or another regain control of Canadian oil.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: triad If we cut off our supply to the states TODAY, we would face economic setbacks, but we would do alright.... What would happen if, as Canadians, we decided to gain that control back...

Considering that the proposal is less likely to happen than Jesus coming back; All I will say is we Americans do not trust anyone who doesn't eat bacon. (BTW, ham is NOT bacon)

[Stizzles]

We'd piss you off because we want to restore our nation's security?

No, you'd piss us off by refusing to trade with us when we have a very strong trade relationship.

It's exactly the same as refusing to trade with black people; you're arbitrarily reducing the number of customers, which lowers demand for your goods.

By security I mean not give away every last resource for mere pennies (exaggeration).

Then charge higher prices.

As Canadians we are push-overs... we're like the eager 16 year old that wants to buy their first vehicle. We don't think before we act, we just take the first offer. I am saying what if Canada were to smarten up and reap in some rewards for having the shittier half of the continent. How are the beaches down there? Ours are f'n frozen.

"Reap the rewards" by not profiting from the sale of your products? How is that a reward?

The, "Lets not screw ourselves over for the future" value system.

How about the "suppliers provide goods and services that they voluntarily trade to the benefit of the buyer and the seller"?

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Triad Very much so. Like I said, we just whore out our resources - willingly. We could do a lot better for ourselves if we were like the IKEA of our oil, not the f'n WAL-MART.

So you guys could realistically give up 60% of your Oil sales? I'm sorry but that sounds like one of the dumbest things I've ever heard on this board.

"Hey, mind if we lay off a whole bunch of employees?"
"Why?"
"Because we don't like the US anymore and want to protect ourselves from their inevitable invasion."
"So we're going to protect ourselves from this irrational threat by pissing on them?"
"Precisely."
"Well ok then."

Not at all. Actually, the last thing we want is an invasion. I am saying that the USA could be tempted.. if desperate... to one way or another regain control of Canadian oil.

Note, I said SUBCONSCIOUS.

[thx1138]

Well you could always ship the oil to Asia, China and Japan will take up some of that slack.

But I "what if" oil was running low and it was a matter of fueling Canadian cars and homes or ones in the U.S.A.?

Sometime in the future there could be some disputes over water rights, but with the NAU you could become one happy family.

[Nono]

Quote by: Stiz ... you'd arbitrarily piss off your biggest trading partner in the world, cutting off mutually beneficial exchange ...

Says who? NAFTA is a race to the bottom, with pressure on Canadians to downgrade the things that make life so much better north of the border.

Under what value system is this a smart move?

The value system that says "We're all in this together!", a value much more prevalent north of the border than south (possibly owing to climate).

Just to take an example, Canadians introduced the first medicare system in North America (in the province next door to triad's) four and a half decades ago. People benefit from it and don't desire the law of the jungle that applies in the US.

It is, indeed, a question of values.

[Nono]

Quote by: triad If we cut off our supply to the states TODAY, we would face economic setbacks, but we would do alright. Would we see US troops TOMORROW?

Maybe not tomorrow, but soon enough. (To imagine this, you have to imagine a government not headed by lapdog-in-chief Stephen Harper.)

But as soon as the reality in the Middle East penetrates the majority of American skulls (could take a while) and as soon as the oil price goes above a certain level, there they'd be.

And they would have cooked up Imperative Grounds involving "the war on terrism" and "protecting are Freedom".

[gela]

Oil is increadibly valuble. If Canada controlls the oil, then they should use it to its full potential.
I say you should just charge more money for it. If the US stops buying, then there is still a world out their who still wants oil - you won't have to give up jobs, nor will the economy suffer.
My point is - supply and demand. Atm there is a big demand - thus you can charge more, and still have no problem selling it.

I think some Canadians subconsciously desire an invasion or something equally terrible to justify their beliefs about the big bad USA.

Think about this for a second. They want their country invaded. They want their sons and husbands to die, and they want their homes to be bombed..
To justify their hatred for USA.

[Stizzles]

But I "what if" oil was running low and it was a matter of fueling Canadian cars and homes or ones in the U.S.A.?

It wouldn't be a matter of fueling Canadian vs. US homes, it would be a matter of price effect. If oil was running low, price would go up, thus rationing the product to those most willing and able to purchase it. The nationality of those people is rather beside the point--unless we're going to engage in tribalism, of course.

Sometime in the future there could be some disputes over water rights, but with the NAU you could become one happy family.

[G. Adams]

I'm afraid I don't know the details of this case, so please inform me if I make any mistakes?

Is Candian Oil nationalised or owned privately? If private, are the owners Canadian or foreign (particularly American)? If it's privately owned by a Canadian, then it is a Candian's oil to sell to whom he wants, not Canada's. If it's owned by an American, then it is an American's oil, not America's or Canada's. If it's nationalised, then it's the Canadian governments, and by selling the oil to the US you are making them dependant, in the short term, upon your oil.

My basic point is that the oil is the property of the owner, who should be free to trade with anyone, not that of the residents of whomevers territory it resides in.

As to whether the US would invade, it is unlikely. That supply could be gained elsewhere. As to whether they should invade depends really. If you cut off an American's ability to trade oil, if he owns it, with his customers then you are trampling over an American's right to his property, and an argument for some government action is justified (though actual invasion is still extreme, other measures could be used). If the Canadian government nationalised an American's oil then you are stealing (unless of course the American agreed to it, so he sold it to you). In which case, an argument for retributive measures could well be made.